Chad D: expect a Byram trade at or around the draft

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

My man, there are a bunch of F prospects (again not all equal) in the system who are looking for opportunity with the big club.  Surely one or two has a chance.

Can't say the same about D or G (other than Levi, and this board seems resigned to keep him in Rochester).

How much does it hurt the eta to bump Consta back one year? We can take a Consta this year at 12

oh, im sorry - do we care more about the eta of prospect system depth than winning on the big club ?

My mistake 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

That's a stupid trade. Rust has mediocre defensive metrics and plays with Crosby. Helenius is a natural center... and we have to drop in the draft. It's a cap clear for Pitt. 

Trading Helenius for a 33yr old winger is dumb dumb stuff. 

Yup. Rust is a guy you add if you're making a Cup run. Not if you're trying to stop your team from sh*tting down its legs for the 15th year in a row. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

How much does it hurt the eta to bump Consta back one year? We can take one this year at 12

oh, im sorry - do we care more about the eta of prospect system depth than winning on the big club ?

My mistake 

We might be able to take a center at 12, but my guess in this draft is thats winger or defense territory. This draft might be:

1. Schaefer

2. Frondell 

3. Misa

4. Desnoyers

5. Hagens

6. Martin

7. O'Brien 

8. Martone

9. McQueen

They're talking that 7 or 8 centers will go in the first 10 picks. 

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Buffalo loses 20g from its scoring, which mean Norris is only good for the 9 more than the 11 Dylan "can't shoot for *****" Cozens got us, Buffalo would rank 16th in goals for. 

If Buffalo drops 20goals against that brings them from 3rd worst to 8th worst. Buffalo needs goal reduction badly. 

Improving from 16th in goals to 15th is the same net gain as 8th worst to 9th on D

There isn’t a cap on offence 

Some of these takes aren’t logically sound 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Helenius, I would say no.  Quinn or Rosen?  Yes. 

We are running out of positions for Quinn if we acquire Rust.

 

I look on a Rust acquisition and how it impacts Quinn a little differently. If Rust is added, then Quinn has to compete for a top two-line spot and would probably end up on a third line. Internal competition is exactly what we what want and need. And having depth and thickening the roster is the position you want to be in for a long and grinding season replete with injuries. Sliding any player down because another player earned moving up is a good situation to be in. 

[CTJoe]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Buffalo loses 20g from its scoring, which mean Norris is only good for the 9 more than the 11 Dylan "can't shoot for *****" Cozens got us, Buffalo would rank 16th in goals for. 

If Buffalo drops 20goals against that brings them from 3rd worst to 8th worst. Buffalo needs goal reduction badly. 

That's as is.  If KA adds nothing else to the forward group, he's more stupid than I already think he is. Hoping Byram is extended.  If so the D should be better than last year. Goalie is still a ?  How about:

12 and rosen for 9 and rust

Sign Ehlers

Trade UPL + soemthign small for Gibson

 

I think this roster would be better offensively, have a better defensive conscience and be better in goal. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Yup. Rust is a guy you add if you're making a Cup run. Not if you're trying to stop your team from sh*tting down its legs for the 15th year in a row. 

Rust started 62% of all his shifts and 60% of his shifts in the offensive zone. 

[SwampD]

Just bridge Byram.

[DarthEbriate]

Rust is going to look very different if he goes from Crosby or Malkin as his center to Norris or Kulich. 

Helenius is the Sabres' best center prospect. I'd say by quite a bit over Östlund. He's not untouchable, but for Rust? Hell no.

 

Edit: And from Sullivan's coaching/scheme to Ruff's, I might also add. But it's more about that he's had two HOF centers for his career.

Edited 4 hours ago by DarthEbriate

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Improving from 16th in goals to 15th is the same net gain as 8th worst to 9th on D

There isn’t a cap on offence 

Some of these takes aren’t logically sound 

The only cap on goals against is 0. 

Florida allowed 223g, Sabres allowed 287g. 

Florida scored 246g and Buffalo 265g.

We're arguing over the wrong thing. It's goal differential. Buffalo was 23 and Florida 11th. All the teams above Florida are playoff teams too. So we can either score a lot more or reduce our goals against a bunch. But our goal differential has to come down from -22

Edited 4 hours ago by LGR4GM

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

the league gives out a free Helenius to every team every year.

 

And a free Savoie and a free Rosen, too.

[dudacek]

Forton was pretty clear that they thought there was a huge equal cluster after their top 7.

The trade down is superfluous to the Sabres.

@Thorny’s right in the sense of do you want a good NHLer as he declines for the next 3 years, or a good prospect as he improves 3 years from now?

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Yup. Rust is a guy you add if you're making a Cup run. 

Or if the goal is playoffs or bust.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The only cap on goals against is 0. 

Florida allowed 223g, Sabres allowed 287g. 

Florida scored 246g and Buffalo 265g.

We're arguing over the wrong thing. It's goal differential. Buffalo was 23 and Florida 11th. All the teams above Florida are playoff teams too. So we can either score a lot more or reduce our goals against a bunch. But our goal differential has to come down from -22

Agree 

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

And a free Savoie and a free Rosen, too.

And if we can trade Rosen to get rust, do it 

but I’m not cutting off my head with another playoff miss to avoid “losing a trade”  

How many times should I say it 

actually asking:

”winning trades is the province of teams that don’t win games”

Edited 4 hours ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

we are stuck. You are stuck but I am reaching a hand to you just take it! We are *conditioned*. Winning trades is what you are conditioned to want when thinking about the future - where we’ve been stuck 

when you are good it doesn’t matter - it’s about a means to an end. Trade what you need to to get what you need 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

we are stuck. You are stuck but I am reaching a hand to you just take it! We are *conditioned*. Winning trades is what you are conditioned to want when thinking about the future - where we’ve been stuck 

when you are good it doesn’t matter - it’s about a means to an end. Trade what you need to to get what you need 

Isn't that what the Peterka trade is? A trade you dislike?

[DarthEbriate]

Hey NHL, you can announce the Isles-Habs trade anytime now. Sheevyn needs to know how the market is set before he wildly undersells a guy who would be on his team's top pair this coming season or two.

[Archie Lee]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Rust started 62% of all his shifts and 60% of his shifts in the offensive zone. 

Just for clarity, Rust started 50% of his shifts "on the fly".  Of his shifts that began with a face-off, 62% started in the o-zone. This is ok by me, as it is how I would use him with Kulich and Zucker.

My heavy d-zone, match-up, line would be McLeod, Greenway and Tuch. Three big and lengthy players who can all play solid D, two of whom can really skate, two of whom can play physical, one of whom can be nasty. 

Norris, Benson, Thompson would be line 1. This is potentially weak, but Thompson has 50 goal seasons in him I think, and Benson can take a step forward and drag them into the fight most nights.  

Krebs, Malenstyn, Doan are line 4.  Doan will hopefully make line 4 what it was intended to be a year ago. 

Rosen, Kozak, Lafferty would be the depth, with likely two of them headed to the Americans to start the year.  

Centre is not strong with Norris and McLeod both playing a line higher than ideal (Norris, to me, more so than McLeod). I also, generally, just don't think Ruff has it in him to get a team playing with the needed structure.  A good coach though, and I think it is a playoff capable group of forwards. 

[darksabre]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Or if the goal is playoffs or bust.

I don't even know if I'd bring him in for that. Just can't imagine leaning on that guy all season long and having it pay off. It's better if he gets a lighter load in the regular season on a team where that doesn't hurt, and then he can ramp up come playoff time. 

[CTJoe]

17 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Rust is going to look very different if he goes from Crosby or Malkin as his center to Norris or Kulich. 

Helenius is the Sabres' best center prospect. I'd say by quite a bit over Östlund. He's not untouchable, but for Rust? Hell no.

 

Edit: And from Sullivan's coaching/scheme to Ruff's, I might also add. But it's more about that he's had two HOF centers for his career.

Rosen has 0 goals, 1 assist and is -6 in 15 games with Buffalo.  I know it's only a handful of games, he's only 22 and he's produced decently in Rochester but I would traded Rosen for anyone at this point (certainly as a part in a Rust trade).  Some players just don't translate to the NHL.

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Isn't that what the Peterka trade is? A trade you dislike?

It absolutely would be if I felt we needed Peterka less than the two players we received but I don’t believe that to be the case. 

As I said, to you yesterday,  I HATE the trade and it’s not because I can’t foresee a situation where the players we got actually serve the team better: it’s possible 

it’s the principle. I KNOW money was a factor. I KNOW we didn’t fully prioritize winning, now. I refuse to back down from that: I believe fully in my heart of hearts that the team, while not owing us a winner, owes us their best effort to win.

after 15 years, I mean if no one will stand by me on that, I’m convicted and obsessive enough to do it myself 

but the line must be drawn here

THIS far

No further 

Edited 4 hours ago by Thorny

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I HATE the trade and it’s not because I can’t foresee a situation where the players we got actually serve the team better

I can't agree or disagree with this, but would you agree that Kesselring plays a POSITION more important than Peterka's?

[Thorny]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Forton was pretty clear that they thought there was a huge equal cluster after their top 7.

The trade down is superfluous to the Sabres.

@Thorny’s right in the sense of do you want a good NHLer as he declines for the next 3 years, or a good prospect as he improves 3 years from now?

Thank you for using “superfluous” and thank you for spinning it that way because that’s an excellent way to look at it. 

what do we want to be. Are we trying to maximize the now, or are we happy saying our best days are ahead of us 

What are you happy with? 

Everyone can ask themselves 

I’m tired of giving ourselves the caveat that it’s “not really our time”. Never will be, till we make it so by choice 

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Or if the goal is playoffs or bust.

The question is: What is bust? Does anyone truly believe that Adams believes that he'll be fired if the Sabres don't make the playoffs this year?

 

The team is on a Power/Levi mid-to-late 20s timeline. Ruff will be retired, the assistant coaches will be able to be renewed or let go, and Appert will take over behind the bench. But Adams?

[Archie Lee]

On Rust, I might be wrong on this, but I think he has a partial NTC through June 30th and it comes off July 1.  So, unless we aren't on the list or he outright waives his NTC, a trade might not be an option until July 1.  Again, I might be wrong.