humanot Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I know theres been alot of interest in the designs I put together back in 2003, and I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm humbled by everyones responses and feedback (even those that are negative, and especially those that are constructive). Also, I've done a bit more work on some new concepts, I know some of them have flown around here, as I've been tooling with the buffalo illustration. Well, I just relaunched my site with some new stuff. I'm still going to be adding a bunch of new designs and features to it .. such as forum sigs, avatars, and a few other things for showing support and rebelling against the slug. but for now .. i just had enough time to get this thing built, and get it out there. I'd love to get some feedback from you guys. The New Blue and Gold Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I posted this on the other thread where people were already suggesting changes to these new designs and I think it needs to be said. Please understand I am not trying to rip Slabyk's stuff, this is a general commentary on the whole logo controversy ... If this thread doesn't prove they will never keep everyone happy I do not know what does. "Good job ... BUT ..." I'm tellin ya, this is why they will never listen to the fans ... in their eyes we are all amateur designers who can't agree on what we like so they are going to tell us what we will like. I'm not saying I agree, I hate what they have come up with. But unless everyone really got behind ONE design, we'll never get anywhere. People talk about the Islanders fans getting rid of the fisherman but they rallied behind the old logo and stuck to it. No offense to Slabyk, he has done some cool stuff, but we have seen seven or eight different variations on this board alone in the last couple weeks and every time people just say "Yeah, that's OK, but it would be better if ..." If we rally behind the original we have a fighting chance to get it back after a year or two. If we are so worried about retaining tradition, then actually do it and retain the tradition. That's a case we can make. But "Keep a little tradition ... but update it" is way too vague and impossible for everyone to have the same vision about. You can call all these others "updated," but in the end they are just cheap imitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtconner Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Can you put a big huge notice up there on how you would gladly give these designs to the Sabres organization with no trouble (minimal cost) so as to make it as easy as possible for Tom G, and the Sabres crew to use these wonderful designs. I know you are in this for profit, but at least let us know you have good intentions at heart. .. but I will say those are the unis that I dreamt about and the ones that give me the chills when I think about our boys wearing them out on the ice, in front of the whole country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTS Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Your designs are what will make me cry when the Sabres release their mullet gear. Just knowing what could have been!!! BTP: I disagree with you, although we all might not agree with the complete package that John put together, we would gladly take anything he came up with over the slug logo. There is a big difference in fine tunning something and absolutely hating something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegas4BOC Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I'm tellin ya, this is why they will never listen to the fans ... in their eyes we are all amateur designers who can't agree on what we like so they are going to tell us what we will like. OK, so a lot of us are hack Paintshop Pro people trying to incorporate a concept many thought was going to be done by the Sabres marketing brass. However........ Mr. Slabyk is an Art director and freelance Graphic Designer. I wouldn't call that being an amateur. I recall reading that he had a top level meeting with the Sabres Front Office. He doesn't even live in the city of Buffalo. I'd say this pretty much distinguishes him as Professional, rather than Amateur. If any of his previous or newly designed concepts were to have been picked by the Sabres organization, I'm telling you there would have been no CONTROVERSY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 BTP: I disagree with you, although we all might not agree with the complete package that John put together, we would gladly take anything he came up with over the slug logo. As would I, my point was not that Slabyk's stuff was bad, it is good. But all the same people bitching about the Slug are suggesting changes to him too. From the Sabres point of view, no one can agree on what they like. Mr. Slabyk is an Art director and freelance Graphic Designer. I wouldn't call that being an amateur. I recall reading that he had a top level meeting with the Sabres Front Office. He doesn't even live in the city of Buffalo. I'd say this pretty much distinguishes him as Professional, rather than Amateur.If any of his previous or newly designed concepts were to have been picked by the Sabres organization, I'm telling you there would have been no CONTROVERSY!! Again, I agree ... he is a professional, but to the Sabres he is just another guy cooking up variations of a logo they already own. And I agree, there would have been no controversy, but there would have been no controversy if they used the original either. people would have just said "An update would have been nice but it's better than the Goathead!" and there would have been no petitions. So far, the only thing we can all agree on is that we'd ALL prefer some version of the orginal to anything they have had since. So just go back to it and be done with it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I think BTP00 understands that, and I'm sure he didn't mean to call Slybak an amateur, what he meant was that every design that a handful of us LOVE, another handful say "GREAT, but do this..." and yet more and more handful's of fans are saying that... and then there are a few who say "I like the 3 revision we saw but with a minor tweak..." by all this being said, the organization is saying "they won't be happy with anything so let's stick with this garbage that we already paid for." we need to rally behind ONE idea, and the only one all of us can agree on 100% is the original because it will be either the ugly slug or the original... otherwise we look indecisive. ps. I LOVE the new design Slybak did by the way, including the script B and sword... just don't like the predator type 3rd jersey idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtconner Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 I think BTP00 understands that, and I'm sure he didn't mean to call Slybak an amateur, what he meant was that every design that a handful of us LOVE, another handful say "GREAT, but do this..." and yet more and more handful's of fans are saying that... and then there are a few who say "I like the 3 revision we saw but with a minor tweak..." Ahh the trap of the vocal minority. How about the *MANY* fans like myself who saw his design... loved them, assumed the Sabres would release something similar, and never said a word to anybody or posted anywhere becuse there was no need to complain. Things just looked good and why do I need to comment on something that is already fine and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Ahh the trap of the vocal minority. How about the *MANY* fans like myself who saw his design... loved them, assumed the Sabres would release something similar, and never said a word to anybody or posted anywhere becuse there was no need to complain. Things just looked good and why do I need to comment on something that is already fine and good. So you thought that just because Slabyk came up with a design, no matter how good, and made a website his designs would automatically be chosen by the Sabres? Again, no offense, I like his designs, but as Crash Davis said, he's just as full of sh!t as anyone else, at least in the eyes of a professional hockey team. As am I. there are thousands of different opinions of what looks good. I am saying if we are going to throw our weight behind something, let's throw it behind something tangible that was obviously well-liked enough that fans have been clamoring for it for years. We thought we did that saying we wanted the "Blue and Gold" and look what we got. Obviously we need to be more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtconner Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 So you thought that just because Slabyk came up with a design, no matter how good, and made a website his designs would automatically be chosen by the Sabres?I did use the word similar Again, no offense, I like his designs, but as Crash Davis said, he's just as full of sh!t as anyone else, at least in the eyes of a professional hockey team. As am I. there are thousands of different opinions of what looks good. I am saying if we are going to throw our weight behind something, let's throw it behind something tangible that was obviously well-liked enough that fans have been clamoring for it for years. We thought we did that saying we wanted the "Blue and Gold" and look what we got. Obviously we need to be more specific. So we ARE on the same side, aren't we? We need solutions, not problems. In my eyes Slabyk's designs can be solutions if we get behind him. Right now we have no defense to the "people would complain about any design" theory... because there is no way to disprove it, UNLESS we all get behind a design that we actually like. In the same vein I could say "using the old logo would have solved world hunger" but no one can disprove it unless we actually use the old logo, and then see that world hunger still exists. .. . .. . either way, I'm not optimistic, it seems we are stuck with a slug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Then why have a thousand designs floating around out there? Seriously, let's put together a site, a poll, something, that offers maybe five logo choices to the fans - no changes, no tweaks, nothing - just pick your favorite out of the five. Although I would bet that there would be a clear-cut leader after a couple weeks, we could whittle it down to the final three and then eventually stand (somewhat) unified behind a single logo. As an added bonus, there would be no more "Hey, What Do You Think About This Logo?" threads popping up every other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Then why have a thousand designs floating around out there? Seriously, let's put together a site, a poll, something, that offers maybe five logo choices to the fans - no changes, no tweaks, nothing - just pick your favorite out of the five. Although I would bet that there would be a clear-cut leader after a couple weeks, we could whittle it down to the final three and then eventually stand (somewhat) unified behind a single logo. As an added bonus, there would be no more "Hey, What Do You Think About This Logo?" threads popping up every other day. because there are a 1000 ways to skin this cat and have people be satisfied. It's not that a particular logo needs to be chosen - only that one logo needs to be tossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtconner Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 because there are a 1000 ways to skin this cat and have people be satisfied. It's not that a particular logo needs to be chosen - only that one logoslug needs to be tossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humanot Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 "you can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time" ... thats just as true with sports fans as it is with politics, and this particular topic will always prove that. My belief however is not that all feedback be considered, or that all ideas are valued too highly (obviously there are alot of wrong directions, and just plain bad ideas out there), but I truly believe that the current model followed for branding a sports team the way the Sabres did is completely wrong. For those of you who haven't had the oppurtunity to be involved in the design / branding industry ... heres some important facts. There are Sports Marketing groups and there are Sports Branding groups ... the latter being superior to the previous (in my opinion), in most cases any way. However, the more business-minded folks believe otherwise. Their belief is that a Sports Marketing group contains the ability to present justifiable facts that lend to their decisions in branding (focus group results, charts and graphs identifying sales patterns, etc), whereas the Sports Branding groups' choices are based much more on conjecture, taste and belief. Both of these thoughts are completely wrong though ... while a Sports Marketing group may be able to show the end result of merchandise sales in specific markets on a short term basis, their results are inadvertently based on trends and personal tastes (the down side of placing too much value in focus group results). While, Sports Branding groups base their work on research and a process towards finding the best sustainable idea that can carry out on many platforms and campaigns (and while trends are of course part of that equation, its knowingly done, rather than inadvertently). To view the difference between these two company types ... check here ... Verlander Design is a phenomonal Sports Branding group that consistently puts out brilliant work, while JPatton is a Sports Marketing group that is responsible for the Slug ... they hold no portfolio for work or previous examples (however if you view the logos section, there is a background image there that when I first saw it, seemed as though it could have been a very interesting sampling of something for the Sabres). The point that I'm getting at is this ... the end client in sports branding is the fan. Not a focus group which swipes the prospective sales market, not the executives and managers of the team, not the league itself ... but the fans ... 'lifers', 'bandwagoners', as well as the 'nonfan' who wants just the latest cool thing. Taking the masses feedback into account is needed, and including them in the process is important. It should not be a secretive process with an unveiling, but more of an open door policy where feedback can be thrown in, ideas tossed out, all at the discretion of an Art Director or Creative Director who can truly understand the brand. The fact that not one ounce of this belief was included in the branding process of the Sabres, proves its importance ... because now we are faced with a ridiculous result that won't help the team in any way (except financially ... because in this business, even a failed experiment still proves profitable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 i like those dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 because there are a 1000 ways to skin this cat and have people be satisfied. It's not that a particular logo needs to be chosen - only that one logo needs to be tossed. I agree that losing the slug needs to happen, but what good is it if they drop the slug and introduce something just as hideous? By selecting one or two schemes/logos that we all can live with, we send a unified message that a) the slug sucks, and we won't accept it and b) that we can agree on one logo. Like TMP said (below) there are too many times that ppl are saying "oh, I like that design, how about you change the font?" or "why not bring the sabres up closer," or "turn the Buffalo the other way" or "the swords look like butterknives." I think we could find one or two of Slabyk's original designs that we love AS IS, and that would give the franchise a clear indication of what we, the fans,a re looking for (or alternately, what we are not looking for - i.e., the slug.) Another point is that in the past, teams' names in all areas of sport have been chosen by fan polls, write-in elections, etc., so why not the "new" logo? This way you can keep the fans involved, and incorporate the teams' designs as well. Its probably too late to do this, but you have a preliminary vote - invite submissions from local firms, etc., to submit their work, then fans vote on the top three of those. Put the three winners into a second vote with three taht the team commissions, then let the fans decide. apus - sorry I had to comment in this thread - I didn't know John would be posting new designs and whipping us into a frenzy again. I guess you get to bitch about Darth Regier at least once today... ;) I think BTP00 understands that, and I'm sure he didn't mean to call Slybak an amateur, what he meant was that every design that a handful of us LOVE, another handful say "GREAT, but do this..." and yet more and more handful's of fans are saying that... and then there are a few who say "I like the 3 revision we saw but with a minor tweak..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Can you do a Third Jersey that incorporates the old Bison Pepsi Cap logo? That would be awesome :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 I agree that losing the slug needs to happen, but what good is it if they drop the slug and introduce something just as hideous? Because it stands to reason that if they drop the Sluggalo, then they would have received the "message" loud and clear. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 I think you're giving them too much credit ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humanot Posted July 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 thanks everyone for the kind words and the feedback ... I really appreciate it ... Can you do a Third Jersey that incorporates the old Bison Pepsi Cap logo? That would be awesome :D I didn't that would be practical (as the team could never use it), or appropriate for the team, as even though I wanted the third jersey to be about looking back, I wanted it to be about that in theory and concept, not in literals ... I did however put together a concept that I just opted to include, using the full script from the Buffalo Bisons bottlecap but with a sabres usage ... let me know what you guys think: check it out here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabregoats Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 those are all incredible, I would love to see the sabres wearing those in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aud One Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 John, Those are bang-on awesome! Two things I really like, are the "sharpness" of the Sabres, and the Botte-Cap logo tribute uniform. I'd buy them all. Great job sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanderingEye Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 I like the home and away designs, but not a big fan of the solid gold third jersey. Basically the same as the old school unis, but with bolder colors and a more "bad-assified" buffalo, thus satisfying the usual statement from fans that they were seeking a look similar to the old one but "modernized." Everybody hates the slug, but what really scares me is the thought that the "gold" that adorns the slug, which looks really orange to me, will also be the "gold" present on the jerseys. That, in addition to envisioning the number of angles, stripes, and squiggles that will be present, doesn't make me that optimistic that the jerseys will turn out OK while the logo will suck (as has been the argument of some). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsAlum Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 John, Your unis are exactly what I had hoped we would return to. If the Sabres have any sense, they'd work out a deal with you for your designs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 I LOVE the "Buffalo Hockey Club" script jersey... another great addition to an already solid design... great job too bad we probably won't ever see them materialize :( :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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