deluca67 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 The bottom third roster? I think the Sabres have been getting a ton of production out of lines 3 and 4, and the third D pairing. By bottom third, I meant the roster (minus Miller) is bottom third in the league in most statistical categories Miller doesn't directly effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 [/b] It will end if Miller's play drops off. So now someone wants to discredit hits? Before it was shots allowed. I guess if I keep the thread going someone will try to discredit the turnovers, takeaways and power play stats. Lack of blocked shots not far behind. The "bottom line is the the bottom line?" If a businessman is staring at the bottom line and not studying all the trends and indicators he wont be in business for long. A good businessman breaks down his success in order to find weaknesses and implement changes to strengthen his business. Right now the Sabres foundation (Miller) looks solid. And the Sabres should be able to ride Miller into the playoffs. If they want to do anything in the playoffs they need to do something with the rest of their bottom third roster. Or bring someone in who can get more out of them. Yeah, and then somebody might even try to discredit the most important stat of all: wins. Oh wait, you're already doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yeah, and then somebody might even try to discredit the most important stat of all: wins. Oh wait, you're already doing that. I give full credit for wins. I give it to Miller where it belongs. :thumbsup: I can do so without manufacturing myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I give full credit for wins. I give it to Miller where it belongs. :thumbsup: I can do so without manufacturing myths. Yeah, especially against the Pens on Tuesday...thank goodness Miller was there to bail us out. :) You do realize we're 3-1-1 in Lalime's last 5 games, right? And that includes wins against PIT and CHI. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end the curse Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Miller has been excellent, but you'd have to be incredibly naiive to believe that the play in front of him is not a huge part of his success, or the success of the team as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Yeah, especially against the Pens on Tuesday...thank goodness Miller was there to bail us out. :) You do realize we're 3-1-1 in Lalime's last 5 games, right? And that includes wins against PIT and CHI. :thumbsup: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Miller has been excellent, but you'd have to be incredibly naiive to believe that the play in front of him is not a huge part of his success, or the success of the team as a whole. Naive is not being able to objectively look at this team as see it for what it is. Miller has been better than excellent. He has been elite. To try to take away from his carrying of this team is a insult to one of the best non-Hasek goalie performances this franchise has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 By bottom third, I meant the roster (minus Miller) is bottom third in the league in most statistical categories Miller doesn't directly effect. Your logic is like a cypher. Tell us which statistics we should be watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end the curse Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Naive is not being able to objectively look at this team as see it for what it is. Miller has been better than excellent. He has been elite. To try to take away from his carrying of this team is a insult to one of the best non-Hasek goalie performances this franchise has ever seen. Miller has been excellent, but better than excellent is very hard to quantify. The team in front of him has been excellent, too. Better than the Cup year with Hasek, actually, so while you are correct in one respect, you are wrong in another. Still, half right is better than not right at all. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 This conversation is just to heated. I'll stick with what someone else stated in here, if they fail to show any competitiveness in the playoffs, Ruff and Reiger should go. I don't think Ruff is labeled as a bad coach, but after so many seasons here it may very well be best for both the organization and Ruff if they part ways. On the OP looking at Ruff to Levy, 2 different sports, 2 entirely seperate set of circumstances all together. Levy was a good coach, 4 SB appearances in a row speaks not only to the team talent, but to Marv as well. The same can be said on Ruff, he did get the Sabres to 3 ECF's in 11 seasons. But, just as it was Marv's time to go, if a vast improvement doesn't happen with the Sabres, then it would be fair to say it may be Lindy's time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 This conversation is just to heated. I'll stick with what someone else stated in here, if they fail to show any competitiveness in the playoffs, Ruff and Reiger should go. Agreed. I think I can safely say that nearly everyone on SabreSpace would agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Your logic is like a cypher. Tell us which statistics we should be watching. I listed them pages back. It is quite shocking how bad they are in certain areas. The last in hits was a shocker. They rank poorly in pretty much all the defensive categories. Shots allowed, blocked shots and takeaways for the best examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. :doh: Hey, I'm done man. We both want the same thing ultimately. Happy New Year to you, and GO SABRES! :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hey, I'm done man. We both want the same thing ultimately. Happy New Year to you, and GO SABRES! :beer: After four plus years your are the first person to respond to the same post twice. :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end the curse Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 After four plus years your are the first person to respond to the same post twice. :w00t: Perhaps, but he responded in a great way. Happy new year to all of us Sabre faithful! Time for another martini! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 After four plus years your are the first person to respond to the same post twice. :w00t: I highly doubt that, but whatever. Stay classy! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I listed them pages back. It is quite shocking how bad they are in certain areas. The last in hits was a shocker. They rank poorly in pretty much all the defensive categories. Shots allowed, blocked shots and takeaways for the best examples. The trouble with statistics is that they are hard to contextualize I think you'll find there is a high correlation between holding leads and not hitting. Sabres may be last in hits, but I can't remember a time this year they have blown a lead. Or gone for a hit and taken the hold or hooking minor. As for shots against.....those can be misleading. When Sabres play teams from the West they almost always allow shots from the outside until teams figure out the Sabres play it as a turnover by design. The Sabres block very few shots low these days. 2005-06 half the goals against seemed to bounce off of McKee or Kalinin. They seem to prefer to block shots high these days...or go right to Miller. It's been working fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 The trouble with statistics is that they are hard to contextualize I think you'll find there is a high correlation between holding leads and not hitting. Sabres may be last in hits, but I can't remember a time this year they have blown a lead. Or gone for a hit and taken the hold or hooking minor. As for shots against.....those can be misleading. When Sabres play teams from the West they almost always allow shots from the outside until teams figure out the Sabres play it as a turnover by design. The Sabres block very few shots low these days. 2005-06 half the goals against seemed to bounce off of McKee or Kalinin. They seem to prefer to block shots high these days...or go right to Miller. It's been working fine. Well, they haven't lost once after leading after 2 and IIRC they have 3 L's and 2 OTL's after leading after 1. Those are incredible stats. But I'm sure there are some that will find a problem with those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Let me the first to say: 10 more years! And a very happy and healthy new year to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 The trouble with statistics is that they are hard to contextualize I think you'll find there is a high correlation between holding leads and not hitting. Sabres may be last in hits, but I can't remember a time this year they have blown a lead. Or gone for a hit and taken the hold or hooking minor. As for shots against.....those can be misleading. When Sabres play teams from the West they almost always allow shots from the outside until teams figure out the Sabres play it as a turnover by design. The Sabres block very few shots low these days. 2005-06 half the goals against seemed to bounce off of McKee or Kalinin. They seem to prefer to block shots high these days...or go right to Miller. It's been working fine. Not to mention that the "hits" statistic is kind of bogus anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 The trouble with statistics is that they are hard to contextualize I think you'll find there is a high correlation between holding leads and not hitting. Sabres may be last in hits, but I can't remember a time this year they have blown a lead. Or gone for a hit and taken the hold or hooking minor. As for shots against.....those can be misleading. When Sabres play teams from the West they almost always allow shots from the outside until teams figure out the Sabres play it as a turnover by design. The Sabres block very few shots low these days. 2005-06 half the goals against seemed to bounce off of McKee or Kalinin. They seem to prefer to block shots high these days...or go right to Miller. It's been working fine. I would agree, to a point as to say not one statistical category can tell a complete story. How does it go? Once is a occurrence, twice a coincidence and three or more a trend. I see enough of a trend that causes me great concern. When we get to the end of the year and hopefully to the playoffs I would rather the Sabres not depend solely on Miller to get them by as they do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Well, they haven't lost once after leading after 2 and IIRC they have 3 L's and 2 OTL's after leading after 1. Those are incredible stats. But I'm sure there are some that will find a problem with those too. Great stats that hopefully Vezina and Hart voters look at this year. Miller has done a great job of slamming the door at that crucial time. The Sabres defense is not shutting teams down late in games. Miller has been the difference. Stat of the day : Goals against by period - 1st 30 -1 in goal differential 2nd 27 +8 in goal differential 3rd 29 +10 in goal differential This is a healthy trend. The numbers could be more staggering if the Sabres had any consistent offensive threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 I would agree, to a point as to say not one statistical category can tell a complete story. How does it go? Once is a occurrence, twice a coincidence and three or more a trend. I see enough of a trend that causes me great concern. When we get to the end of the year and hopefully to the playoffs I would rather the Sabres not depend solely on Miller to get them by as they do now. they obviously don't "solely" rely on Miller to get them wins or they would have lost the past 2 games being down 3-0 each game...last time I checked Miller still had 0 goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 The Sabres defense is not shutting teams down late in games. Miller has been the difference. Again, a very biased opinion based on seeing what you want. The Sabres have in fact "slammed the door" numerous times by allowing almost no good shots to the net in the 3rd period many times this year when leading. Yes the teams have had offensive zone time, but they have rarely had a shot from inside the top of the circle. More often they cycle the puck and end up turning it over as the Sabres wait for the right time to force the issue. Or they get heir shot blocked and the Sabres dump to center ice. Or they take a bad shot from way out that Miller easily stops with no rebound. Lately not so much, but earlier in the year the defense played a huge part in those wins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Again, a very biased opinion based on seeing what you want. The Sabres have in fact "slammed the door" numerous times by allowing almost no good shots to the net in the 3rd period many times this year when leading. Yes the teams have had offensive zone time, but they have rarely had a shot from inside the top of the circle. More often they cycle the puck and end up turning it over as the Sabres wait for the right time to force the issue. Or they get heir shot blocked and the Sabres dump to center ice. Or they take a bad shot from way out that Miller easily stops with no rebound. Lately not so much, but earlier in the year the defense played a huge part in those wins... I guess the Sabres only block shots during the crucial part of the game considering they are 24th in the league in blocked shots. Talk about seeing what you want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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