Team Defence and coaching

[steveoath]

I think most agree that both need drastic overhaul. I am not as well versed in the structures in ice so been doing a bit of “studying”. 
 

Came across this video. Makes for rather depressing watching. But highlights some of the things we can see in game. If outsiders can read this from the sabres, why can’t the coaching team!??

Sabres are a disaster video

 

 

[Night Train]

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 8/17/2025 at 4:12 PM, steveoath said:

I think most agree that both need drastic overhaul. I am not as well versed in the structures in ice so been doing a bit of “studying”. 
 

Came across this video. Makes for rather depressing watching. But highlights some of the things we can see in game. If outsiders can read this from the sabres, why can’t the coaching team!??

Sabres are a disaster video

 

 

What you don’t think Kesselring and Timmins will solve all our D problem?  What type of fan are u?

Edited 1 hour ago by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

On 8/17/2025 at 5:18 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

What you don’t thing Kesselring and Timmins will solve all our D problem?  What type of fan are u?

I think they very well could. 

I also think people underrate what we needed on O even before we traded Peterka, though. But we’ve debated this before and I know I’m generally on an island on this one thinking we needed help at F even before that move 

- - - 

At the end of the day I think the simplest view here is also the one that incorporates the most data which is standings points. I do believe in the old “you are what your record says” cliche and the sabres were and are a 79 point team. Did you see addition this summer akin to launching a 79 point team into the mid 90s as usually required for playoffs? 

We can break down the variables every which way but the fact of the matter is the roster is deficient to the tune of being a 79 point (bad) team. If your equation doesn’t account for a HUGE influx of needed improvement, whether from external sources or within, it’s going to fall short.

Shoveling it onto UPL’s plate doesn’t work for me either, in estimation 

Adams’ tactics and mode of operation  haven’t changed even if he’s switching up slightly on the “type” of roster he’s building - when we have literally AVERAGED 78 points a year, too, for half a decade, I don’t see why the smart bet could be on anything else than that when we’ve only seen that same modus operandi continued 

I could easily finally be wrong but the roster still looks to me like mostly a shell game shuffle, as it’s seemed to be for a few years. As always in a position of “it could work”, but reeking of winning in the now not being the central priority.

Edited 3 hours ago by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

On 8/17/2025 at 4:12 PM, steveoath said:

Came across this video. Makes for rather depressing watching. But highlights some of the things we can see in game. If outsiders can read this from the sabres, why can’t the coaching team!??

Sabres are a disaster video

 

Embedding this. It isn't knew info but it is condensed into 1 video versus 100 threads.

Edited 3 hours ago by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think they very well could. 

I also think people underrate what we needed on O even before we traded Peterka, though. But we’ve debated this before and I know I’m generally on an island on this one thinking we needed help at F even before that move 

- - - 

At the end of the day I think the simplest view here is also the one that incorporates the most data which is standings points. I do believe in the old “you are what your record says” cliche and the sabres were and are a 79 point team. Did you see addition this summer akin to launching a 79 point team into the mid 90s as usually required for playoffs? 

We can break down the variables every which way but the fact of the matter is the roster is deficient to the tune of being a 79 point (bad) team. If your equation doesn’t account for a HUGE influx of needed improvement, whether from external sources or within, it’s going to fall short.

Shoveling it onto UPL’s plate doesn’t work for me either, in estimation 

Adams’ tactics and mode of operation  haven’t changed even if he’s switching up slightly on the “type” of roster he’s building - when we have literally AVERAGED 78 points a year, too, for half a decade, I don’t see why the smart bet could be on anything else than that when we’ve only seen that same modus operandi continued 

I could easily finally be wrong but the roster still looks to me like mostly a shell game shuffle, as it’s seemed to be for a few years. As always in a position of “it could work”, but reeking of winning in the now not being the central priority.

Finding ways it could work is kinda what I do around here and I hope I never get to the point where that stops.

I don't agree with all the nuance above, but I absolutely agree with the overarching theme.

I wrote something a few days ago trying to capture my pragmatic view of the off-season. I was going to use it as a thread-starter, but I might as well post it here because it fits..

[dudacek]

When you’ve failed as regularly and consistently as the Buffalo Sabres have you don’t get the benefit of the doubt.

Especially when your signature off-season move is trading the remaining bright jewel in a fading collection of young forwards for a couple of unproven and unheralded young support pieces.

There’s a general consensus among hockey-watchers that general manager Kevyn Adams is in over his head and a growing concern that the game has passed venerable coach Lindy Ruff by.

This was the often disorganized team that allowed more goals than all but three NHL franchises last year and attacked that problem by bringing back a struggling starter who lost his net down the stretch, along with its entire failed coaching staff.

This was the immature and fragile bunch who responded to a perceived lack of veteran savvy by adding 4 skaters who average 140 career NHL games among them.

Last season crashed on the rocks of a 13-game December losing streak where Ruff openly acknowledged his players where not who he had thought they were, Adams failed to react with any significant action, and goaltender Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen broke under the strain.

The rest of the year basically served as an audition where Ruff attempted to sort through what worked and what didn’t and Adams began the process of re-setting, specifically jettisoning perceived building block forwards Dylan Cozens and JJ Peterka from a group that had shown so much promise just two years before.

The Sabres aren’t without talent, and that starts on the blue line, where Rasmus Dahlin, Owen Power, Bowen Byram, Michael Kesselring, Mattias Samuelsson and Conor Timmins are as toolsy as any NHL starting six in terms of size, skill and skating ability. But other than Dahlin — who has  truly become a world-class blue liner — it’s an unproven collection of talent that has largely failed to realize its potential on an individual level. Perhaps Kesselring, the key piece in the Peterka return, can be the missing piece to unlock the group’s potential?

Scoring goals hasn’t been a problem for this iteration of the team, but there is the question of whether that will remain true with the departure of Peterka, an offensive finisher and driver who was not replaced. With Thompson’s move to wing likely permanent, how will they fill the hole at centre? Certainly Thompson is an elite goal scorer and Alex Tuch a legit all-round power forward, but will Ryan McLeod and Jason Zucker repeat their excellent seasons? Can the talented Josh Norris stay healthy enough to be an upgrade over Cozens? Will any of the gifted but callow group of Zach Benson, Jiri Kulich, Jack Quinn and newcomer Josh Doan take a step? Is there enough ‘hard-to-play-against’ in the depth collection of Beck Malenstyn, Peyton Krebs, Jordan Greenway, Tyson Kozak and 30-something addition Justin Danforth?

Luukkonen was excellent in the back half of 2023/24 to earn the starter’s net and the contract to go with it, but faltered badly down the stretch this season after being unable to stop the bleeding in December. Newcomer Alex Lyon is a battler and a viable stopgap, but he’s not the answer. Devon Levi might be eventually, but he wasn’t last year and seems almost certain to start the season in Rochester. Uncertainty in net has been an Adams trademark since he let Linus Ullmark walk in his rookie season.

Statistically the Sabres got some of the league’s worst goaltending last year, but it’s hard to fully blame the goalies when their environment was so awful most of the time. So much of goaltending depends on the skaters – forwards and defensemen — making good decisions with the puck and adhering to the structure of the system and the Sabres were among the league’s worst last year in terms of allowing high-danger chances.  

Can the roster tweaks combine with a year of coaches and players adjusting to each other yield significant defensive improvement? Is the collection of talent in the crease enough to take advantage if they do? The Sabres are apparently counting on it. 

Sure, it does seem like the Sabres have made some incremental improvements in areas where they needed it: roster construction, grit, defence. But incremental is incremental, and incremental is not what is called for when you need to make up a 12-point playoff gap, especially in the wake of two years of decline on top of 12 years of relentless, pulverizing losing.

What it all adds up to is that — in a market bereft of it — the Sabres seem to once again be pinning their improvement largely on hope.

And in the words of their most veteran skater, Zucker, hope is a ***** strategy.

Edited 2 hours ago by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

The Sabres are most likely missing the playoffs for a 15th straight year and we will see a gutting of coaches and front office personnel again. This is an 85pt with this coaching group, a group that has failed repeatedly. Lindy Ruff doesn't change anything and in fact his team was worse last year than Granato in part because Ruff spent 3 months dithering and being like "oh I thought these guys were different than what they are". Adams is incompetent by any measure and at this point who cares if they make the playoffs by some miracle? That doesn't change 5 years of abject failure by Kevyn. He is slow to adapt, gets hyper focused on 1 problem at a time, and cannot stand getting rid of ppl he likes on a personal level. 

In the end, it's nice they want to improve the defensive ability of the team but they didn't improve the coaching, they didn't improve the goaltending. We are going to win a few more games but the chance of the least experienced team in hockey putting it all together are slim to none and this team actually is less experienced than it was last year. Basically I guess we should just wait 3 years for them to mature because Pegula ain't going to change. He's convinced his farts smell like roses and champagne. 

[DarthEbriate]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This was the immature and fragile bunch who responded to a perceived lack of veteran savvy by adding 4 skaters who average 140 career NHL games among them.

This is an interesting facet of this offseason's transactions:

Out: 622 career GP
JJP - 238
Clifton - 384  (career 6/7 D)

In: 675 career GP
Danforth - 183
Doan - 62
Jones - 115
Kesselring - 156
Timmins - 159

Did they get older and more experienced? Not really. Definitely not if Danforth is a scratch. They could be better, but it's another kick of the can into the future because you can't be certain what you're going to get.

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Finding ways it could work is kinda what I do around here and I hope I never get to the point where that stops.

I don't agree with all the nuance above, but I absolutely agree with the overarching theme.

I wrote something a few days ago trying to capture my pragmatic view of the off-season. I was going to use it as a thread-starter, but I might as well post it here because it fits..

I’ve said it before that if the team was “finding ways for it work” in the way you consistently outline, not in similar fashion but literally just employing the mindset and tactics that would lead to the same conclusions your draw, it would necessarily be far more likely to yield a playoff team than whatever malarkey they’ve been engaging in

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

This is an interesting facet of this offseason's transactions:

Out: 622 career GP
JJP - 238
Clifton - 384  (career 6/7 D)

In: 675 career GP
Danforth - 183
Doan - 62
Jones - 115
Kesselring - 156
Timmins - 159

Did they get older and more experienced? Not really. Definitely not if Danforth is a scratch. They could be better, but it's another kick of the can into the future because you can't be certain what you're going to get.

The Buffalo Sabres have 5,996 games of NHL experience based on their current roster on EP. https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/53/buffalo-sabres/experience/2025-2026/all?league=nhl

Montreal is next closest with 6,582 games and then Chicago at 6,945. Edmonton has 10,991 and Florida 12,384 for comparison. 

The Sabres are not only dead last but outside of Montreal, the next team is 1,000 more games of NHL experience. This team does not have enough experience and Adams has failed in almost every trade or signing where he has tried to add experience because he is a bad gm, with a bad sales pitch. 

The Sabres will only have 2 players with more than 500 games played, 5 players with more than 400 games played, 12 players with at least 200 games played when they start the next season. That means that almost half the roster will have played less than 3 full NHL seasons when we start the year but somehow we will magically make the playoffs with bad coaching and the what? Shonen Anime trope of willpower and friendship? 

Edited 2 hours ago by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The Buffalo Sabres have 5,996 games of NHL experience based on their current roster on EP. https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/53/buffalo-sabres/experience/2025-2026/all?league=nhl

Montreal is next closest with 6,582 games and then Chicago at 6,945. Edmonton has 10,991 and Florida 12,384 for comparison. 

The Sabres are not only dead last but outside of Montreal, the next team is 1,000 more games of NHL experience. This team does not have enough experience and Adams has failed in almost every trade or signing where he has tried to add experience because he is a bad gm, with a bad sales pitch. 

The Sabres will only have 2 players with more than 500 games played, 5 players with more than 400 games played, 12 players with at least 200 games played when they start the next season. That means that almost half the roster will have played less than 3 full NHL seasons when we start the year but somehow we will magically make the playoffs with bad coaching and the what? Shonen Anime trope of willpower and friendship? 

The bolded, counterintuitively, is one small reason to have hope that this season going kerplewy again (and as it stands, that's the most likely outcome with the current coaching and roster) it won't see Dahlin, Tuch, and Thompson all clamor to leave.  Fixing the coaching, and had read here earlier that ALL of the coaches contracts are up after this season, while keeping this roster mostly intact with all having an additional 50-80 games under their belts could see this team have the necessary huge jump in the standings NEXT year especially if the goaltending finally gets solid (either via growth or additional move).  With all the coaches getting changed out, it's POSSIBLE (not likely, but possible) that Adams might have a change in title as well and have a lesser role than the final decision maker on the 50 or so contracts.  Not even remotely sold on Kekalainen (personally expect the majority of his success was due to having a true star directly under him in Zito), but trust him and Karmanos more than Adams.  Bring in a couple of leadership vets who've been through long playoff runs consistently to go with the added experience and a coach that can actually get better play out of his players and that team could be poised to make the 20 point leap to 103 from 83.

The canary in the coalmine for that is does Tuch sign an extension.  If he does, though this season could be extremely frustrating, it won't necessarily lead to yet another rebuild.  If he doesn't, expect all of the "big 3" to want out, and we get reduced to hoping that the supporting pieces have matured enough and whatever the Sabres get back for Dahlin and Thompson and Tuch's cap space round it out, and they pull a Columbus next year with an improved coaching staff.

And, am still hoping for at least 1 more move at F, and ideally 2 but realistically that isn't realistic, to give a bit more depth and one of the 3 goalies (most likely UPL or Levi) finds a top 10 or so game, to make everything said above moot.  This team COULD make the playoffs, if a whole lot of stuff breaks their way.  But with this coaching staff wouldn't put any money at all on it happening.

But what a truly frustrating off-season this has been that the expected improvement based on the moves made will result in 4-6 points better than last year; when they really needed to be trying for a 20 point improvement.