LabattBlue Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Let's just assume Max follows up his breakout regular season with a terrific playoff and Darcy wants to sign him to a four year deal. How high do you go? 4 years 15 million sound like it would be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haseoke Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 dont give a guy nearly 4 million a season based on one good season. im thinking 12 million. on the upper end. remember, this new NHL has a salary cap. that means alexander ovechkin can earn around 7 million tops. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 dont give a guy nearly 4 million a season based on one good season. im thinking 12 million. on the upper end. remember, this new NHL has a salary cap. that means alexander ovechkin can earn around 7 million tops. j I may be high in my guess, but it looks like the light has finally come on for Max. You are probably right in that Max should get closer to 3 than 4, but I would hate to see him pack it in and play in Russia if the Sabres lowball him. I guess playoff fever has me all wound up. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePolishSabre Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 dont give a guy nearly 4 million a season based on one good season. im thinking 12 million. on the upper end. remember, this new NHL has a salary cap. that means alexander ovechkin can earn around 7 million tops. j So you won't give a guy 3.75 mil but you will give him 3 mil ??? You are right, this is the new NHL, and i only see Max getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haseoke Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 alright. im thinking this through more clearly now. there are so many goddamn guys on this team who are due for raises this summer, i have no idea what we're gonna do. the only salary we can really let go of is biron. connoly, kotalik and max all make around 1 million. mckee makes 1.5. ryan miller, paul gaustad and biran campbell make around 500,000 each. briere makes 2M. im really getting kinda freaked out thinking about how we're gonna sustain this offseason. id love to get this whole team just resigned, bring them all back next year, older, more experienced, and #%^$#! free agency, but i dont think we can even do that. forget about 3M for afinogenov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chileanseabass Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 alright. im thinking this through more clearly now. there are so many goddamn guys on this team who are due for raises this summer, i have no idea what we're gonna do. the only salary we can really let go of is biron. connoly, kotalik and max all make around 1 million. mckee makes 1.5. ryan miller, paul gaustad and biran campbell make around 500,000 each. briere makes 2M. im really getting kinda freaked out thinking about how we're gonna sustain this offseason. id love to get this whole team just resigned, bring them all back next year, older, more experienced, and #%^$#! free agency, but i dont think we can even do that. forget about 3M for afinogenov. with the glut of forwards we have, i say move kotalik and marty at the draft with our #1 to move up in the draft or pick up a d-man (but not trade our #1 if we go the dman route). pominville will put up numbers at or above what kotalik did, given more playing time and experience. that will free up a little cash to sign the important pieces of the team for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I think Pyatt and Mair are gona be gone after this season. I wouldn't be surpised if Biron was traded either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 alright. im thinking this through more clearly now. there are so many goddamn guys on this team who are due for raises this summer, i have no idea what we're gonna do. the only salary we can really let go of is biron. connoly, kotalik and max all make around 1 million. mckee makes 1.5. ryan miller, paul gaustad and biran campbell make around 500,000 each. briere makes 2M. im really getting kinda freaked out thinking about how we're gonna sustain this offseason. id love to get this whole team just resigned, bring them all back next year, older, more experienced, and #%^$#! free agency, but i dont think we can even do that. forget about 3M for afinogenov. I'm concerned about this as well -- but how many of these guys are free agents? I think Briere and McKee are unrestricted after this year, and I'm worried about losing both of them. I didn't think connolly, kotalik, max, etc. were free agents. Is there a list somewhere of everyone's contract status? Also, does anyone know how the rules work for restricted free agents (assuming some of these guys are in that category)? Chilean Sea Bass -- I must disagree about Pominville/Kotalik -- while I like Pominville, I think Kotalik is substantially better. While Kotalik has cooled off since the olympics, he's much bigger and better along the boards than Pominville. Go Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I'm concerned about this as well -- but how many of these guys are free agents? I think Briere and McKee are unrestricted after this year, and I'm worried about losing both of them. I didn't think connolly, kotalik, max, etc. were free agents. Is there a list somewhere of everyone's contract status? Also, does anyone know how the rules work for restricted free agents (assuming some of these guys are in that category)? Chilean Sea Bass -- I must disagree about Pominville/Kotalik -- while I like Pominville, I think Kotalik is substantially better. While Kotalik has cooled off since the olympics, he's much bigger and better along the boards than Pominville. Go Sabres. Briere is a Restricted Free Agent. While they are the same age, Briere has played less seasons than McKee. I think Briere has two seasons where he does not have enough games to count as a season. Restricted Free Agents have to be given a qualifying offer based on how much they made this year. I don't really remember the specifics of how much, I am sure Dave knows the answer. Most players will sign for this offer. If another team tries to sign them, I believe the Sabres have the ability to match the offer, and if they don't they have to compensate the Sabres with draft picks (the amount and rounds of picks depends on what level free agent the player is). I wouldn't really worry about anyone signing our RFA's, especially with such a big UFA market this year. I think our UFA's for this year are: McKee, Grier, Fitzpatrick, Numinnen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber61 Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 whatever we do... we have to sign max back... he's finnally coming around and with the new rules he's dynamite... theres no defense out there fast enough to catch him... and when he's making his move he's never coasting... he's also finally passing the puck more... he really has come out of a shell... that and he's on my black jersey and i don't want to be wearing an out of date jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Briere is a Restricted Free Agent. While they are the same age, Briere has played less seasons than McKee. I think Briere has two seasons where he does not have enough games to count as a season. Restricted Free Agents have to be given a qualifying offer based on how much they made this year. I don't really remember the specifics of how much .... Most players will sign for this offer. If another team tries to sign them, I believe the Sabres have the ability to match the offer, and if they don't they have to compensate the Sabres with draft picks (the amount and rounds of picks depends on what level free agent the player is). I wouldn't really worry about anyone signing our RFA's, especially with such a big UFA market this year. I think our UFA's for this year are: McKee, Grier, Fitzpatrick, Numinnen. To retain rights to an RFA, a team must make a qualifying offer. Minimum qualifying offer for a player making less than $660k is 110% of last season's salary. Minimum qualifying offer for a player making $1MM or less is 105% of last season's salary. Minimum qualifying offer for all other potential RFA's is 100% of last season's salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Briere is a Restricted Free Agent. While they are the same age, Briere has played less seasons than McKee. I think Briere has two seasons where he does not have enough games to count as a season. Restricted Free Agents have to be given a qualifying offer based on how much they made this year. I don't really remember the specifics of how much, I am sure Dave knows the answer. Most players will sign for this offer. If another team tries to sign them, I believe the Sabres have the ability to match the offer, and if they don't they have to compensate the Sabres with draft picks (the amount and rounds of picks depends on what level free agent the player is). I wouldn't really worry about anyone signing our RFA's, especially with such a big UFA market this year. I think our UFA's for this year are: McKee, Grier, Fitzpatrick, Numinnen. Bring back McKee, Grier, Numminen if possible with slight raises. They'll accept slight raises unless some Columbus or Florida type goes nuts and throws big money at them. Fitz's abilities are easily replaced, either from Rochester or elsewhere in the league. Afi: if the Sabs don't have to address him this season, then don't. If he's an RFA (I'm unsure), I can see him as the type of player that another team that THINKS it's "one player away" going crazy over him, in which event it might take $3.75M for a long-term deal (he may want to sign one-year deals until he reaches UFA status, or the team that goes crazy over him might throw draft picks at the situation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I don't think Buffalo will be able to trade Biron at the deadline cause, If I'm not mistaken, he is a FA this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 either way, that's 2.5 mil off our budget. I like Biron, I really do, but Ryan Miller is the future. 2.5 is too much for a backup. This year, it made sense, se we already had him on our books. Next year though, I just don't see how we can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chileanseabass Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Chilean Sea Bass -- I must disagree about Pominville/Kotalik -- while I like Pominville, I think Kotalik is substantially better. While Kotalik has cooled off since the olympics, he's much bigger and better along the boards than Pominville. pominville can do just what he did this year and even more with increased ice time. the wild card in this is novotny. i really like what he's done in his short time in buffalo, but putting him on a regular line for the whole season he will be able to make his presence felt. is he the future of the organization? no way, but he's, like kotalik, size and skill in one package (and cheaper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Afi: if the Sabs don't have to address him this season, then don't. If he's an RFA (I'm unsure), I can see him as the type of player that another team that THINKS it's "one player away" going crazy over him, in which event it might take $3.75M for a long-term deal (he may want to sign one-year deals until he reaches UFA status, or the team that goes crazy over him might throw draft picks at the situation). I'm okay with just giving Max his RFA tender, but you always run the risk that he gets pissed off at the year by year tender and instead he elects to play in Russia for more money. It was rumored that he wasn't going to come back this year. It's Darcy's call and I hope he has a good poker face. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I'm okay with just giving Max his RFA tender, but you always run the risk that he gets pissed off at the year by year tender and instead he elects to play in Russia for more money. It was rumored that he wasn't going to come back this year. It's Darcy's call and I hope he has a good poker face. ;) Would he make enough more in Russia to justify failing to rack up more credit to UFA status in the NHL? What do we think he could get over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haseoke Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 whatever he gets in russia, incidentally, goes a bazillion times farther in that economy. just thinking. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I don't think Buffalo will be able to trade Biron at the deadline cause, If I'm not mistaken, he is a FA this summer. I think he has one more year. It may be an option? I'm sure the Sabres will do what they can to keep Max around. That said. It's the same with McKee and others. The Sabres can't just blow up the salary structure. Yeah, they are making a small profit. But it's not enough to be able to through money at players. Golisano has yet to see a positive penny from his purchase and I'm sure he would like a chance to recoup some of his money. Fans have to be prepared. This is still small market economics. Every year there will be players the Sabres just can't afford even though they want to keep them (ie. Zhitnik). McKee may be next years Z. Max will have to sign the qualifiers or hope for a positive arbitrators ruling if he wants to play in the NHL. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWarner Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Golisano has yet to see a positive penny from his purchase and I'm sure he would like a chance to recoup some of his money. Didn't a recent article say he is still $10-15 mil in the red? With that being said, I don't think a lot of teams will do much until the cap and base are set for next year (sometime in July I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Didn't a recent article say he is still $10-15 mil in the red? With that being said, I don't think a lot of teams will do much until the cap and base are set for next year (sometime in July I think). I doubt it for this season. The Sabres were projecting a ~$250k profit this year with an average crowd of ~14,500. They had 18 sellouts and came close on several other occasions, so I'd expect they made more than the $250k (of course they didn't expect as many injury callups as they had, so they may not have made a LOT more than the $250k). Tommy will make some this year. Not as much as he lost in '03-'04, but black is always better than red; and he came in EXPECTING to lose money PRIOR to the lockout. He planned on not losing money post-lockout and, so far at least, the plan is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Anothetr thing to remember is that the Sabres have a lot of young talent waiting for their chance. Paille for one has shown he can play as well as Novotny. The Sabres have 51 wins this season. Thats 51 . They haven't achieved that by over spending. I was as loud and as ignorant (OK more :blush: ) as anyone regarding this process earlier in the year. For the Sabres to continue to have success they will need to keep a young core together and roll new talent in as more expensive talent rolls out. Even if the Sabres did make $10 million this year? Nothing would change. When you increase your payroll by that much you can't go back. You end up crushed under heavy contracts for years to come. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haseoke Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 i understand not wanting to jump up and pay more than we can afford for anyone, but hell - you cant look at this year's team and say we're this good because we just trusted our farm system. well, ok, we are, but thats not a strategy that anyone can just do at any time. for vanek, roy, gaustad, pominville, novotny and miller to all come up and play big league hockey this year is a rare, rare thing, and right now our scouting looks super smart. but they havent always looked that smart, and if we let go of our more expensive talent we're not gonna have guys be able to just roll in and pick up where the big guns left off. lets be real. we gotta pay whatever we can within reason to keep some of this years best players. for every player we have to lose though, we're probably going to be that much of a worse team. past a point, we'd be missing the playoffs again. rochester isnt stockpiled with sidney crosbys. j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 i understand not wanting to jump up and pay more than we can afford for anyone, but hell - you cant look at this year's team and say we're this good because we just trusted our farm system. well, ok, we are, but thats not a strategy that anyone can just do at any time. for vanek, roy, gaustad, pominville, novotny and miller to all come up and play big league hockey this year is a rare, rare thing, and right now our scouting looks super smart. but they havent always looked that smart, and if we let go of our more expensive talent we're not gonna have guys be able to just roll in and pick up where the big guns left off. lets be real. we gotta pay whatever we can within reason to keep some of this years best players. for every player we have to lose though, we're probably going to be that much of a worse team. past a point, we'd be missing the playoffs again. rochester isnt stockpiled with sidney crosbys. j The Sabres are not suprised by how these kids played. They counted on it. It is their plan. And it works. What if the Sabres would have gone out and paid another $5 -6 million and brought in players? Would they be as good? The Sabres will try to resign who they can. But "whatever we can within reason" is not how they do business and for the sake of the future of the franchise I hope it never will. Enjoy the 51 wins and be comforted by the fact that this is merely the begining of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'd predict the Sabres' total payroll will probably go up by $2 million or so, but not much more. We'll probably find some savings by letting Marty go ($2.1 million), if Teppo retires ($2 million), and possibly replacing Grier ($1.3 million). (Although I'd prefer to keep both Teppo and Grier, I think I've read that Teppo is thinking about retiring and Grier seems vulnerable). These savings would quickly get gobbled up by re-signing Briere and/or McKee. It's hard to see us spending $6 million per year on Chara or a similar star UFA. As for locking up Max long-term -- we'll see. Another season like this year and we might have no choice. I think the Sabres will always keep to a pretty closely controlled budget, which is the right thing to do, but within that budget there will be room for a couple of highly paid leaders/stars. I don't think the Sabres will get into a situation again where their highest paid player is a floater like Miro -- ie they will only pay big bucks for guys like Briere and Max who play hard all of the time and will go into the corners to dig it out. Go Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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