Sabres Line: Reinhart Moved Back to Top

[dudacek]

I would never put a guy on a line as a punishment or reward.

I put him on a line that gives my team the best chance to succeed.

 

Last chance?

Meaning that if he doesn’t produce we’re trading him to the first team that offers a third-rounder? Benching him for remainder of the season?

Edited December 20, 2017 by Mick O’Manly

[WildCard]

I would never put a guy on a line as a punishment or reward.

I put him on a line that gives my team the best chance to succeed.

 

Last chance?

Meaning that if he doesn’t produce we’re trading him to the first team that offers a third-rounder? Benching him for remainder of the season?

Or Housley finally realizes that's where he should have been playing the entire time; 3rd line center experiment didn't exactly pan out

[darksabre]

I would never put a guy on a line as a punishment or reward.

I put him on a line that gives my team the best chance to succeed.

 

Last chance?

Meaning that if he doesn’t produce we’re trading him to the first team that offers a third-rounder? Benching him for remainder of the season?

I think Last Chance as in, if he can't produce with Jack and Evander, then he can't produce anywhere on this team. 

[pi2000]

Are where would you learn leadership at the professional level if not Rochester first? 

 

That is the exact wrong way to do this. There is no stability. No expectation or standard set. It is just a carousel that you hope someone can stick. 

 

This meme is so old and overplayed. Considering a bunch of baby boomers just stole trillions of dollars from Millennials, I think maybe we should talk about the self centered ###### that are the baby boomers. They have no regard for anyone but themselves and think the best approach is to ###### over everyone and everything in their way. 

 

I don't believe leadership can be taught, you're either a natural born leader... or you're not.   You can get better at it, but learned leadership is not the type of leadership this team needs.

 

The expectation is that if you don't contribute, we'll give somebody else an opportunity.     Nothing is given.   

 

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchhill

[dudacek]

I think Last Chance as in, if he can't produce with Jack and Evander, then he can't produce anywhere on this team.

 

Even though he produced last season and the season before?

[Thorny]

I would never put a guy on a line as a punishment or reward.

I put him on a line that gives my team the best chance to succeed.

Last chance?

Meaning that if he doesn’t produce we’re trading him to the first team that offers a third-rounder? Benching him for remainder of the season?

I don't think his trade value is as low as people think.

 

Good pedigree, good first two seasons, huge drop off this year coninciding with a terrible team season.

 

There will be GMs that see him as a casualty, not a cause.

[Samson's Flow]

Or Housley finally realizes that's where he should have been playing the entire time; 3rd line center experiment didn't exactly pan out

I think the 3rd line center experiment was worth trying out, to see if Reinhart would blossom in finally playing center. It didn't, and once that was recognized he should have immediately been in a top 6 wing role and not jerked around the rest of the year.

[jsb]

Or Housley finally realizes that's where he should have been playing the entire time; 3rd line center experiment didn't exactly pan out

I could be wrong but weren't you one of the advocates for that very same experiment???  :w00t:  :w00t:  :w00t:

[WildCard]

Are where would you learn leadership at the professional level if not Rochester first? 

 

That is the exact wrong way to do this. There is no stability. No expectation or standard set. It is just a carousel that you hope someone can stick. 

 

This meme is so old and overplayed. Considering a bunch of baby boomers just stole trillions of dollars from Millennials, I think maybe we should talk about the self centered ###### that are the baby boomers. They have no regard for anyone but themselves and think the best approach is to ###### over everyone and everything in their way. 

I don't believe leadership can be taught, you're either a natural born leader... or you're not.   You can get better at it, but learned leadership is not the type of leadership this team needs.

 

The expectation is that if you don't contribute, we'll give somebody else an opportunity.     Nothing is given.   

 

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchhill

Usually the millenial stuff pisses me off too, but you gotta realize it's pi, Liger. He's screwing with you 

 

Far as the bold, 100% afree

[Samson's Flow]

Even though he produced last season and the season before?

Exactly. I'd argue this is the outlier not the new norm.

[WildCard]

I think the 3rd line center experiment was worth trying out, to see if Reinhart would blossom in finally playing center. It didn't, and once that was recognized he should have immediately been in a top 6 wing role and not jerked around the rest of the year.

I could be wrong but weren't you one of the advocates for that very same experiment???  :w00t:  :w00t:  :w00t:

I was very much the one screaming for it :lol:

 

Glad we tried it, and maybe if we had depth wingers it would work, but right now it's clear it wasn't going to

[dudacek]

Exactly. I'd argue this is the outlier not the new norm.

We seem to be the only ones.

[WildCard]

We seem to be the only ones.

I have more of an issue with at least 10 other players this year than Reinhart

[Samson's Flow]

I was very much the one screaming for it :lol:

 

Glad we tried it, and maybe if we had depth wingers it would work, but right now it's clear it wasn't going to

Again, tough for a pass first facilitator to have much success when you are passing to such established finishers as Johan Larsson and Jordan Nolan :bag:

I have more of an issue with at least 10 other players this year than Reinhart

Right - it's basically a group failure at this point. The only player that has exceeded my expectations is Evander Kane. Everyone else is under performing from what my expectations were at the start of the year.

[Thorny]

Exactly. I'd argue this is the outlier not the new norm.

This is the crux of the argument.

 

My eye test says his skating his regressed this season. But that can't be the case. So it leads me to believe the game is just faster now, and he can't keep up. Plenty of talk of how the game is moving ever towards a speed game, complete with reports of players slimming down in the offseason to kick up their speed a notch.

 

I'd be much more open to the possibility that this season was an outlier and not the new norm, if the same deficiencies we've always associated with Sam's game weren't exactly what the game is trending towards, for it's dominant required strengths.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[darksabre]

Even though he produced last season and the season before?

 

His previous production is irrelevant to me given his current play. This isn't just a slump. He's fallen right off the chart. So either he's crashing back to earth or he's having a down year. I'm inclined to think it's the former and that his production the previous two years under Bylsma was a product of him being sheltered instead of being asked to carry more of the water like this year. 

 

I don't know what he's going to command as an RFA, but I'm not confident I want to pay it. I might prefer to let another team deal with that. 

[WildCard]

This is he crux of the argument.

 

My eye test says his skating his regressed this season. But that can't be the case. So it leads me to believe the game is just faster now, and he can't keep up. Plenty of talk of how the game is moving ever towards a speed game, complete with reports of players slimming down in the offseason to kick up their speed a notch.

 

I'd be much more open to the possibility that this season was an outlier and not the new norm, if the same deficiencies we've always associated with Sam's game weren't exactly what the game is trending towards, for it's dominant required strengths.

I don't know if your logic works here. His skating can definitely get worse as well as improve; it doesn't just stay at whichever base level you get it to

 

I think he's pretty much playing the same, in a different system, with worse linemates, and some worse luck. 

Reinhart when paired with good players => Good

 

When not => Bad

 

Water is wet

 

https://twitter.com/TimDanielsBR/status/943576546329145344

 

[Thorny]

Again, tough for a pass first facilitator to have much success when you are passing to such established finishers as Johan Larsson and Jordan Nolan :bag:

Right - it's basically a group failure at this point. The only player that has exceeded my expectations is Evander Kane. Everyone else is under performing from what my expectations were at the start of the year.

Pouliot? Stepped right in off the Free Agent heap and surpassed Sam. Probably because he can skate. Plenty underperforming compared to expectations, but none so far as Sam, I'd wager.

 

I don't know if your logic works here. His skating can definitely get worse as well as improve; it doesn't just stay at whichever base level you get it to

 

I think he's pretty much playing the same, in a different system, with worse linemates, and some worse luck.

 

If his skating has truly regressed, we are in an even worse spot with him. As the league is definitely trending faster. There is also only a much a player can do to improve their natural skating ability. Reinhart is a third year pro, what we see in his skating is what we are going to get.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[WildCard]

Pouliot? Stepped right in off the Free Agent heap and surpassed Sam. Probably because he can skate. Plenty underperforming compared to expectations, but none so far as Sam, I'd wager.

 

If his skating has truly regressed, we are in an even worse spot with him. As the league is definitely trending faster. There is also only s much a player can do to improve their natural skating ability. Reinhart is a third year pro, what we see in his skating is what we are going to get.

I think you're right but I don't know if his skating is any different. If that's what you're seeing, I'd bet it's just the system demands speed, so now he's highlighted more as not having it

[WildCard]

And go figure, props to PA for wanting a single thread for new lines. 

[Thorny]

I think you're right but I don't know if his skating is any different. If that's what you're seeing, I'd bet it's just the system demands speed, so now he's highlighted more as not having it

Ya exactly.

 

The system, and league. It's placing a spotlight on Sam's deficiencies, and he's sweating on stage.

[dudacek]

 

I think he's playing in a different system, with worse linemates, some worse luck....

 

...add some really shattered confidence over his inability to score with Seth Griffith on his wing, uncertainty over his current role with the team, and a -up power play where he has been completely marginalized and that is more or less where I am.

 

I am not making excuses for him. He is responsible for his poor play and he is responsible for fixing it.

He’s not as good as I thought he was. He’s better than how he is being portrayed.

[Thorny]

...add some really shattered confidence over his inability to score with Seth Griffith on his wing, uncertainty over his current role with the team, and a ######-up power play where he has been completely marginalized and that is more or less where I am.

I am not making excuses for him. He is responsible for his poor play and he is responsible for fixing it.

He’s not as good as I thought he was. He’s better than how he is being portrayed.

Do you have any fear that his most lacking skill is one that's being ever magnified by the state of the league? That there's more of a focus on skating than ever before, and he's falling behind that curve?

 

I don't think enough thought is being given to the notion that, potentially, Sam doesn't have the raw skills to be able to overcome.

 

System. Linemmates. Luck. Confidence. Uncertainty. Power-Play. Am I the only one that thinks: Ability? Specifically, skating. And skating in this league.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[WildCard]

Do you have any fear that his most lacking skill is one that's being ever magnified by the state of the league? That there's more of a focus on skating than ever before, and he's falling behind that curve?

 

I don't think enough thought is being given to the notion that, potentially, Sam doesn't have the raw skills to be able to overcome.

 

System. Linemmates. Luck. Confidence. Uncertainty. Power-Play. Am I the only one that thinks: Ability? Specifically, skating. And skating in this league.

I mean you can be successful while skating slow. Look at Thornton. He's ancient, can't skate for , and is still good. Same with Jagr for the past couple years; Kopitar ain't exactly fleet of foot either

[Thorny]

I mean you can be successful while skating slow. Look at Thornton. He's ancient, can't skate for ######, and is still good. Same with Jagr for the past couple years; Kopitar ain't exactly fleet of foot either

Players that carved out their place and reputation in a much slower league. Plus, the first two are among the greatest of all time. Kopitar among the best in the game today. Touch act to follow.

 

It can be done, but it's exceptionally difficult. It's the same argument with smaller players, though less so today: A smaller player CAN succeed in the NHL, but they need to be exceptionally talented. Sam's other attributes need to be busting the door down if his skating is mediocre.