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sweetlou

2019 Off Season

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

If team A wants to trade player A then why would team B want player A? To answer that it is simple. Tampa feels they can properly slot him in their lineup and he will be succesful. If we use your logic than no players would ever be traded because the team getting them would never want them.

To the 2nd bolded, does this make you feel better?

If you can't slot players on your team properly then you will always be trading players away and never be any good.

Absolutely....and it garnished the exact response that I expected.

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2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

If you can't slot players on your team properly then you will always be trading players away and never be any good.

Absolutely....and it garnished the exact response that I expected.

As long as you feel better. 

You make the trade of Risto to help you slot the players you have correctly. Maybe Tampa thinks they can fix Risto or he will be better in their system. It is almost like 2 GM's could view a players talents differently. 

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2 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

If you can't slot players on your team properly then you will always be trading players away and never be any good.

Absolutely....and it garnished the exact response that I expected.

Not exactly.  Teams play different system and have different personnel.  The best example I can give is Kane vs Skinner.  Kane is a fine hockey player and played pretty well for us.  However he wasn’t a good fit for Eichel our No.1 center, partly because he never passed the puck. Thus Kane was traded and eventually replaced by another trade for Skinner.  Skinner fits Jack like a glove.  Although he is also a shoot first kind of guy he does pass and he has a knack for getting open for Jack’s passes that Kane never had.

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2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

As long as you feel better. 

You make the trade of Risto to help you slot the players you have correctly. Maybe Tampa thinks they can fix Risto or he will be better in their system. It is almost like 2 GM's could view a players talents differently. 

But the talent isn't different if he is developed properly. So the question might be .....what does Tampa do that we don't? If Risto is one of your top 3 then who replaces him that can slot properly and make you better?

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33 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But the talent isn't different if he is developed properly. So the question might be .....what does Tampa do that we don't? If Risto is one of your top 3 then who replaces him that can slot properly and make you better?

Doesn't matter if I feel better, only matters if you do. 

Top 3 are Dahlin, Montour, and then ? I don't believe Risto fills that question so I am willing to trade him to fix another ? which is 2 C. 

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31 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not exactly.  Teams play different system and have different personnel.  The best example I can give is Kane vs Skinner.  Kane is a fine hockey player and played pretty well for us.  However he wasn’t a good fit for Eichel our No.1 center, partly because he never passed the puck. Thus Kane was traded and eventually replaced by another trade for Skinner.  Skinner fits Jack like a glove.  Although he is also a shoot first kind of guy he does pass and he has a knack for getting open for Jack’s passes that Kane never had.

I understand your thinking and agree to a point. But if you could bring in a player just like Kane (or even Kane) wouldn't you do it if not losing anyone? Can't argue that he wouldn't be an upgrade from many players we have on the roster. Isn't he the type of player that many are clamoring for....scorer, forechecker, speed, tough to play against?

As far as Risto....slotting seems to be the issue with most. So why not get someone on the roster to be able to slot him properly. If Tampa can play the style of game that PH wants to play "with" Risto, then why can't we if he's slotted right? That's more my point. Nobody feels that Risto is a top D. But I'd rather have him in the line-up than someone like Hunwick/Scandy. I think our D will get better and good enough to support a Risto type player to be slotted correctly. If you can replace him with someone better at some point (like Borgen/ Samuelsson/etc) then all the better. 

 

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19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't matter if I feel better, only matters if you do. 

Top 3 are Dahlin, Montour, and then ? I don't believe Risto fills that question so I am willing to trade him to fix another ? which is 2 C. 

Create one problem and solve another, that works pretty well. You can't even name a third Dman and yet you want to get rid of Risto.

In that post I never commented about you feeling better so what's with the Snark???

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8 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Create one problem and solve another, that works pretty well. You can't even name a third Dman and yet you want to get rid of Risto.

In that post I never commented about you feeling better so what's with the Snark???

Dahlin, Montour, McCabe. Top 4 with potential of Pilut also making the top 4. The problem isn't that I can't name the top 4, the problem is right now I have to include Risto in that top 4 and his production doesn't outpace his mistakes. 

I have advocated trading for Foote as part of the deal to Tampa. Might take another year but there's a solid option as a replacement. 

 

Edited by LGR4GM

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Dahlin, Montour, Bogo, McCabe. Top 4 with potential of Pilut also making the top 4. 

 

 

AAAAHHHHHH yes.....Pilut and Risto on a 3rd pair, sounds about right on a successful team like Tampa.

 

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1 minute ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

AAAAHHHHHH yes.....Pilut and Risto on a 3rd pair, sounds about right on a successful team like Tampa.

 

Probably would be a good third pair. But I can upgrade a hole that is a greater need than my 3rd pair. 

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Just now, LGR4GM said:

Probably would be a good third pair. But I can upgrade a hole that is a greater need than my 3rd pair. 

But in another thread you said that since the 10 game streak that our D and goaltending has colapsed. So, you want to upgrade a totally different position and make the D worse which will likely make the tending worse so you can fix that.

We have the resources to fix the 2C without making everything else worse.

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14 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But in another thread you said that since the 10 game streak that our D and goaltending has colapsed. So, you want to upgrade a totally different position and make the D worse which will likely make the tending worse so you can fix that.

We have the resources to fix the 2C without making everything else worse.

Yea, I think Risto is one of the things making our d bad. He isn't good at defense. He makes bad plays and loses coverage. 

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15 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

But in another thread you said that since the 10 game streak that our D and goaltending has colapsed. So, you want to upgrade a totally different position and make the D worse which will likely make the tending worse so you can fix that.

We have the resources to fix the 2C without making everything else worse.

are you looking at a UFA?

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37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea, I think Risto is one of the things making our d bad. He isn't good at defense. He makes bad plays and loses coverage. 

Then an upgrade is warranted and not creating a hole. I just saw your suggestion of Foote.Not sure it's an upgrade, I thought his skating wasn't good.

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2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

how else? I don't see any other avenue than trading Risto.

There are always ways. Picks? Prospects? Draft?

Risto is not out of the question by all means, just asking how you fill the hole create while fixing other hole and still make the team better. I don't want to take one step forward to trip on a crack in the sidewalk.

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On 3/12/2019 at 2:26 PM, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

There are always ways. Picks? Prospects? Draft?

Risto is not out of the question by all means, just asking how you fill the hole create while fixing other hole and still make the team better. I don't want to take one step forward to trip on a crack in the sidewalk.

A couple of notes.  Players are also traded for contract, cap reasons, attitude or wanting to leave.  Those are some of the reasons both ROR and Kane were traded to us and why they were eventually traded away.  

As to a hole creates by sending Risto away, I can see both sides of this argument.  I think of Risto as a very good 2nd pairing offensive minded D.  If you assume Montour was brought in as Dahlin’s partner, then there is a huge hole created by trading Risto.  If on the other hand you believe that Montour was brought in to anchor the second pairing, then Risto is as good as replaced. 

I believe that Montour isn’t good enough defensively to pair up with Dahlin on the top pair.  I want a RHD version of McCabe for that role.  Bogo isn’t that guy.  

I do think Jbot wants Bogo’s physicality on the 3rd pairing with Pilut and as a place holder for either Borgen or Dougherty the year after next.

If Jbot trades both Scandella and Risto and acquires an RHD version of McCabe to play with Dahlin and a 2nd line center, I think we’ll take a huge step forward without creating any roster holes.

Dahlin ?????

McCabe Montour

Pilut Bogo

Hunwick Nelson

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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41 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

There are always ways. Picks? Prospects? Draft?

Risto is not out of the question by all means, just asking how you fill the hole create while fixing other hole and still make the team better. I don't want to take one step forward to trip on a crack in the sidewalk.

I definitely would only trade Risto for a legit top 6 forward. Im not in the "just get rid of him" camp at all.

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7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

A couple of notes.  Players are also traded for contract, cap reasons, attitude or wanting or leave.  Those are some of the reasons both ROR and Kane were traded to us and why they were eventually traded away.  

As to a hole creates by sending Risto away, I can see both sides of this argument.  I think of Risto as a very good 2nd pairing offensive minded D.  If you assume Montour was brought in as Dahlin’s partner, then there is a huge hole created by trading Risto.  If on the other hand you believe that Montour was brought in to anchor the second pairing, then Risto is as good as replaced. 

I believe that Montour isn’t good enough defensively to pair up with Dahlin on the top pair.  I want a RHD version of McCabe for that role.  Bogo isn’t that guy.  

I do think Jbot wants Bogo’s physicality on the 3rd pairing with Pilut and as a place holder for either Borgen or Dougherty the year after next.

If Jbot trades both Scandella and Risto and acquires an RHD version of McCabe to play with Dahlin and a 2nd line center, I think we’ll take a huge step forward without creating any roster holes.

Dahlin ?????

McCabe Montour

Pilut Bogo

Hunwick Nelson

 

That"s what I was getting at. If we trade Risto for a 2C it creates a hole that we still need to fill on D.

I agree we need to address both.

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9 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

That"s what I was getting at. If we trade Risto for a 2C it creates a hole that we still need to fill on D.

I agree we need to address both.

But we have defenders in the system that could possibly fill that hole. We have Casey. That's it for 2c, there's nothing else in the system that has the potential to fill that spot. I don't have Bogo, Nelson, Borgen, Samuelsson, Fitzgerlad, or Laaksonen that could potentially fill some of that. 

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6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

But we have defenders in the system that could possibly fill that hole. We have Casey. That's it for 2c, there's nothing else in the system that has the potential to fill that spot. I don't have Bogo, Nelson, Borgen, Samuelsson, Fitzgerlad, or Laaksonen that could potentially fill some of that. 

You're hoping to make the team better now by adding the 2C. Yet want to take a step back on the D and hope someone who's not developed yet or hasn't even left college or better yet hasn't even come to the US, will fill a good size hole in the D.  Bogo and Nelson are already on the roster,,,,musical deck chairs? Samuelsson is likely a couple years away and Fitzgerald too. Didn't Oskari sign a 3yr with the SHL? Borgen is the best and maybe only one left. Dougherty and Hickey need more time likely in the AHL . 

All said and done, I just don't want to get rid of Risto without a replacement plan and my suggestion would be to try and trade for a player like Brett Pesce to help bring a more stable D and could be a good partner for Dahlin.

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I don't how to explain in more ways that it's going to be easier to find a 2nd pair rd then a 2nd line center. I don't understand how that seems confusing. 

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I'm amazed I keep falling in the trap each off season of how well the Sabres look on paper with the acquisitions they make, only to be disappointed by the results each year. I'm trying to remember the last off season where the player actually lived up to the potential or even surpassed it. May have to go back to the addition of Drury and Briere.

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