nfreeman

Interesting observation from Mike Harrington:

I definitely want them to try to win every GD game, simply to try to expel the losing culture that permeates this franchise. BUT if they lose a bunch of games and a weak finish convinces KA to fire DG...

I think TP is definitely embarrassed about the team's results during his ownership tenure. I also think that TP has made plenty of changes during his tenure and feels, with some justification -- since it sounds like he's heard feedback from multiple league sources to this effect -- that firing people too frequently is counterproductive. IMHO the reasons for his failures boil down to (i) approving the tank and (ii) choosing the wrong GMs in Darcy, Murray and Botteril -- each of whom was very justifiable at the time, but each of whom also cost the franchise and the fans 3 or 4 years in the desert.

Good stuff here. You should post more often! Mitts, to his credit, was continuing to improve this season, and certainly most of his teammates at forward took a step back (other than JJP). But I don't get the sense that Mitts was challenging his teammates to be better. Just the opposite -- I think they are all too nice to each other and do not sufficiently hold each other accountable -- and maybe KA thought this was a bigger failing in Mitts, one of the (relatively) older vets. Separately: I think its also worth noting that KA said multiple times at the presser that they aren't good enough and that they are unhappy with where they are as a team. I expect further changes.

Well, we're all very justified in being PO'd with this franchise, but I thought the presser was fine. If you were expecting him to say that his roster stinks and they need a major overhaul -- I don't think that's realistic. And what was realistic, and true IMHO, was his statement that if they are going to improve as a team, most of the improvement will need to be internal, by the guys who are already there. I agree with @dudacek that KA sincerely believes in his plan and most of this roster, and that he is willing to take steps that he thinks will improve the team. We're certainly entitled to be skeptical about him closing those deals, or that the deals will be effective. I may go into despair if they limp to the finish line and nevertheless bring back DG. Still, the Mitts-for-BB trade was a major move, which gives hope that KA will be willing to make a similar move at coach if he thinks it's justified. But vent if you need to vent. KA and DG deserve every ounce of opprobrium they get here for this utter and complete poop sandwich of a season.

I'll repeat what I said during the stick salute boycott fiasco: TP hates being embarrassed, and Mittelstadt saying this is embarrassing. That's 2 embarrassment strikes against KA in fairly short order. If the Sabres limp to the finish line and end up with, say, 78 pts -- that might be strike 3 for KA, or at least for DG.

FFS. Fire DG yesterday.

Bringing in EJ was a good move on paper that should've worked better than it did. If he's not on an NHL roster next year, then his not working out here was probably more on him than on the Sabres. But at this point we're guilty until proven innocent.

No. It's coaching.

Holy straw man batman. Of course the fans care more about the team winning, and of course they won't be happy if the Sabres stink again next year. The point is that when evaluating 2 players who were traded for each other, one of the biggest metrics, perhaps the biggest, is goals. This is especially true where the team stinks both before and after the trade.

Do you mean the trade is a joke? As in the Sabres should've gotten more for KO? If so, I heartily disagree.

Well, you opened the discussion of the "meaningless stat" by noting that the Sabres have scored 3 goals since Mitts' departure. If team goal-scoring is meaningless when they had Mitts, then it's also meaningless to decry the paltry team scoring since his departure. As for the terrible PP -- are you referring to the terrible PP that Mitts was a big part of (5th highest PP ice time, one of 4 forwards averaging between 2:32 and 2:55 per game)? The teams, fans and coaches all care quite a bit about who scores more goals. Your question about whether the team is better now is of course also quite relevant. My answer is that any improvement/deterioration resulting from the trade is marginal -- they stunk and had major problems before the trade, and they still do.

The Sabres are 29-30-5 for 64 pts and 18 games left. Last year, they finished 42-33-7 for 91 pts. How bad does their finish have to be for KA to fire DG? 11-5-2 gets them to 40-35-7 and 87 pts. 9-7-2 gets them to 38-37-7 and 83 pts. 7-9-2 gets them to 36-39-7 and 79 pts. 5-11-2 gets them to 34-41-7 and 75 pts. IMHO, DG should get a pink slip no matter what, although I think he's definitely safe in the 87-pt scenario and likely safe in the 83-pt scenario. Lindy would take this job in a heartbeat and he'd get much more out of this team.

FFS. They were 23rd in scoring when the great Mitts was here and they still are. Their scoring problems have zero to do with Mitts' departure. As between Byram and Mitts, who do you think will score more goals for his new team this year?

What?

I am highly skeptical that KA could've gotten more for Mitts than Byram. Frankly, I'm pretty surprised he got that much.

Like most GMs, I think KA is more inclined to trade guys he inherited (like Mitts) than guys he chose -- but would they really reduce their limited supply of RHD? It's an interesting question. Now if they wanted to trade a RHD -- Power, Savoie and a #1 for Tkachuk? In any case I would love another big move, although I fear it won't matter until a new coach is brought in.

OK -- to be clear, not all the negative reactions are purely reflexive -- but many are. Speaking of data points -- that is a nice one! If Byram plays to his potential, it won't matter what Joki and Clifton do. KA will keep him, probably on a long-term deal.

My 2 cents: - I like the trade. I've never been a fan of Mitts', and although he's developed over the years from probable washout to decent NHL forward, I sure didn't want to give him $7MM x 7 years (or more), which is what I think an extension would've cost. The characterizations in this thread of Mitts as "our best forward" and "tough to play against" are insane IMHO. - Meanwhile, Byram, who turns 23 in June, has been averaging 20-22 minutes per game in the last 2 seasons for an elite NHL franchise. He's averaged 20 min per game in 27 playoff games. He's a great skater, he fights more than most of our D group and he can score a bit. - There is NFW that they trade Byram after 1 season. If he's good, they'll sign him to a long-term extension. - I understand the reflexive doubt for any move KA makes -- he's earned it with this atrocious season. But I think @pi2000 is right that this was a good and opportunistic move to sell MItts high and buy Byram low.

Because of the zillion games this season they came out clearly not ready to play an NHL game. That is an incontrovertible indicator of a team that is the opposite of focused, intense and determined. And that is partially on the roster but very much also on the coach. To be fair: I've read several articles about Lindy's firing that cite similar flaws with the Devils this season. 3rd bold: are you saying that Travis Green coached in Rochester? I think he coached in Utica, but not Rochester. 2nd bold: this is complete speculation and IMHO silly. Krueger was very much an alpha personality, as is Babcock, who they tried very hard to get. 1st bold: he'd want to come here because he wants to be an NHL head coach, and after getting fired 3 times and winning a total of 2 playoff series since 2007, he's pretty close to being out of options. The team has a lot of talent -- now maybe even in goal -- and Lindy knows that Buffalo can be a great place to play and coach. Also, he has 4 kids and wikipedia says his primary home is in Clarence. As for the money, I'd expect TP will pay more than he'd collect for not working. You want to right a wrong? You want Buffalo to love the Sabres again? Here is opportunity.

I'm certainly open to a different veteran coach with a successful track record, but I don't know which guy meeting that bill is available, willing to come here and better than Lindy. I am not OK with bringing back DG. Would you rather bring DG back, or make Lindy the HC?

It's quite a day indeed when I find myself enthusiastically endorsing a post generated by discount AI. But I would swap DG out for Lindy in a heartbeat. BTW: Lindy got the Devils to a franchise-record 112 pts last season and their first playoff advancement since 2012. Then he lost 2 of his top 4 D last summer and he lost his #1D (Dougie Hamilton) for the season on Dec. 1. His best player, Jack Hughes, has missed 16 out of 61 games with injury, they've only gotten 28 pts out of major acquisition Timo Meier, and they've gotten crappy goaltending all year. And they're 1 under DeLuca .500 with 21 games left. He can still bring it. In fact, I freaking guarantee that if the Sabres fire DG and bring him in, they will make the playoffs next year.

This right here is perfect. Interesting. I can see either possibility being true. I'm also not sure there was a guy out there in the $4MM to $6MM range who was willing to come here on a short-term deal and who would've made a difference.

This thread has turned into a microcosm of SabreSpace and I'm here for it baby. @dudacek with a scintillating, hope-restoring post. @Thorny with a series of passionate posts about not settling for being a bunch of losers, escalating to an alarming degree but ultimately not quite going off the cliff. @Hank with a fair and friendly but still kinda aggressive contribution. @Sabres Fan in NS with the kind-hearted generosity towards the team and the board. @Brawndo with the good info. @GASabresIUFAN with the good numbers. Even if the team lets us down again -- and I hope nobody here is really counting on them going 16-5 to close out the regular season and squeak in, although I know some are -- the board lives on gloriously.

Well, sure, but that seems extremely unlikely.