Backup goaltending: what do we really think about the situation in the crease?

[Thorny]

He’s not represented well by the 25-15 Esque stat line because he’s historically not a cy young stat guy. Last year represented the divergence relative to his usual career output. No sense pretending the idea of balance doesn’t have a positive connotation and VO’s stats/ability need not be represented without that in mind. 

Truth be told it’s at least def possible his playmaking is drying up but there’s good faith statistical evidence to construct the argument it’s more likely not the case at all 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Thorny

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

You've been here a bit, I'm not being very adamant about vo other than saying he's 100% not a top 6 forward. 

Most people would agree with that assessment. It shouldn't be a surprise that as the talent base increases he will drop down in the line assignment. I just think that because of Quinn's injury he will have some utility this season. Maybe he will or not? We shall see how this plays out. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’m still getting used to the fact we no longer care about assembling a gauntlet of competition through which the cream rises to the top, that nowadays it’s more so about doing the exact opposite: holding down spots on the roster “unblocked”, instead, free of capable vets who provide talent obstacles for the kids, the spots instead dangled in front of the youth like carrots. Not arguing the merits of one strategy vs the other but it’s certainly notable 

That is to say, if VO gets a spot as a vet it’s literally by default, and if a rookie gets the spot instead, they’ve beaten out no one but other rookies, and VO

I understand your position about "not blocking" young players when a more experience player could play the position more proficiently. It goes against the concept of competing to earn a spot and role. But the GM has made it clear what his rebuilding plan was. He was going to play younger players in order to accelerate their development. For the most part, I would say that the strategy worked. 

It was recognizable to all that JJP and in intervals Quinn struggled during the season. But the extended playing time they got should benefit the team in the near term because they will be better players sooner rather than later. 

I think the Sabres are now at a different competitive standpoint. As was demonstrated at the end of the season in the playoff race the coaches relied heavily on the players who gave the team a better chance to win at the expense of some other players who were relegated to the bench. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by JohnC

[PerreaultForever]

21 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

VO is just this month's forward scapegoat.  Mitts was the scapegoat last year and VO is his replacement.  Some of the criticism leveled at Mitts was warranted, but the majority was off the deep end.  This time it's VO.  Again some of the criticism is warranted and he has acknowledged that himself and said he is going to work on it.  in the second half of the season before last, VO was probably our best forward.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  How many 28-goal scorers are lying around anyway? (He was tied for 56th in goals last year and his 21 Even goals were tied for 48th.)  That production is top-line goal-scoring and he is likely on the Sabres 3rd line.  

I don't see any similarity to Mitts at all. Granato made VO a healthy scratch. He has no future here. 

[JohnC]

24 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't see any similarity to Mitts at all. Granato made VO a healthy scratch. He has no future here. 

VO doesn't have a long-term future here. That's easy to recognize. But that doesn't mean that for the short-term he can't be used to fill the void left by the injury of Quinn. I'm not suggesting that he will take Quinn's spot on the second line. But the roster spot made available can be filled by VO and utilized on a lower line. The bottom line is that VO will have to compete for a roster spot and role this year. He will need to upgrade and round his game for him to earn playing time. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

VO doesn't have a long-term future here. That's easy to recognize. But that doesn't mean that for the short-term he can't be used to fill the void left by the injury of Quinn. I'm not suggesting that he will take Quinn's spot on the second line. But the roster spot made available can be filled by VO and utilized on a lower line. The bottom line is that VO will have to compete for a roster spot and role this year. He will need to upgrade and round his game for him to earn playing time. 

I don't want a guy I benched, made clear he wasn't wanted, and had on the trade block back in the line up. I'd rather use Rousek, Kulich, etc. 

imo if VO is still on this team in October, it's a fail for KA. 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't want a guy I benched, made clear he wasn't wanted, and had on the trade block back in the line up. I'd rather use Rousek, Kulich, etc. 

imo if VO is still on this team in October, it's a fail for KA. 

With all due respect, your response makes no sense. What if the players you mentioned are not quite ready and would be less effective than the more experience VO. Would you play them ahead of a player who in the short term would be more productive? You are the unceasing wailing guy who complains about the need to win now. Now you sing a different discordant sound. Your logic is illogical. 

Most people would agree that VO is not in the long-term plans for this organization. So what! Neither is Eric Johnson. Maybe a third of the team falls into that category. At this point, I'm not casually writing off any player (as you are doing) who can help us win right now. 

The Sabres have gone through a relatively short but grueling rebuilding process under KA. I'm not writing off anyone who can help us win next season. Players compete and earn the spots and roles. And that's how it should be. 

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

As much as I would like to see the Sabres trade VO, cap space is so precious in the NHL, there are very limited suitors for VO, unless GMKA is willing to take on a larger contract for themselves.

[That Aud Smell]

23 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm not going to be upset though if we start the season with a 28 goal scorer who is a good teammate and in his contract year, in our middle-six. 
 

Also, I'm fine with starting the year with any two of Levi, Comrie and UPL as our goalies.

As much as I enjoyed the VO take, I got to the goalie take and was like blechk.

Still - very good post.

[SwampD]

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't want a guy I benched, made clear he wasn't wanted, and had on the trade block back in the line up. I'd rather use Rousek, Kulich, etc. 

imo if VO is still on this team in October, it's a fail for KA. 

When did any of this happen?

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

With all due respect, your response makes no sense. What if the players you mentioned are not quite ready and would be less effective than the more experience VO. Would you play them ahead of a player who in the short term would be more productive? You are the unceasing wailing guy who complains about the need to win now. Now you sing a different discordant sound. Your logic is illogical. 

No, because I do not think VO gives us a better chance to win now. I would rather rotate rookies for Quinn but ideally I would have preferred we pick up a solid 2 way forward but since we didn't, go with this supposed brilliant prospect pool. It's not like Quinn was a game changer last year. He was inconsistent as you can be and most of his projection is based on the future potential, just like the kids in Rochester. 

VO gives us a better chance to lose. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

When did any of this happen?

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/after-long-benching-sabres-victor-olofsson-has-uncertain-future/

It's POSSIBLE he wasn't/isn't on the trade block, but the rumours of that have certainly run rampant and it makes sense after he was a healthy scratch when the team was actually trying to win and make the playoffs. 

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/after-long-benching-sabres-victor-olofsson-has-uncertain-future/

It's POSSIBLE he wasn't/isn't on the trade block, but the rumours of that have certainly run rampant and it makes sense after he was a healthy scratch when the team was actually trying to win and make the playoffs. 

I actually meant to not highlight the benching. 😂