nfreeman

OK. Time to take it down a notch. FWIW, my recollection on this jibes with jame's -- but neither of you have bothered to post any links in support of your factual assertions here.

Philly hasn't been a disaster. They made the playoffs and advanced the season after the trade, and have made the playoffs 4 times in the 7 seasons since the trade. And the Kings terminated Richards' contract the first chance they got (and ended up having to settle with Richards for doing so) -- were they stupid for dumping talent to improve culture? As for Kane -- the Jets missed the playoffs for 3 seasons in a row before trading him, then made the playoffs immediately after trading him (then missed for 2 more seasons, then made the conf. finals). So maybe dumping him did improve their culture. And if your reference to "cratering their lineup" is meant to imply that trading ROR has cratered the Sabres' lineup -- I don't see how you can assert this when the Sabres are about a million times better than they were last year. Do you or do you not agree that the Sabres underachieved last year?

Regarding Skinner -- while Skinner waiving his NTC was certainly fortunate, JB still gets credit IMHO for making the deal happen and not giving up too much. Regarding ROR and trading talent to improve culture -- other teams have made the same decision (like Winnipeg with Kane and Philly with Carter and Richards). Sometimes it's necessary. Again, there is no way for us to know whether this was one of those cases. Clearly there were real issues -- I assume you agree that the team grievously underachieved last year? Regarding the cap space -- - Scandella's contract ($4MM) is reasonable. - Pommer's deal expires after this year and was part of the price to get Scandella and to get rid of Ennis' contract (which was more or less as bad as Pommer's). - Hunwick's contract expires after next year, is not a huge number at $2.25MM and was part of the price to acquire Sheary. - Sobotka is overpaid at $3MM but his deal expires after next year and he adds some value. - Beaulieu's deal expires after this year, isn't too big at $2.4MM and was a reasonable gamble to take on a guy with some upside, for a team that was desperate for upgrades at D.

IMHO, the question of whether JB has done a good job vs a poor job is entirely legit, as are the related questions of whether Mitts and/or TT should be in Rochester, whether Howie was a good hire, whether the ROR trade was a good trade, and others that have been raised in this discussion. After a thrilling but statistically unsustainable winning streak, the Sabres have more or less crash-landed and are reasonably likely to miss the playoffs. If they continue on the pace of the past 22 games or so, they'll miss the playoffs by a pretty good margin, and the questions above will be further legitimated. Now, that doesn't mean the conversation shouldn't be conducted in a friendly manner, or that dead horses should be excessively beaten -- but it's a conversation worth having.

Well, Bogo did kinda get caught watching on Foligno’s PPG tonight, but I agree that he’s had a great bounceback season.

I'm glad they won, but I feel like 2/3 and maybe 3/4 of the teams in the NHL would've beaten the Sabres tonight.

OK. It’s time to knock off the “you’re not as smart as I am” posts.

Also: TT doesn’t get many opportunities to just cruise into the slot unmolested and fire the weapon. When he does — look out.

Best game from Sheary and Mitts in a while. Getting that line to produce consistently would be a great development.

Now its' Zemgus-Eichel-Sobotka. Interesting.

Skinner-Larsson-Reino out for the close-out?

Nice little play by McCabe to get out of the D zone there.

Hutton needs to deliver the W, both for his own confidence and for the team's (in him and in themselves). I don't think the checking line is having a particularly good night.

Very strong shift from Reino.

2 very strong saves by Hutton.

I thought it was a pretty sweet feed! Toppings? Separately: until the last 7 min or so of the 2nd, I thought CBJ looked like they were mailing it in. The Sabres continue to play soft on D and to get mediocre goaltending from Hutton. The top line has looked quite good though. It's been a game between 2 lower-echelon teams.

I don't think we'll ever really know the locker room situation. It definitely seemed to me (and I think many others) that the whole was much less than the sum of the parts last year. In any case, I'm willing to defer to JB's (and presumably Howie's) judgment on this, and I think @Brawndo's point about 2 teams giving up on ROR is pretty compelling, although I can certainly understand your and @Drunkard's skepticism. As for the $7.5MM -- YMMV of course, but I'm not going to dismiss it as a consideration when it's someone else's money.

...for a team that was DFL! Scandy was pretty good last year -- there were plenty of games in which he was their best defenseman. That trade wasn't a franchise-changer, but it was a solid trade to pick up a quality defenseman for whom the Sabres only had to give up a solid 3rd/4th line winger in Foligno and take one extra year of a bad contract (Pommer's deal had 1 more year than Ennis' -- but the Sabres have gotten more from Pommer than Minny got from Ennis -- so kinda a wash there). Scandy's had a disappointing year this year. That doesn't mean it wasn't a good trade.

You're claiming that the thread title format on a message board does not impact the on-ice performance of a bunch of professional athletes, none of whom post here? How dare you.

Good thread. @jame -- welcome. Some of your posts are, as others have noted, a bit caustic, but hopefully that will improve over time, and so will Mittlestadt. In any case your posts are knowledgeable and reasonable. I don't think your (or anyone else's) posts about ROR can just ignore what seemed to be major locker room issues in the team last year. Obviously it wasn't purely an on-ice hockey trade. As I've stated previously, I am willing to give JB and Howie the benefit of the doubt on this as they were much closer to the situation than anyone here. I also don't agree with you on Reino's contract, or that JB blundered in not paying Vegas to take KO or Moulson in the expansion draft. I don't think you can make the assertion about Vegas without examining the cost that Vegas would've required -- and upon examination of the comparable deals, the cost would've been too high. I think @GASabresIUFAN has nicely summarized the positive moves JB has made -- and there have been many. However, your positions are mostly reasonable and well argued. I am increasingly convinced that both Mitts and TT should be in Rochester. There are going to be growing pains with a first-time GM, a first-time HC and a young team. On balance I am pretty optimistic about this management team and the state of the franchise.

Awesome stuff @Wyldnwoody44

Swamp -- I understand the feelings of betrayal, and I agree that the Sabres suffered a loss relative to what they were hoping to get in trade, but it's not like he misrepresented himself to JB in trying to get a big FA deal. He's also not asking for anyone's sympathy or money. And he apologized to the team and the fans and said the team did everything right. It sounds like the guy was already going through some depression, got blindsided by the trade and pretty much had a major breakdown that most likely had his loved ones very concerned he was close to jumping off a bridge, and they all decided it would be best for him to go home and have his homies around him 24/7 to make sure he keeps it together. You're a good man. Wish him a healthy recovery and be done.

Let me just say that I really hope @dudacekis at this game and that he had a good view of that very sweet goal by Reino.

@Taro T-- logically, you are 100% correct, but I expect that he likely wasn't capable of thinking logically at the time. I wonder how much his wife/agent/others close to him pushed for something like what you are suggesting. They may have been so worried about him that they just went along with his wishes.

It seems pretty clear that Bergy's issues went well beyond hockey -- that sounds to me like he was suffering from pretty severe depression. That wasn't the impression that I got from ROR, FWIW.