Sabres Officially Select #9, #16, and #28

[Turbo44]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I don’t think he’s drafted a relevant centre yet fwiw

In general I would guess it’s a dicey play to go three straight draft years without adding a C of note to the pipeline. Would think they should prob take one in the top 2 rounds this year 

WGR said something like,  in his 2 drafts he's only drafted 3 dmen in 12 picks, and one was Power. Look for us drafting a lot of centers, a lot of dmen (hopefully most being RHD) and a goalie in the draft

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Turbo44 said:

WGR said something like,  in his 2 drafts he's only drafted 3 dmen in 12 picks, and one was Power. Look for us drafting a lot of centers, a lot of dmen (hopefully most being RHD) and a goalie in the draft

Very winger heavy so far for sure 

[Thorny]

Out of 9 picks in the first 4 rounds combined, we’ve taken 8 wingers and 1 D

[Turbo44]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Out of 9 picks in the first 4 rounds combined, we’ve taken 8 wingers and 1 D

Yep, always better drafting centers as they can move to wing easily.  Wingers don't move to center typically.  Tonight look for BPA at 9, center at 16 and D at 28 (unless by some miracle Nemec or Jiricek falls to 9 or we move up for one of them)

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Yep, always better drafting centers as they can move to wing easily.  Wingers don't move to center typically.  Tonight look for BPA at 9, center at 16 and D at 28 (unless by some miracle Nemec or Jiricek falls to 9 or we move up for one of them)

At this point I’m predicting Lekkerimäki and Yurov 9/16

I’m hoping we see a C at 28 or in the 2nd 

[LGR4GM]

39 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Yep, always better drafting centers as they can move to wing easily.  Wingers don't move to center typically.  Tonight look for BPA at 9, center at 16 and D at 28 (unless by some miracle Nemec or Jiricek falls to 9 or we move up for one of them)

Tonight draft the best hockey players you can instead of pigeonholing yourself into certain positions.

[LGR4GM]

Looking over my personal draft rankings, I think there will be opportunities to address defense outside of the first round if needed. There are going to be a bunch of LHD and RHD that go in the 2-4th rounds that are quality players with real NHL shots and the good news is, we don't need them to carry their pairings, just be decent.

Also Seamus Casey will probably slide and I wondered often if he is too low on my rankings but he is a intriguing guy who will most likely be available outside of the 1st and probably 2nd rounds. It is going to be a weird draft because basically everyone from 25-60 you could rank in just about any order based on preferences around skills you covet.

[Turbo44]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Tonight draft the best hockey players you can instead of pigeonholing yourself into certain positions.

true - always BPA as these guys won't play for us for at least 2-3 years.  If all else is equal, though, look for centers a D.  I don't really want Lekkerimaki at 9 and Yurov at 16.  Lekk is a bit small and Yurov may be available at 28 due to the Russian thing

[Thorny]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Tonight draft the best hockey players you can instead of pigeonholing yourself into certain positions.

Would you argue there is nothing inherently amiss with not drafting a C of relevance over the course of 3 drafts? That that in itself does not present an issue? Would you assign any value at all to trying to add a C here or is it just wholly irrelevant due to the other ways of shaping a team? 

My gut says going three straight without drafting one wold be a pretty odd play, but perhaps BPA is so crucial that it supersedes the issue of not drafting anything close to balanced re: the pipeline 

A lot of ppl say you should take a goalie every year, I suppose I’d be surprised by the idea it might not be risky to just completely avoid the C position. 

[Turbo44]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Looking over my personal draft rankings, I think there will be opportunities to address defense outside of the first round if needed. There are going to be a bunch of LHD and RHD that go in the 2-4th rounds that are quality players with real NHL shots and the good news is, we don't need them to carry their pairings, just be decent.

Also Seamus Casey will probably slide and I wondered often if he is too low on my rankings but he is a intriguing guy who will most likely be available outside of the 1st and probably 2nd rounds. It is going to be a weird draft because basically everyone from 25-60 you could rank in just about any order based on preferences around skills you covet.

I agree - my rankings show a ton of D available in rounds 2-4 that either have size and defensive ability or are small and are fast with a offensive upside.  Of course, I don't have any in those rounds with both, those are top 15 players - Nemac and Jiricek and maybe Korchinski and Mintyukov. Though, as LHD, the latter 2 don't interest me as much

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Would you argue there is nothing inherently amiss with not drafting a C of relevance over the course of 3 drafts? That that in itself does not present an issue? Would you assign any value at all to trying to add a C here or is it just wholly irrelevant due to the other ways of shaping a team? 

My gut says going three straight without drafting one wold be a pretty odd play, but perhaps BPA is so crucial that it supersedes the issue of not drafting anything close to balanced re: the pipeline 

A lot of ppl say you should take a goalie every year, I suppose I’d be surprised by the idea it might not be risky to just completely avoid the C position. 

They have drafted C just not high. At the top of the draft I fully believe you have to take what presents itself. I personally would have taken Raty instead of Poltapov but they didn't. In 2020 they only had 2 picks of value and we are really bitching about getting Quinn and JJP with those?

Actually my biggest gripe of 2021 is that Koivunen and Raty went in the two picks just before Buffalo took Kisakov. Really the only draft we can criticize them on not taking a center is 2021 so I will patiently wait to see what they do tonight.

2 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

I agree - my rankings show a ton of D available in rounds 2-4 that either have size and defensive ability or are small and are fast with a offensive upside.  Of course, I don't have any in those rounds with both, those are top 15 players - Nemac and Jiricek and maybe Korchinski and Mintyukov. Though, as LHD, the latter 2 don't interest me as much

Side note, I have heard that Mateychuk played on the right a bunch and I know at times Mintyukov did. I don't think Korchinski or Mintyukov will be drafted though.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

They have drafted C just not high. At the top of the draft I fully believe you have to take what presents itself. I personally would have taken Raty instead of Poltapov but they didn't. In 2020 they only had 2 picks of value and we are really bitching about getting Quinn and JJP with those?

Actually my biggest gripe of 2021 is that Koivunen and Raty went in the two picks just before Buffalo took Kisakov. Really the only draft we can criticize them on not taking a center is 2021 so I will patiently wait to see what they do tonight.

Side note, I have heard that Mateychuk played on the right a bunch and I know at times Mintyukov did. I don't think Korchinski or Mintyukov will be drafted though.

True but we cannot reasonably expect an NHLer with Cs picked round 5 or below

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

True but we cannot reasonably expect an NHLer with Cs picked round 5 or below

Sure but again it is really only 1 draft where that is how it went and the OHL and most of the CHL didn't or barely played. I don't think we really know how they would draft in a normal year until, tonight.

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

True but we cannot reasonably expect an NHLer with Cs picked round 5 or below

I agree with needed to draft a couple of C early this draft.  However it's not like the Sabres hadn't been trying to build out from Center through trades and draft picks since 2014.  Reinhart 2nd overall in 2014, Eichel 2nd overall in 2015,  Asplund 37th overall in 2016, Mitts 8th overall in 2017, Dozens 7th overall in 2019.  Then adds Thompson of 26th overall in 2016 (He actually played center at UConn), and Krebs 17th overall in 2019, and you have added a ton of centers to the organization.  

My biggest complaint about last year's draft was two many wingers, especially LW, at the expense of D, goaltenders and C.  It was to much of a one note draft after Power.

Edited July 7, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Sure but again it is really only 1 draft where that is how it went and the OHL and most of the CHL didn't or barely played. I don't think we really know how they would draft in a normal year until, tonight.

Oh I agree I’m not looking to re-litigate past drafts. I just think though that there comes a point where you become aware of how your system is shaping up and think, wow, we haven’t drafted a C of note, we have 4 highish picks, let’s come away with someone here and not allow it to get to an unusual length of time w/o drafting one so we don’t run into problems down the line. 

We won’t/shouldn’t pass on a clearly better player but whether through manipulation (trading up/down) or whatever, I’d argue there’s some impetus here to put a bit of value on finding at least 1 C. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree with needed to draft a couple of C early this draft.  However it's not like the Sabres hadn't been trying to build out from Center through trades and draft picks since 2014.  Reinhart 2nd overall in 2014, Eichel 2nd overall in 2015,  Asplund 37th overall in 2016, Mitts 8th overall in 2017, Dozens 7th overall in 2019.  Then adds Thompson of 26th overall in 2016 (He actually played center at UConn), and Krebs 17th overall in 2019, and you have added a ton of centers to the organization.  

My biggest complaint about last year's draft was two many wingers, especially LW, at the expense of D, goaltenders and C.  It was to much of a one note draft after Power.

Speaking of Adams 3 drafts/seasons, though.

He’s added Krebs, yes, at the subtraction of another C.

The pipeline is quite literally barren at C, after the promising on-roster Cs. Maybe one thinks, Thompson/Cozens/Mittelstadt/Krebs are all going to pan out where we need them to and not shift to the wing, finding a home at C, so we don’t need anything at all in the pipeline for years, but I don’t really lean that way 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Oh I agree I’m not looking to re-litigate past drafts. I just think though that there comes a point where you become aware of how your system is shaping up and think, wow, we haven’t drafted a C of note, we have 4 highish picks, let’s come away with someone here and not allow it to get to an unusual length of time w/o drafting one so we don’t run into problems down the line. 

We won’t/shouldn’t pass on a clearly better player but whether through manipulation (trading up/down) or whatever, I’d argue there’s some impetus here to put a bit of value on finding at least 1 C. 

One of the reasons the franchise failed was DR failure to draft and develop centers.  After Novotny (a bust) and Derek Roy in 2001, the only centers DR drafted in the first 2 rounds from 2002 to 2012 were Luke Adam (2008 2nd rd) and the immortal Marek Zagrapan (13th overall in 2005).  That's it.  No wonder the team floundered.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Speaking of Adams 3 drafts/seasons, though.

He’s added Krebs, yes, at the subtraction of another C.

The pipeline is quite literally barren at C, after the promising on-roster Cs. Maybe one thinks, Thompson/Cozens/Mittelstadt/Krebs are all going to pan out where we need them to and not shift to the wing, finding a home at C, so we don’t need anything at all in the pipeline for years, but I don’t really lean that way 

Again, there is no question we need to invest in more high quality centers for our pipeline.  When your 3 best non-NHL centers in your pipeline are 5th pick Matteo Costantini, 7th round pick Tyson Kozak and 6th rd pick William Bon Barnekow, you need some upgrades.  

[dudacek]

Definitely should reinvest in centres this year.

But the pipeline isn't empty because they've been neglectful, it's empty because they've mostly been hitting on their swings and their prospects have moved up to the big club.

• 1st rounder from 2016
• 2nd rounder in 2016
• top 10 pick in 2017
• 2nd rounder in 2017
• 1st rounder in 2019
• top 10 pick in 2019

How many teams have invested more than 6 significant picks in the past 6 years on centres?

Focusing on the need to rebalance after the past 2 years is fine, but I don't think the past 2 years are troubling. Prior to Quinn and Peterka, they only used one significant pick on a winger in 5 years.

These things tend to go in cycles.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Definitely should reinvest in centres this year.

But the pipeline isn't empty because they've been neglectful, it's empty because they've mostly been hitting on their swings and their prospects have moved up to the big club.

• 1st rounder from 2016
• 2nd rounder in 2016
• top 10 pick in 2017
• 2nd rounder in 2017
• 1st rounder in 2019
• top 10 pick in 2019

How many teams have invested more than 6 significant picks in the past 6 years on centres?

Focusing on the need to rebalance after the past 2 years is fine, but I don't think the past 2 years are troubling. Prior to Quinn and Peterka, they only used one significant pick on a winger in 5 years.

These things tend to go in cycles.

Well ya, the line is arbitrary. But for me 3 years looks about right for it to be high-time. Regardless of who we’ve picked in the past, and where they are now, there are a total of 4 Cs in the organization w/legit C upside and zero are in the pipeline currently 

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

One of the reasons the franchise failed was DR failure to draft and develop centers.  After Novotny (a bust) and Derek Roy in 2001, the only centers DR drafted in the first 2 rounds from 2002 to 2012 were Luke Adam (2008 2nd rd) and the immortal Marek Zagrapan (13th overall in 2005).  That's it.  No wonder the team floundered.  

It's particularly alarming since one of the strengths of those late '90s-'01 teams was a center-heavy forward group where you'd sometimes have 2 centers on the same line, and Lindy was able to roll 3 lines with #2-#3 centers (Peca, Brown, Barnes, Connolly) and a #3-#4 center (Gratton, Holzinger, Primeau/Rasmussen). Once those players were established (age 24-25), only Connolly could have been considered to still have the potential to be a #1C on a team. And it happened again later in the 2005 surge (Briere was a #1, but Drury probably tops out as a 2, and they still had Connolly, Roy as potential 2s.) Get a center spine you can roll all day.

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Speaking of Adams 3 drafts/seasons, though.

He’s added Krebs, yes, at the subtraction of another C.

The pipeline is quite literally barren at C, after the promising on-roster Cs. Maybe one thinks, Thompson/Cozens/Mittelstadt/Krebs are all going to pan out where we need them to and not shift to the wing, finding a home at C, so we don’t need anything at all in the pipeline for years, but I don’t really lean that way 

Adams hasn't had 3 drafts because tonight and tomorrow haven't happened. You are judging him on incomplete information.

[Thorny]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams hasn't had 3 drafts because tonight and tomorrow haven't happened. You are judging him on incomplete information.

Ahh, I missed doing this. 

Nah, as my posts clearly lay out I am not saying Adams has made a mistake. I didn’t pass judgment. What I DID say is that, SHOULD he neglect the position a third time, that THAT is something I’d consider to be dicey. 

Woooooo, dicey. Thorny unleashed. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ahh, I missed doing this. 

Nah, as my posts clearly lay out I am not saying Adams has made a mistake. I didn’t pass judgment. What I DID say is that, SHOULD he neglect the position a third time, that THAT is something I’d consider to be dicey. 

Woooooo, dicey. Thorny unleashed. 

Okay. That's not what the first post says but sure, if they ignore center tonight it raises questions.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Would you argue there is nothing inherently amiss with not drafting a C of relevance over the course of 3 drafts? That that in itself does not present an issue? Would you assign any value at all to trying to add a C here or is it just wholly irrelevant due to the other ways of shaping a team? 

My gut says going three straight without drafting one wold be a pretty odd play, but perhaps BPA is so crucial that it supersedes the issue of not drafting anything close to balanced re: the pipeline 

A lot of ppl say you should take a goalie every year, I suppose I’d be surprised by the idea it might not be risky to just completely avoid the C position. 

My first post on it 

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Okay. That's not what the first post says but sure, if they ignore center tonight it raises questions.