Knightrider Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Link Imagine him taking a seat for his teammates... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Yeah but thats a tough spot to be in. That's why i always wished Marty Biron all the best when he left us, because he was such a huge pro when he sat on our bench and he never complained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Yeah but thats a tough spot to be in. That's why i always wished Marty Biron all the best when he left us, because he was such a huge pro when he sat on our bench and he never complained. Biron never complained and he also was a great supporter for the Sabres. Biron is a great teammate. That is the biggest thing I miss about him being a backup to Miller. Oh, I guess he was pretty good at playing goalie too. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedesessed Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 So Hasek being completely honest about his desires to play, but yet backing Ozzie 100 percent, are a bad thing? Honesty > Lying just so people think you are happy. How quickly all of you forget how dominant Hasek was in Buffalo, and was the sole reason for the long awaited success of the Sabres in the playoffs in the mid to late 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 So Hasek being completely honest about his desires to play, but yet backing Ozzie 100 percent, are a bad thing? Honesty > Lying just so people think you are happy. How quickly all of you forget how dominant Hasek was in Buffalo, and was the sole reason for the long awaited success of the Sabres in the playoffs in the mid to late 90's. No one is quick to forget how dominant he was, but are you quick to forget how he left Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Enabler Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Link Imagine him taking a seat for his teammates... ;) He could come through this smelling like a rose without doing a thing or be the savior, or maybe the goat out of this. Either way, its better than kicking rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR HOLLIDAY Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 No one is quick to forget how dominant he was, but are you quick to forget how he left Buffalo? LOL, I guess he forgot about that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 No one is quick to forget how dominant he was, but are you quick to forget how he left Buffalo? He wanted a chance for a Cup. What's wrong with that? He gave enough to this City and this Franchise. He deserved a chance to be a little selfish. He was, without a doubt, the greatest athlete to wear a uniform representing a professional team from Buffalo. No Sabre, No Bill, No any team was greater than Hasek was. Hasek got us to a Final we had no business being in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 He wanted a chance for a Cup. What's wrong with that? He gave enough to this City and this Franchise. He deserved a chance to be a little selfish. He was, without a doubt, the greatest athlete to wear a uniform representing a professional team from Buffalo. No Sabre, No Bill, No any team was greater than Hasek was. Hasek got us to a Final we had no business being in. Again, no one is disputing his dominance, or the fact that he was often the only true NHL'er on the Sabres' roster. He is one of those players I am looking forward to telling my kids and grandkids about - how I watched him play live, how he had unreal reflexes and made saves no one thought was possible, and how he absolutely dominated during his Buffalo tenure. But to say he just wanted a chance for a Cup is a gross oversimplification and revisionist history at its very best. For the superstar who has languished on bad teams and wants to somewhere else to win the Cup before retiring, there are two polar opposite ways you can go about it -- you can go the Ray Borque route, do your lobbying behind the scenes and make sure your intentions are known and be gracious about the chance to go somewhere with a true Cup contender, or you can choose the route Dom took -- pull the old "he goes or I go" routine with regards to Nolan, force the coach out and players loyal to him, then threaten to retire if you are not traded to a Cup contender, threaten to retire if you ask for too much in the deal, and force the franchise who gave you your shot into taking on a malcontent who counted the days until he was out of Buffalo. That's what is wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxhurtz Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 He wanted a chance for a Cup. What's wrong with that? He gave enough to this City and this Franchise. He deserved a chance to be a little selfish. He was, without a doubt, the greatest athlete to wear a uniform representing a professional team from Buffalo. No Sabre, No Bill, No any team was greater than Hasek was. Hasek got us to a Final we had no business being in. You're right. In my opinion, if previous ownership would have put a better team in front of Hasek, we would have been multiple time Stanley Cup champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Again, no one is disputing his dominance, or the fact that he was often the only true NHL'er on the Sabres' roster. He is one of those players I am looking forward to telling my kids and grandkids about - how I watched him play live, how he had unreal reflexes and made saves no one thought was possible, and how he absolutely dominated during his Buffalo tenure. That's a huge overstatement ... the only true NHL'er? It's 10 years since the ECF team in '98 and nine years since the Cup Final run in '99 ... Satan, Peca, Curtis Brown, Zhitnik, Sanderson, Primeau, McKee, Barnes, Warrener, Sarich, Roloson and Biron all played on that 1999 team and are STILL in the NHL ... go back to 1998 and throw in Brad May, still playing ... how the hell did they all hang around for 10 more years if they were not true NHLers? He also played several seasons with LaFontaine, Mogilny and Hawerchuk ... I agree he was the best player and carried the team for long, long stretches ... but let's not make it out that he was playing behind an ECHL team here ...even the year they missed the playoffs with him LaFontaine had 91 points on a team with Randy Burridge, Garry Galley, Peca, May, Zhitnik .... they were not GREAT teams but they were not devoid of NHL talent either. He was by far the best player on mostly average teams, give him all his credit, but come on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 He wanted a chance for a Cup. What's wrong with that? He gave enough to this City and this Franchise. He deserved a chance to be a little selfish. He was, without a doubt, the greatest athlete to wear a uniform representing a professional team from Buffalo. No Sabre, No Bill, No any team was greater than Hasek was. Hasek got us to a Final we had no business being in. I think this is sign #2 of the apocalypse, I agree 100% with something Deluca wrote. If you look closely, I think they are playing pond hockey on that lake of fire in Hell right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 That's a huge overstatement ... the only true NHL'er? It's 10 years since the ECF team in '98 and nine years since the Cup Final run in '99 ... Satan, Peca, Curtis Brown, Zhitnik, Sanderson, Primeau, McKee, Barnes, Warrener, Sarich, Roloson and Biron all played on that 1999 team and are STILL in the NHL ... go back to 1998 and throw in Brad May, still playing ... how the hell did they all hang around for 10 more years if they were not true NHLers? He also played several seasons with LaFontaine, Mogilny and Hawerchuk ... I agree he was the best player and carried the team for long, long stretches ... but let's not make it out that he was playing behind an ECHL team here ...even the year they missed the playoffs with him LaFontaine had 91 points on a team with Randy Burridge, Garry Galley, Peca, May, Zhitnik .... they were not GREAT teams but they were not devoid of NHL talent either. He was by far the best player on mostly average teams, give him all his credit, but come on ... It's called hyperbole, BTP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 It's called hyperbole, BTP. The guy won 6 Vezina Trophies and 2 Hart Trophies as a Sabre, I don't think you need to use hyperbole to defend his legacy, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The guy won 6 Vezina Trophies and 2 Hart Trophies as a Sabre, I don't think you need to use hyperbole to defend his legacy, that's all. The point was he carried some teams that were devoid of talent and often overmatched deep into the playoffs. A lot of the Sabres' teams he backstopped were regularly outshot by large margins and he won a lot of 2-1, 1-0 games. Considering we weren't playing a trap/lock/defensive scheme that doesn't exactly scream "tons of talent" among the skaters. Roster semantics aside, Hasek was clearly the best player on the roster for most of his tenure with Buffalo, and it is understandable if he came to the conclusion that the FO was not capable of putting a true Cup contender on the ice in front of him, and that his best chance at a Cup was elsewhere. It was the way he orchestrated his departure that should stick in everyone's craw, and frankly I am a little surprised at the number of people giving him a pass for the way he left and how he damaged the team in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The point was he carried some teams that were devoid of talent and often overmatched deep into the playoffs. A lot of the Sabres' teams he backstopped were regularly outshot by large margins and he won a lot of 2-1, 1-0 games. Considering we weren't playing a trap/lock/defensive scheme that doesn't exactly scream "tons of talent" among the skaters. Roster semantics aside, Hasek was clearly the best player on the roster for most of his tenure with Buffalo, and it is understandable if he came to the conclusion that the FO was not capable of putting a true Cup contender on the ice in front of him, and that his best chance at a Cup was elsewhere. It was the way he orchestrated his departure that should stick in everyone's craw, and frankly I am a little surprised at the number of people giving him a pass for the way he left and how he damaged the team in the process. Absolutely could not agree more. And the first goal in game six was soft. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 It was the way he orchestrated his departure that should stick in everyone's craw, and frankly I am a little surprised at the number of people giving him a pass for the way he left and how he damaged the team in the process. OK, I guess I just got over it ... it's been like 7 years ... not saying I liked it, but I didn't like my girlfriend breaking up with me in 1994 either, but I got over it. It was a jerk move, I am acknowledging it as such. I am not saying it was OK, I was pissed at him for a long time ... I still don't LIKE it ... but for me, it doesn't completely erase everything he did before that. I don't think that is "giving him a pass." Giving him a pass would be to say he had a right to act like he did. I don't think that at all, he was way out of line. You yourself have referred to the team in front of him as "devoid of talent" (more of that hyperbole, I assume) ... so what did his actions do to hurt Buffalo, really? I mean, the team was devoid of talent. They were never going to win anything anyway, because they would not put the talent around him, right? So I got over it. It's not like the guy broke up the 76-77 Canadiens here and ruined a dynasty. They sucked for 3 years after that because they had no depth in the organization ... the team was damaged whether he left or not. I would prefer he did it differently, but he's completely insane, we knew this, what can I tell you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK, I guess I just got over it ... it's been like 7 years ... not saying I liked it, but I didn't like my girlfriend breaking up with me in 1994 either, but I got over it. It was a jerk move, I am acknowledging it as such. I am not saying it was OK, I was pissed at him for a long time ... I still don't LIKE it ... but for me, it doesn't completely erase everything he did before that. I don't think that is "giving him a pass." Giving him a pass would be to say he had a right to act like he did. I don't think that at all, he was way out of line.You yourself have referred to the team in front of him as "devoid of talent" (more of that hyperbole, I assume) ... so what did his actions do to hurt Buffalo, really? I mean, the team was devoid of talent. They were never going to win anything anyway, because they would not put the talent around him, right? So I got over it. It's not like the guy broke up the 76-77 Canadiens here and ruined a dynasty. They sucked for 3 years after that because they had no depth in the organization ... the team was damaged whether he left or not. I would prefer he did it differently, but he's completely insane, we knew this, what can I tell you? Yeah I've gotten over ex-girlfriends too, but that doesn't mean I've forgotten when they've acted like [rhymes with witches] nor have I necessarily forgiven some of them for what they did. Seriously you don't see how his actions hurt Buffalo? Really? Dom's actions robbed the franchise of their only true superstar, a future HoF'er, the one guy they built their marketing around and the one guy who gave that team legitimacy in the NHL at that time. You honestly don't think that had Hasek gone to management the right way and requested his trade like a professional we could have garnered more on the trade market than Slava freakin' Kozlov and a 1st-round draft pick? The Patrick Roy trade brought Mike Keane, Thibault, Martin Rucinsky and Kovalenko to Montreal. That package looks a heck of a lot better than Slava Kozlov. They could have gotten some serious building blocks or gotten some rising talent, but instead Dom acted like a spoiled prima donna brat and threatened to retire if we got too much in return. And no, the devoid of talent comment wasn't more hyperbole. I look at the teams from the late 90s and see a lot of "star-caliber" talent - names like Holzinger, Dawe, Plante, Grosek, Dixon Ward, Wayne Primeau dotted the 97-98 roster, and the leading scorer was Satan with 46 points in 79 games. The 98-99 team was better, but still featured Holzinger, Ward, Grosek and perpetual disappointments Primeau and Rasmussen. Leading scorer was Satan, this time with a world-beating 66 points in 81 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 ...or you can choose the route Dom took -- pull the old "he goes or I go" routine with regards to Nolan, force the coach out and players loyal to him, then threaten to retire if you are not traded to a Cup contender, threaten to retire if you ask for too much in the deal, and force the franchise who gave you your shot into taking on a malcontent who counted the days until he was out of Buffalo. That's what is wrong with that. ...and none of that is why I think the guy is a major league dueche bag. Some fans hold him in a place that no mere mortal can live but I tend to think he dwells in the lower sanctum of society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 ...and none of that is why I think the guy is a major league dueche bag. Some fans hold him in a place that no mere mortal can live but I tend to think he dwells in the lower sanctum of society. I'm not asking him to act like a god or anything like that, just asking him to act like a freaking professional. Instead he acted like a spoiled brat for the last couple years of his time here, threw a tantrum and threatened to take his ball and go home if he didn't get his way. It's interesting to me how he can do the right thing by establishing Hasek's Heroes and keep funding it and working with it even though he is no longer in Buffalo, but acts like such a jackass in other areas of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Seriously you don't see how his actions hurt Buffalo? Really? Dom's actions robbed the franchise of their only true superstar, a future HoF'er, the one guy they built their marketing around and the one guy who gave that team legitimacy in the NHL at that time. I DO see how it hurt them. My point is, for me to hold a grudge for this long, you have to really take something from me that is enormously valuable and that I can't get back. And you keep telling me over and over how the rest of the team sucked ... so what did Hasek really take from me? His departure did not cost the Sabres a Stanley Cup. His presence gave them a shot at it one a couple times, but that team he left behind was not of that caliber. You have insisted that the team put nothing around him, so don't they have to share the blame for not having someone else they can market the team around or give that team legitimacy in the NHL at that time? You honestly don't think that had Hasek gone to management the right way and requested his trade like a professional we could have garnered more on the trade market than Slava freakin' Kozlov and a 1st-round draft pick? The Patrick Roy trade brought Mike Keane, Thibault, Martin Rucinsky and Kovalenko to Montreal. That package looks a heck of a lot better than Slava Kozlov. They could have gotten some serious building blocks or gotten some rising talent, but instead Dom acted like a spoiled prima donna brat and threatened to retire if we got too much in return. I honestly DO think they could have gotten more had he acted differently ... that's one of the reasons I was pissed. But looking back on it, it would not have been THAT much more that I can hate him forever. You don't trade a Hasek unless you HAVE to trade him ... every team would have known the deal, you never get full value in a situation like that. And there is no way they get a Roy-type deal ... Roy was 30 years old and in his prime ... Hasek was 36 and TWO FULL YEARS BEFORE had declared he was retiring after the 1999-00 season to raise his kids in the Czech Republic. he only came back because he got hurt that season and wanted to take a run at the Cup in 2000-01 ... now, if you are a GM, are you paying through the nose for an insane 36-year old who already announced his intentions to retire once? In fact, he did quit after winning that Cup in 2002 and did not play in 2002-03. Anyone who was trading for him had to figure they'd have him for a year or two, tops. No one expected him to hang around this long, not even him. And no, the devoid of talent comment wasn't more hyperbole. I look at the teams from the late 90s and see a lot of "star-caliber" talent - names like Holzinger, Dawe, Plante, Grosek, Dixon Ward, Wayne Primeau dotted the 97-98 roster, and the leading scorer was Satan with 46 points in 79 games. The 98-99 team was better, but still featured Holzinger, Ward, Grosek and perpetual disappointments Primeau and Rasmussen. Leading scorer was Satan, this time with a world-beating 66 points in 81 games. Again, you can name me 10 guys who sucked and I gave you 10 guys who are still playing in the league. I never said they were "stars" ... but either way, if they sucked that bad, then they were going to suck slightly worse with hasek still on the team. At the time I was royally pissed but 7 years later I see that all his childish, selfish actions cost the Sabres was another first-round playoff exit if he stayed or maybe another decent prospect and a draft pick if he left more nicely. He was not fetching a boatload of talent that would have keyed a Cup run or something. So I point out that he is completely insane every chance I get, and I acknowledge him as a great, great player. If that is giving him a pass, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sorry, BTP. There are a lot of (to me) logical holes in your response, in addition to a couple strawmen that you keep throwing out there, but for sake of sanity I am bowing out now. He's a great player who has also acted like a spoiled brat everywhere he has gone, and now all the of the sudden we're supposed to fall all over him and respect him because he is NOT acting like the jackass he was for much of his career? Sorry, not buying it. And there is no way in hell I am giving him a pass for the way he held the franchise for ransom on his way out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sorry, BTP. There are a lot of (to me) logical holes in your response, in addition to a couple strawmen that you keep throwing out there, but for sake of sanity I am bowing out now. He's a great player who has also acted like a spoiled brat everywhere he has gone, and now all the of the sudden we're supposed to fall all over him and respect him because he is NOT acting like the jackass he was for much of his career? Sorry, not buying it. And there is no way in hell I am giving him a pass for the way he held the franchise for ransom on his way out of town. When did I ever say anything about how he is acting now or that I "respect" him? I have been consistent since he attcked Jim Kelley that he is clearly insane and you have no idea what the guy is going to do next and I agree he is a spoiled brat. he's also one of the greatest players of all time. Why can't I separate the two? I can't respect his accomplishments? Is there no gray area? It's either I hate him or I am giving him a pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 When did I ever say anything about how he is acting now or that I "respect" him? I have been consistent since he attcked Jim Kelley that he is clearly insane and you have no idea what the guy is going to do next and I agree he is a spoiled brat. he's also one of the greatest players of all time. Why can't I separate the two? I can't respect his accomplishments? Is there no gray area? It's either I hate him or I am giving him a pass? Where in my post did I say any of that? Where did I say that you personally weren't separating the two or were giving him a pass or commenting on his actions? Go back and read the whole thread and the article that started the whole thing. The article basically sang his praises for sitting on the bench like a good boy while Ozzie shined, and then some posters chimed in to lecture us on how we've forgotten how good he was in a Sabres uniform. That was what I was referring to with my comments, and that's why I put it in a new paragraph and not directly under one of your posts. The second paragraph was just my thoughts on the entire thread. If I have a problem with something you post I'll respond directly, I'm not going to make some vague offhand reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 So when you talked about "giving him a pass," you were just talking about the article, and not me? Oh. Sorry. Whatever, I hate the guy more now than I did this morning because if nothing else he caused us to waste time on him. Forget everything i said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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