Kane with Eichel: Stop it!

[qwksndmonster]

Kane and Jack together are really bad defensively. Girgensons and Pommers are such perfect compliments to Eichel because neither are high end players on their own and they guarantee that the play is going to be flowing through Eichel (which we want AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE).

 

I don't think Phil has done anywhere near enough homework on this roster. The tape is all there from the Bylsma era. Obviously it's logical to want to try combinations in your own system, but Phil should have seen more than enough so far THIS year to have fixed the lines, or at least to try something different.

 

I still think he'll teach this team how to play real hockey, but I'm very concerned about Phil as a coach long-term.

[3putt]

As a coach, I think it is hard for Housley to seem to be demoting the one guy who is doing what he asks and is putting forth max effort.  It is a catch 22 for him. I agree that they are a bad combo, but Kane is hustling and giving max effort.  

[qwksndmonster]

As a coach, I think it is hard for Housley to seem to be demoting the one guy who is doing what he asks and is putting forth max effort. It is a catch 22 for him. I agree that they are a bad combo, but Kane is hustling and giving max effort.

Putting your players in a position to succeed is not demoting them. I think Kane, who's frequently been put on teams' "third" lines would understand. If he doesn't, then he's no professional.

[That Aud Smell]

Kane and Jack together are really bad defensively. Girgensons and Pommers are such perfect compliments to Eichel because neither are high end players on their own and they guarantee that the play is going to be flowing through Eichel (which we want AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE).

 

Agree with this to a point.

 

But, as for 28 and 29: Perfect complements? I'd definitely say "serviceable" and even at times "good." But if this team is going to accomplish anything, they need to find Robin to Jack's Batman. Hot Daniel was sure that Reinhart could be that Robin. There had been hope for that Swedish prospect whose name, honest to God, I can't recall right now (I ate a big lunch). And if not either of them, perhaps Casey? 

Edited October 27, 2017 by That Aud Smell

[Thorny]

Since game 2, Eichel and Kane have played a role in one even-strength goal for together, despite spending 23 of those 27 periods together. In those 4 periods apart, Eichel and Girgensons, the combo that has always done well and we've been calling for since before last season, played a role in 3 even-strength goals for. 

 

Even not accounting for stats, the two skate into each other's lanes and have no idea how to read each other. Note the shorthanded rush where they were on top of each other the whole time, or the fact that the only offense they ever create is when one or the other rushes the puck by themselves. They are also both large defensive liabilities, their shifts in recent games have killed the momentum that other lines have generated by possessing the puck, especially in the first two periods of the Columbus game. Also, Kane missing the open nets that Jack gives him perpetually. The miss in the one-goal Vancouver game was devastating. 

 

It simply doesn't make any sense to continue playing these guys together. 2 even strength goals have been scored for Buffalo with Eichel and Kane both taking part, in 11 games. They screw up cycles, they both make bad decisions with the puck, and they both get perpetually hemmed in their own zone. We are neutering our best player by playing him with a guy who has negative chemistry with him. 

 

Sure, let them PK together. Let them play with an empty net at the end and 6 attackers. But stop hampering our best player at even strength, especially when doing so means having 2 garbage ineffective lines at the bottom instead of 1. 

 

Girgensons - Eichel - Reinhart

Pouliot - ROR - Okposo 

Kane - Larsson - Bailey 

 

Boom. Fixed. Edit: I even forgot about Pominville. He can slide in somewhere, surely. If phil wants to keep Sam at center then have Larsson on the 4th, Sam in his spot, and Pominville with Eich and Zemgus.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. But to the bolded, it's been 4 goals ES they've both been in on.

[Randall Flagg]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. But to the bolded, it's been 4 goals ES they've both been in on.

I've got LA and at NYI. All the other ones that I saw were with a goalie pulled, on the PP, or short-handed. Which ones am I missing?

[Thorny]

1 in each of the games against the Habs, Isles, Kings, and Golden Knights.

 

Edit - Knights was with goalie pulled.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

1 in each of the games against the Habs, Isles, Kings, and Golden Knights.

Golden Knights was with the goalie pulled and a PP, and I didn't see the Habs goal which is why I forgot about it :lol:

Edited October 27, 2017 by Randall Flagg

[Thorny]

Golden Knights was with the goalie pulled and a PP, and I didn't see the Habs goal which is why I forgot about it :lol;

Yup. Teamwork. Hey, we got there in the end :p

 

I remember the Habs goal because it was a sick pass from Jack.

[qwksndmonster]

Agree with this to a point.

 

But, as for 28 and 29: Perfect complements? I'd definitely say "serviceable" and even at times "good." But if this team is going to accomplish anything, they need to find Robin to Jack's Batman. Hot Daniel was sure that Reinhart could be that Robin. There had been hope for that Swedish prospect whose name, honest to God, I can't recall right now (I ate a big lunch). And if not either of them, perhaps Casey?

Jack doesn't need a Robin. He needs linemates to make the most of his talents. Zemgus is going to sacrifice his body to get Jack the puck and he's going to be in the crease to cash in on some choice opportunities. Meanwhile, Pommers is going to continue to get to the soft spots in the D and finish Jack's perfect passes. Then the rest of the talent can be used to fill out 2 good lines.

 

We can add breaking up 28-15-29 to the growing list of things that Housley has tried to fix even though it wasn't broken.

[Taro T]

Jack doesn't need a Robin. He needs linemates to make the most of his talents. Zemgus is going to sacrifice his body to get Jack the puck and he's going to be in the crease to cash in on some choice opportunities. Meanwhile, Pommers is going to continue to get to the soft spots in the D and finish Jack's perfect passes. Then the rest of the talent can be used to fill out 2 good lines.

We can add breaking up 28-15-29 to the growing list of things that Housley has tried to fix even though it wasn't broken.

He doesn't. But it would be awesome if they found him one.

 

As it is, it appears at present that they don't have one on this team; it certainly isn't Kane at any rate.

 

But they've put together a line that does a passable impersonation of the 3 Amigos. It would be real nice to see Housley give them a chance to show whether that was real (my guess) or an aberation.

[That Aud Smell]

The idea that Eichel doesn’t need a high-end (i.e., jigh-performance) pairing seems misguided to me.

[qwksndmonster]

The idea that Eichel doesn’t need a high-end (i.e., jigh-performance) pairing seems misguided to me.

I'm not against it. I think O'Reilly is the most logical winger for Eichel on the current rostwr but we need him at center until Reinhart and Okposo get going.

 

But part of the luxury of having a superstar center is that he can produce with the right complimentary players and give flexibility to the rest of the forward lines. I don't think that's misguided.

[Weave]

The idea that Eichel doesn’t need a high-end (i.e., jigh-performance) pairing seems misguided to me.

 

I don't think Jack has the ability to do it without real good talent at wing.  Hell, Gilbert wasn't good enough to do it without solid wing talent. 

 

I'm not against it. I think O'Reilly is the most logical winger for Eichel on the current rostwr but we need him at center until Reinhart and Okposo get going.

 

But part of the luxury of having a superstar center is that he can produce with the right complimentary players and give flexibility to the rest of the forward lines. I don't think that's misguided.

 

Reinhart isn't going to replace ROR at center.

Edited October 27, 2017 by We've

[Pokey Jones]

Ok, before the season started Housley stated emphatically he wanted this team to be fast, he believed Eichel was at his best playing fast, and he wanted the top line to up it's tempo. This is why Reinhart has not played with Jack aside from the PP and Jack has been paired with the best skaters on the team. This won't change.

This is also why I liked the move of Bailey on that line, they just need him to use his body more and get in the dirty areas more. He has the size and speed, he just needs more fearless desire and animosity to be a good compliment for them. 

 

and yes, if you want to trade Kane you want his numbers as high as possible but you also see if he is a compliment for Jack and if they are amazing together maybe you sign him (I still wouldn't) but either way, there are few alternatives. I am sure you won't see a slower player on that line.  

[3putt]

Putting your players in a position to succeed is not demoting them. I think Kane, who's frequently been put on teams' "third" lines would understand. If he doesn't, then he's no professional.

It's the perception.   Jack leads in toi.  Whoever he plays with is getting max toi.  To move Kane to a third line, behind ROR, would be perceived as a demotion by most looking at the situation.  Perception is reality.  I think it is the right move but how do the Larrsons and others who do the shyte jobs perceive a loss of toi to a guy who is doing what he is asked?  Tough call for Dr. Phil.

[Pokey Jones]

I'm just curious, but when has Kane been "frequently put on teams third lines" ?

[3putt]

Winnipeg.  And last year.

[qwksndmonster]

Reinhart isn't going to replace ROR at center.

Well that solves that then. Better never try.

[Pokey Jones]

Winnipeg.  And last year.

Guess it was the word "frequently" that made me wonder.