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I always thought 100 games too low a standard for “making it” in the NHL. 100 games is 1.25 seasons. That’s not much of a career. 240 seems like a better number.

So if you add up the record of when those guys are out (not knowing any overlap), its 6-16-2. If you add in Dahlin last year its 6-26-4 (or 6 wins and 30 losses if we consider OT losses what they are, losses). Well, guess what? Other teams lose their star players and still make the playoffs, other teams lose sometimes MULTIPLE important players and make the playoffs. Why? I'm guessing when other playoff teams lose important players, they aren't as good, but they for sure AREN'T 6 WINS and 30 LOSSES bad! The reason injuries doesn't work as an excuse is when you have them, you have to be good enough to do better than 6 wins and 30 losses. Maybe 15w, 21 losses. Maybe even 12 and 24. But not 6 and 30. That is in indictment on your roster construction.

It seems Zucker takes more of that role. IMHO Doan is in more of the Darcy Tucker role the Loafs used to use. Win puck battles for loose pucks low and go to the back door for tap ins.

Another thing I thought of as well, although going around Aho in a November game not the same as going around Borque in an elimination game.

I don't put too much into this, but this is the best I can find (keep in mind the numbers might actually under-estimate Doan because he gets so many more defensive zone starts than Peterka does.) Doan only gets about 45% offensive zone starts, and then the Sabres lose the faceoff (lose possession) almost 54% of the time. Peterka gets 68.2% offensive zone starts, and his team wins those offensive zone faceoffs 62% of the time. Doan has 63 defensive zone starts, JJP only has 28 defensive zone starts (all this even strength) So here goes: When Doan is on the ice: 127 scoring chances allowed. 54 high danger chances allowed. 15.9 expected goals allowed. When JJP is on the ice: 143 scoring chances allowed. 62 high danger chances allowed. 15.7 expected goals allowed. That expected goal number would likely be a LOT higher for Peterka and lower for Doan (allong with the rest of the numbers) if JJP wouldn't be sheilded so much from defensive zone starts. Their ice time per game is very close, and seeing how Doan is on the ice starting in the Defensive zone a lot more and the other team has possession of the puck off of faceoffs more, I'd say those numbers say Doan (and of course, his linemates) are performing positionally in the defensive zone better than JJP (and his linemates.) This might be the most critical stat favoring Doan over JJP: Despite the lopsided zone starts (offensive vs Defensive) where Doan starts in the defensive zone and JJP doesn't that much....total time on ice Doan has only 33.7% of his time in the defensive zone, while JJP has 40.9% of his time in the defensive zone. The goalies JJP is playing in front also have about a 1.5% better save percentage than what Doan has behind him. The fact that Doan starts in the defensive zone so much more, yet has less defensive zone ice time can only lead me to think he helps a LOT more with getting the puck out of the defensive zone (and keeping it out) than JJP does. When taken into context together, most of the fancy stat numbers through 22 games point to Doan being much better in defensive zone coverage and helping exit the puck from the defensive zone than JJP.

They are different players. So far Peterka and Doan's scoring production has been almost even, Peterka has 9 G and 16 points (+2), all at even strength. Doan has 7G, 15 points (-3), which includes 2 PPG and 4 PP points. In the Utah games that I saw JJP does not play PP1, and gets limited PP2 minutes. I have not seen any actual evidence that Doan is better in the defensive zone than Peterka is right now in Utah - I am sure someone can pull fancy stats comparing the two. I would like to see that. Doan's offensive game is to hound pucks and get to the net for the greasy goals, something the Sabre's really needed. My eyes tell me that Doan has a physical component to his game and hustles to get back on defense, something JJP did not consistently show. Peterka's offensive game is fast-break skating and a sniper shot, skills that several other Sabre players possess. The Sabres can use a guy like Doan. Factor in Kesselring and this is shaping up to be a good trade right now. In addition, we just saw that Rosen and Östlund are emerging and they are more similar in style to JJP than to Doan, so in the name of balanced roster construction Doan is a guy we need.

He plays the Rheinhart role for them on the PP...the in front of the net/screen the goalie guy.

Doan vs Petekra though about 1/4 of the season by the numbers even strength: -Actual goals for vs allowed percentage: Peterka 52.63 Doan 47.37 -Expected goals for vs allowed: Peterka 48.71 Doan 52.16 -82 game goal/points Petera: 34 goals, 60 points, +7, 15 hits 15:58 ice time per game. Offensive zone starts 68.2% 82 game pace/points Doan: 26 goals, 56 points, -11, 90 hits 15:37 ice time per game. Offensive zone starts 45.2% As for as helping the PP, Peterka not only has zero pp goals or points, he hasn't even been in the ice for a single PP goal for Utah this season. On the other hand, I think many of us think Doan has actually improved the Sabres PP by going to the net, scoring 2 goals on the PP, having 2 PP assists. He has been on the ice for 8 pp goals for the Sabres (ties for the team best among forwards), but he has done than in less time than Tage, statistically equating to him being the best forward on the team in helping them score PP goals. Of the guys with over 40 minutes of PP ice time so far: When Doan is on the ice, the team scores a PP goal once every 6.9 minutes. Tage is once every 9.4 minutes. Zucker every 7.8 minutes. Quinn every 11.2 minutes. Tuch every 10.5 minutes. On the PP this team has its 'sniper' in Tage. It has its puck handler in Dahlin. It might very well be, possibly long term, that Doan helps this PP more than Peterka ever could. He does something this team needs more than it needs what JJP does well on the PP.

But interestingly, and neither of the other 2 of the "big 3" have been out this season, but Dahlin is the only of the Big 3 who's absense that they seem unable to overcome. (Looking at last season's performance, regarding how the team handled the loss of the other 2.) And it's also interesting, though not surprising considering how little experience the team has as a whole and how young they are, that the one 30+ veteran skater on the roster is one of the guys they don't seem to be able to make up for his absence; nor can they make up for the absence of the kid who SHOULD be too small and too slow to make that huge of a difference, but who's motor and hockey sense tend to create chaos that they seem to be missing from the forward ranks. And those are the types of guys that Adams has been reluctant to focus on when obtaining players - the veteran that's been there before and can help calm the team down when things are going kerplewy and the guy that may not check every box physically but he simply makes good things happen when he's on the ice. And the play of both can be contagious. Bringing in Doan was a good move to help (stinks that it came at the expense of Peterka, but is what it is). They really need a few more of these types ideally as they really seem to miss them when they're gone.

I thought with Doan, we were getting a grinder who was a third or fourth line type of player. However, his offensive instincts and production have surprised me. If he was inserted on the first or second line now, I would not automatically say that he was miscast for those upper line roles, although I would still categorize him as a third-line type of player. I'm not going to say that he is better than JJP but what I can comfortably say that he is a more well-rounded player. What makes his value more noticeable is that he excels in areas in which this team was glaringly deficient, such as net presence, a physical style of play and more responsible play in the defensive zone. There has been a lot of discussion here about roster construction. From that standpoint alone, he was a good addition.

Couldn't watch the game but saw and heard the replay of Beck's goal. Dunleavy made the call and it sounded like Ray wanted to interject something but was choking on a hotdog in surprise. Anyone else catch that?

WTF. He can't be serious?!

It reminded me of the Brad May mayday goal. Instantly thought about it.

You could rank Juho Piiparinen 4th... I ***** wouldn't from the little I have read but, Craig Button does some really odd stuff for the draft.

Well he set up Malenstyn yesterday....

krebs can do line 3, but ya, he’s not an offensive output driver…….at least as of now.

I didn't play anything more than flooded backyard hockey and street hockey with the other neighborhood kids. I only knew of one guy who got anywhere in sports- made it into the NJ Devils farm system; never heard how far he got but it wasn't very far because he doesn't show up on any of the stats websites (granted, this would have been 40+ years ago, so prior to the stats websites themselves, but they do have some historical records).

Heck, Krebs was a first rounder, wasn't he? Solid 4th liner, not totally out of place up higher, as much as we criticize him. I'm sure he's someone that, at lower levels of play, looked like he had elite offensive skills. He's got speed and is willing to do whatever he's asked, but his offensive skills aren't quite top nine level.

/Skated pick up with multiple nhl and college players in 80's and 90's. Rule one was do nothing to hurt them. Rule two was beat anyone who did not follow rule one. The skill level and power was otherworldly. just amazing.

I helped coach a team Bill Hajt's son was on. Bill was better than anyone on the ice in his 40's.

I always looked at this phenomena like a pyramid. How many high school seniors are there in a given year? What percentage of those can play varsity basketball? What percentage of those can play college basketball at any level? What percentage of those can play pro basketball at any level? That large initial base of the population whittles down to the head of a pin at the top. To provide a first hand account, in college (DIII basketball) we went down the road to scrimmage Army (low-level DI) before our season started. It was eye-opening how different the talent and skill levels were, even within that relevant tier I mentioned above. Army had a kid who was also an all-American tight end on the football team. He was an absolute beast.

One thing lost in that breakdown is how much overlap there is between those three players being out. It’s not just one guy. Ok, the Dahlin impact is obvious. We all know what they lose there.

It’s funny, I had almost this exact conversation yesterday at the meet up. I think we’ve all had friends who played against so and so in grade school and think they were better, or at least equal to the guy that “made it.”

Not you specifically, I think it happens a lot in this whole forum - but getting a solid 4th line contributor in the 2nd round of the draft is not even guaranteed. AI tells me that the average 2nd round forward plays about 210 NHL games. Ol' Becky is at 202 right now. The fact that the pick ended up being Cole Hutson might be a bigger subject of lament down the line, but for now - it was at least marginal value. I found another website that averages 1969-2025: Pick #43 averages 228 GP, 34G and 60A. Sir Beck is clearly lagging in the score department.

I’m sure there’s a “Kesselring hasn’t played, so it’s a bust” article out there somewhere. Just give it some time.