Sabres announce Don Granato, Jason Christie and Matt Smith have been relieved of their duties

[In The Buff]

Lindy Ruff to me seems like the low hanging fruit TP would sign off on, with the goal to appease a restless disinterested fan base. I can see that conversation playing out & hiring Lindy on its own would raise some local interest. From the wording of today's Presser, it doesnt sound like we're hiring from within & thank the Gods for that. They emphasized how they want someone with real experience, but i also have zero faith we'll hire a Gallant level HC. So that leaves Lindy & for obvious reasons i think thats exactly what we'll do. Lindy would at least hold the players accountable & that in & of itself might be worth it. But i'd be all for a Brindamour, Gallant or even Torts.

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How does Ellis still keep his job?  His job performance was the worst on the staff. 

Adams has him mistaken for the guy who scored our last playoff game winning goal and keeps him around for moral 

8 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Not firing Ellis can only signal an intent to find another role for him in the organization. Because a new HC is going to bring in his own assistants.

And that role is head coach 

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

Once again, Adams unexpectedly shows he really is wiling to make the hard decisions, and is not too much in love with "his guys".

I like Donnie a lot. I like the way he treats people and I think he deserves a ton of thanks for pulling our kids out of the Krueger black hole and for developing them into NHL players.

In the end, they let him down and I hope that's the last lesson he teaches them.

This is professional sport: win or be replaced.

Hope he lands on his feet.

Not unexpected for me in the sense, I think the limp noodle characterization of Adams you see a lot rather misses the mark tbh. He wears his heart of his sleeve I guess you could say but, being emotional doesn’t mean you aren’t decisive. Again, just because you are decisive doesn’t mean you are proactive. But Adams took the job by firing staff Botterill would not and it shouldn’t be forgotten.

I think he’s really smart, and smart enough to tailor a message (which I think he does a lot) that he IS that golly-gee kinda guy but I think that’s somewhat calculated.

When he’s not aggressive it’s a distinct choice, it’s not borne out of fear. Like we were saying the other day, he very much has conviction 

- - - 

Also I wouldn’t say they “let Granato down”, maybe that they both let eachother down. Granato’s aptitude also came up short 

Edited April 16 by Thorny

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you are giving Adams more credit than he deserves. The 1st period starts made some coaching changes inevitable and the captain goes down with his ship.  A bolder GM makes this decision mid season after the Sabres only won 17 of their first 41 games.  The O and 1st period issues were all firmly established by then and KA did nothing.

I do wonder whether this decision was made by Adams at all.  TP is on the hook for DG’s extension and all major money matters all flow through him.  I also wonder if this decision happens if Ruff was still coaching in NJ.  I’m now firmly in the TP wants Ruff as the next coach camp.  
 

 

Fair point about not doing it sooner if we were gonna do it 

Very fair indeed 

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think the only question with Ellis is whether or not the coach wants him on his staff.

If not, he will be offered another role with the organization.

It’s a litmus test for the new coach. 

If he doesn’t tab Ellis a position, the role Ellis is offered in the organization is Head Coach, and the new coach gets re-assigned.

8 hours ago, rickshaw said:

I think it’s time to start hiring some handsome guys. Enough of these balding, or hanging onto their hair guys. Let’s get some stud behind the bench. If we can’t win in the ice let’s win on good looks! 

I’ve been looking to get into coaching 

Edited April 16 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

That’s the most positive thing, here: the 5 year timeline appears to be on the mark. If Adams had got to enter into next season with Granato still here, he could have been the sacrificial lamb hiring to get KA ‘25-‘26. I think this means KA himself is on hot seat for 24-25 and that’s the WAY it should be.

Positive development 

Adams is probably here for the duration of the next coach, 25-26 is his first season to potentially be on the hot seat imo 
 

Of course some team could want Karmanos and Adams becomes POHO to keep him 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Adams is probably here for the duration of the next coach, 25-26 is his first season to potentially be on the hot seat imo 
 

Of course some team could want Karmanos and Adams becomes POHO to keep him 

Well that would be really dumb and completely unacceptable

Also why would the new coach necessarily get 2 years?

But yes if you are right (and, respectfully, I’ll hope that, like with your thought that Granato would be coming back next year, you are NOT) it takes a bit of the silver lining hopefulness for a better future out of the day

So thanks for that 

Edited April 16 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

Honestly, and I guess I'm probably biased, but this should be one of the more appealing job openings out there. Despite the regression this season, this is one of the more talented young rosters in the league. Most of the young core is locked up under reasonable long-term deals. They're not on the ground-floor of a rebuild. They barely missed the post season last year and were in the running (even if VERY remotely) until the last week of this season. Add in what is widely seen as the #1 pipeline in the NHL and all the indicators are there that with the right guy, the Sabres are set up for a strong multi-year run of sustained success. Adams seems to be very easy to work for/with and you have an owner that doesn't meddle and has shown a willingness to spend. It's objectively a pretty appealing job.

It should be and could be BUT the second part about the owner that doesn't meddle is flat out wrong and if the word on that meddling is out there around the league it just might NOT be an appealing job for a veteran coach. Gallant for example already has a reputation for doing things his own way and not necessarily getting along with those upstairs. So I doubt he'd be coming here. Certainly not without term. 

I won't judge until they make the move but if Ellis stays he's clearly Adam's eyes and ears in the room and that's disfunctional to start. There is no reason on earth for any of the assistants to be retained aside from maybe (and only maybe) Bales as goalies do their own thing off to the side anyway. 

I'd love it to be Brind'Amour. I'd be happy with Ruff. I'd be even happier with Ruff and Peca as his assistant head coach. I'd give Peca a big benefit of a doubt and I'd still be optimistic. That's all the names I have at the moment. 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Adams is probably here for the duration of the next coach, 25-26 is his first season to potentially be on the hot seat imo 
 

Of course some team could want Karmanos and Adams becomes POHO to keep him 

It varies with the circumstances obviously, but I've always thought in a perfect world a "fair shot" for a GM is two coach hirings and/or 5 years.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It varies with the circumstances obviously, but I've always thought in a perfect world a "fair shot" for a GM is two coach hirings and/or 5 years.

It wouldn’t exactly be unheard of for a GM to get canned and a coach stay on, would it? Especially a relatively new one to the job?

especially if coach is a vet, id bet 

Edited April 16 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I think the Sabres aren’t viewed as untouchable by respectable coaching candidates any longer, but I don’t think this is a highly sought after spot either.  And I don’t think the prospect pool matters to them either — they want to win now.

I think they can get someone good, but it will take some good work by KA.  

Prospect pool might actually work against it as coaches want to win now and very few will want to sign on for any kind of long term development plan. They all want GMs who are ready and willing to do whatever they can now and in the near future to make the on ice roster better, and that will include trading prospects.

The firing of Granato makes me think Adams might be willing to make the moves now or he feels pressured to make it happen now for his own job. 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Prospect pool might actually work against it as coaches want to win now and very few will want to sign on for any kind of long term development plan. They all want GMs who are ready and willing to do whatever they can now and in the near future to make the on ice roster better, and that will include trading prospects.

The firing of Granato makes me think Adams might be willing to make the moves now or he feels pressured to make it happen now for his own job. 

If they promise the new coach the keys to that treasure chest or at least the guarantee it’ll be unlocked, that chest full of trade assets would be a significant boon to the job imo 

Picks prospects as currency 

[jad1]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Prospect pool might actually work against it as coaches want to win now and very few will want to sign on for any kind of long term development plan. They all want GMs who are ready and willing to do whatever they can now and in the near future to make the on ice roster better, and that will include trading prospects.

The firing of Granato makes me think Adams might be willing to make the moves now or he feels pressured to make it happen now for his own job. 

I agree with your take about what a coach is looking for from his GM.

But in his press conference, Adams mentioned that he looking of a coach to elevate 'this group' of players.  He also talked about balking this season at the high cost of UFAs.

And his keeping Ellis and other assistants to be repurposed on the new coach's staff leads me to believe that Adams is very much entrenched in his own way of doing things, and is not really looking for input from the new guy on staff or roster construction.

 

Edited April 16 by jad1

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Prospect pool might actually work against it as coaches want to win now and very few will want to sign on for any kind of long term development plan. They all want GMs who are ready and willing to do whatever they can now and in the near future to make the on ice roster better, and that will include trading prospects.

The firing of Granato makes me think Adams might be willing to make the moves now or he feels pressured to make it happen now for his own job. 

To me it just means the development portion of the build is over and the time to win portion is here.

it isn't about bringing in more veterans to push the kids on the roster down, it's about pushing the kids already on the roster to a place where the need to do that becomes redundant.

it's about getting the types of seasons out Thompson, Dahlin, Quinn and Power that Tocchet got out of Petterson, Hughes, Boeser and Demko.

Adams expected the Power to Thompson age group to be better. They got worse and that's why Donnie got fired.

His replacement will be the guy Adams thinks can make this group take another step.

Edited April 16 by dudacek

[gilbert11]

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I personally feel bad for Granato because he seems like a great guy but from a team standpoint that was very much needed to push beyond development central.

Yeah, some people were even saying this last season.  Unfortunately they were right and the team regressed.

 

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

It could be a nice spot to walk into. Someone else has done the dirty work.

Add to the mix some roster control and an idea that Terry is willing to spend and agree to stay out of it.

Great franchise tradition, fan base willing to come back with a vengeance, as close to a Canadian team as you can get etc.

Not to mention the idea of a real challenge. Which id imagine is appealing to certain type of accomplished vet. You could carve a staggering place in the eyes of a fandom by merely accomplishing something…teams do all the time  

good chance for a legacy builder 

if you fail, well, people will just blame Buffalo 

[PerreaultForever]

5 minutes ago, jad1 said:

I agree with your take about what a coach is looking for from his GM.

But in his press conference, Adams mentioned that he looking of a coach to elevate 'this group' of players.  He also talked about balking this season at the high cost of UFAs.

And his keeping Ellis and other assistants to be repurposed on the new coach's staff leads me to believe that Adams is very much entrenched in his own way of doing things, and is not really looking for input from the new guy on staff or roster construction.

 

This is the most troubling thing imo. To me it's clearly a situation where Adams wants a trusted spy in the locker room. His eyes and ears. Ellis is useless as a coach. It's a dysfunctional recipe. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To me it just means the development portion of the build is over and the time to win portion is here.

it isn't about bringing in more veterans to push the kids on the roster down, it's about pushing the kids already on the roster to a place where the need to do that becomes redundant.

it's about getting the types of seasons out Thompson, Dahlin, Quinn and Power that Tocchet got out of Petterson, Hughes, Boeser and Demko.

Adams expected the Power to Thompson age group to be better. They got worse and that's why Donnie got fired.

His replacement will be the guy Adams thinks can make this group take another step.

I agree with the first sentence entirely. To the rest though I think it could be both. A coach to push the young guys on the roster and raise the standard, but ALSO willing to make deals and bring in veterans now to lead and round out the roster. We will know more when they actually hire somebody. 

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Is the Buffalo job that great of a challenge?

• The roster has a just a few holes, some of which at least might be filled internally
• They're one season removed from being the 3rd highest scoring team in the league, and all the top scores, save Mitts & Olofsson, are still here
• They have a good cap situation
• They have one of the top prospect pools
• Their core is just coming into their prime
• They have a good and deep defensive core
• They have a goalie that just stepped up to a high quality starter and another close prospect on the rise
• They just fired a fine development coach that couldn't quite get the team to win enough games
• With the a new perspective and the right coaching, the Sabres could easily be a playoff team, perhaps SC contenders

 

It’s not about how big of a challenge it is: it’s the perception of the challenge to the outside world 

as I said, it’s a win-win: you either accomplish something no one else could or you fail because it was beyond your control 

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, msw2112 said:

I don't think the Sabres will have a difficult time finding candidates interested in the job.  This is not the team that finished last in the league a few short years ago.  The team is in the .500 range, with lots of young talent at all 3 levels.  They are regarded for having one of the top pipelines of young talent in the league, if not the top.  Their owner has deep pockets and has spent money before.  The same owner has had a lot of success with the Bills.  Adams seems like an easy guy to work for/with and the Mittelstadt trade and Granato firing show that he's willing to make some tough decisions (which has previously been a knock on him).  Buffalo has a great fanbase in place.  While Buffalo may not be the most desired destination for 20-something millionaire athletes (although it's usually fine for hockey players), coaches are older, established adults who are past they partying days and may well enjoy a great community like Buffalo.

I don't think the new coach is coming into a mess.  Rather, they would be coming into a great situation with a team that is on the cusp.  With the right coaching and system, I believe this is easily a playoff team and with some roster tweaks to go along with that coaching, could be a contender within a couple of years.  That's my glass half-full assessment.  Fix the power play alone and this is a playoff team.  Get a full season out of the current version of a UPL and this is a playoff team.  Improve on first period play out of the gate and this is a playoff team.  Fix any one of those things, and it's a playoff team.  A new coach can fix all 3 of those things in short order.

I still think we are somewhat overselling the impact a coach has imo. Whether or not one human can come in and wave a magic wand and boom! power play is fixed and pow! slow starts are gone and schwing! no one gets hurt now…

a lot of the determination for how much success the new coach has in these areas will ultimately come down to how much roster flexibility and depth the GM gives him to work with

I don’t think it’s a matter of one coaching change necessarily bridges the gap to playoffs. It COULD, but the point is we can certainly ill-afford to take that chance, which is why I’m glad Adams seemed to strike a tone of expectation on his end, as well 

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I still think we are somewhat overselling the impact a coach has imo. Whether or not one human can come in and wave a magic wand and boom! power play is fixed and pow! slow starts are gone and schwing! no one gets hurt now…

a lot of the determination for how much success the new coach has in these areas will ultimately come down to how much roster flexibility and depth the GM gives him to work with

I don’t think it’s a matter of one coaching change necessarily bridges the gap to playoffs. It COULD, but the point is we can certainly ill-afford to take that chance, which is why I’m glad Adams seemed to strike a tone of expectation on his end, as well 

I suspect Adams looks at Vancouver and thinks yes, a coach can make that impact. 

[jad1]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To me it just means the development portion of the build is over and the time to win portion is here.

it isn't about bringing in more veterans to push the kids on the roster down, it's about the kids already on the roster making the need to do that redundant.

it's about getting the types of seasons out Thompson, Dahlin, Quinn and Power that Tocchet got out of Petterson, Hughes, Boeser and Demko.

Adams expected the Power to Thompson age group to be better. They got worse and that's why Donnie got fired.

His replacement will be the guy Adams thinks can make this group take another step.

I know that Adams doesn't want to hear that the Sabres are young as an excuse, but it's not an excuse that they are too young, it's a fact.

Young players are inconsistent, and the team suffered from inconsistency this year.

The Sabres have 10 players under the age of 24 on the roster.  For reference, the Panthers have one.

So if Adams decided to fire Granato because of his game management or line decisions, or he lost the room, fine.  But if decided to fire his coach because his 20 year old top 4 defenseman or his 22 year old goalie didn't play like seasoned veterens, well that's on Adams, not Granato.

Youth is not an excuse, it's a choice. A choice that Adams made over and over again in refusing to age up the lineup.

 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I suspect Adams looks at Vancouver and thinks yes, a coach can make that impact. 

But it could.

Adams would be right.

that’s not my point. I’ll say it again: my point is that that alone isn’t enough. We *aren’t* Vancouver. We are the Buffalo Sabres and the franchise itself is leaking oil to the extent of absolutely needing a playoff berth. For the success of the core and the fanbase.

It’s about our willingness to take steps to make the result we want and need a greater possibility: to leave less to luck and chance 

Edited April 16 by Thorny

[triumph_communes]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I still think we are somewhat overselling the impact a coach has imo. Whether or not one human can come in and wave a magic wand and boom! power play is fixed and pow! slow starts are gone and schwing! no one gets hurt now…

a lot of the determination for how much success the new coach has in these areas will ultimately come down to how much roster flexibility and depth the GM gives him to work with

I don’t think it’s a matter of one coaching change necessarily bridges the gap to playoffs. It COULD, but the point is we can certainly ill-afford to take that chance, which is why I’m glad Adams seemed to strike a tone of expectation on his end, as well 

Leadership matters. Case study: Yeo->Berube

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, triumph_communes said:

Leadership matters. Case study: Yeo->Berube

It matters. But I’m cautioning against feeling like we can conveniently get where we need to go merely by adjusting a solitary variable