Good news! Sabres not the youngest NHL team but...

[inkman]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I wasn't suggesting the return wouldn't be immediately helpful. However, I still disagree. I just believe that these two players have a lot of upsides that would turn into production. Especially for Quinn, I see him producing next season. And with Kulich, I see a lot of potential that will be realized soon. 

And this is why the Sabres are stuck where they are.  Adams has been too worried about prospects blooming elsewhere.  Who cares.  They need to win now.  Trade younger promising players for good established players. 

[JP51]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I read somewhere on twitter that this D of Dahlin Byram Power Kesselring Samuelsson Timmons is the youngest D in the league. Don't know if that's true or not. 

I think if Zucker, Greenway and Norris all go on IR at some point the roster would be one of the youngest if not the youngest again. We definitely still lack veteran experience and leadership. Their plan is stupid. 

Oh I think you can bet on Greenway, Norris and Muel all on IR at somepoint this season... for sure. 

[LGR4GM]

33 minutes ago, inkman said:

And this is why the Sabres are stuck where they are.  Adams has been too worried about prospects blooming elsewhere.  Who cares.  They need to win now.  Trade younger promising players for good established players. 

You have to find teams that want to do that. Right now that leaves you Pittsburgh and maybe Calgary. 

[oddoublee]

Trading is one option, but GM'S cannot be so risk averse when it comes to signing 30+ year old Dmen. Something Adams could have done over the last 3 offseasons

[dudacek]

200 games to find your way in the NHL, 400 to be a “veteran”.

Zucker 770

Tuch 536

Dahlin 509

Thompson 448

Greenway 435

McLeod 298

Krebs 296

Bryson 254

Byram 246

Power 242

Norris 239

Samuelsson 212

 

Less than 200

Quinn, Doan, Benson, Kulich, Danforth, Kesselring, Malenstyn, Timmins

So literally every add this summer is inexperienced. 

Edited 12 hours ago by dudacek

[JohnC]

55 minutes ago, inkman said:

And this is why the Sabres are stuck where they are.  Adams has been too worried about prospects blooming elsewhere.  Who cares.  They need to win now.  Trade younger promising players for good established players. 

 Not open to trading Quinn, Kulich or Power. These three players are ironclad do not move players for me. That is not to say that I won’t consider other high end prospects and draft picks as currency to get more immediate help. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You have to find teams that want to do that. Right now that leaves you Pittsburgh and maybe Calgary. 

Right now, but earlier there were more. You need to be more proactive and anticipate teams that want cap relief. Dallas and Vegas were both options for sure among others. You get on the phone to those teams BEFORE free agency starts. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

 Not open to trading Quinn, Kulich or Power. These three players are ironclad do not move players for me. That is not to say that I won’t consider other high end prospects and draft picks as currency to get more immediate help. 

Why Quinn?

NOBODY on a losing roster is no move for me. 

[JohnC]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

Why Quinn?

NOBODY on a losing roster is no move for me. 

If you trade Quinn he will be a 30 goal scorer for the receiving team. He is a “Hell No” player for me, and so is Power. 
 

If NOBODY on a losing roster is immune from being traded, does that mean Dahlin is also a candidate to be traded? Please don’t go  crazy on me due to pent up frustrations. 🙃

[Weave]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

If you trade Quinn he will be a 30 goal scorer for the receiving team. He is a “Hell No” player for me, and so is Power. 
 

If NOBODY on a losing roster is immune from being traded, does that mean Dahlin is also a candidate to be traded? Please don’t go  crazy on me due to pent up frustrations. 🙃

Was Peterka a hell no player for you?

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Right now, but earlier there were more. You need to be more proactive and anticipate teams that want cap relief. Dallas and Vegas were both options for sure among others. You get on the phone to those teams BEFORE free agency starts. 

Not really with the cap going up this year. Dallas traded 1 guy I would have had interest in. Vegas... no one. 

[inkman]

37 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you trade Quinn he will be a 30 goal scorer for the receiving team. He is a “Hell No” player for me, and so is Power. 
 

If NOBODY on a losing roster is immune from being traded, does that mean Dahlin is also a candidate to be traded? Please don’t go  crazy on me due to pent up frustrations. 🙃

The point is to trade Quinn for an established current 30 goal scorer.  The point of trading Power is to get a player like Brady Tkachuk.  You use these players to catapult the franchise to the next echelon.  Trade in maybes for definitelys.  Pardon my poor grammar. 

[JohnC]

57 minutes ago, inkman said:

The point is to trade Quinn for an established current 30 goal scorer.  The point of trading Power is to get a player like Brady Tkachuk.  You use these players to catapult the franchise to the next echelon.  Trade in maybes for definitelys.  Pardon my poor grammar. 

I understand your position but with respect to the young players named I still strongly say no. And,  it is sad to say that even if our young players were dealt the return would not be adequate because good players have little desire to come to this shunned franchise. This is a sad and pathetic situation to be in.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Was Peterka a hell no player for you?

The Peterka situation was completely different from the players mentioned. JJP made it clear to the organization that he wanted to get the freak out of this ghetto franchise. He was not going to sign a new contract and was going to allow his contract to run  for another year so he could be an UFA. The GM publicly stated that he wanted to keep him. The player essentially said F no! Once traded he quickly signed a new contract with Utah. In my view, the GM handled the situation reasonably well. 

 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

The Peterka situation was completely different from the players mentioned. JJP made it clear to the organization that he wanted to get the freak out of this ghetto franchise. He was not going to sign a new contract and was going to allow his contract to run  for another year so he could be an UFA. The GM publicly stated that he wanted to keep him. The player essentially said F no! Once traded he quickly signed a new contract with Utah. In my view, the GM handled the situation reasonably well. 

 

Still waiting for somebody to show me where the futility of the Sabres was the reason for Peterka’s departure.

I’ve heard he didn’t like the city. He acted like he didn’t like the coach(es)

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Peterka situation was completely different from the players mentioned. JJP made it clear to the organization that he wanted to get the freak out of this ghetto franchise. He was not going to sign a new contract and was going to allow his contract to run  for another year so he could be an UFA. The GM publicly stated that he wanted to keep him. The player essentially said F no! Once traded he quickly signed a new contract with Utah. In my view, the GM handled the situation reasonably well. 

 

 Before Peterka’s wishes became public knowledge was he on your hell no list?

Don’t say no to a trade until you see what’s coming back.

[JohnC]

39 minutes ago, Weave said:

 Before Peterka’s wishes became public knowledge was he on your hell no list?

Don’t say no to a trade until you see what’s coming back.

Absolutely yes he was on my no trade list. No secret about that. But go back to my post saying why that it didn’t play out the way I and even the GM wanted it to.

[JohnC]

56 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Still waiting for somebody to show me where the futility of the Sabres was the reason for Peterka’s departure.

I’ve heard he didn’t like the city. He acted like he didn’t like the coach(es)

I’m sure it was a combination of reasons. None of us are insiders so we don’t know what the full story is/was. What is obvious is that he was determined to leave and play for someone else. He wasn’t willing to sign here but once traded quickly came to terms on a new contract with Utah.

[Weave]

29 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Absolutely yes he was on my no trade list. No secret about that. But go back to my post saying why that it didn’t play out the way I and even the GM wanted it to.

So, if the team we have can’t win, and you refuse to even consider moving the young players we aren’t winning with to obtain good older players that know how to win, how do you expect this team to start winning?

Power off limits

Benson off limits

Quinn off limits

Kulich off limits?

Is Helenius off limits too?

That pretty much leaves us no quality ammunition to trade for good experienced players.  You are dooming us to repeat what already didn’t work.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

So, if the team we have can’t win, and you refuse to even consider moving the young players we aren’t winning with to obtain good older players that know how to win, how do you expect this team to start winning?

Power off limits

Benson off limits

Quinn off limits

Kulich off limits?

Is Helenius off limits too?

That pretty much leaves us no quality ammunition to trade for good experienced players.  You are dooming us to repeat what already didn’t work.

Helenius is not off- limits for me. 
 

I’m not dooming anything. If one believes that the young players you listed will be better players next season and thereafter (as I do), why would I want to see them dealt?

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Helenius is not off- limits for me. 
 

I’m not dooming anything. If one believes that the young players you listed will be better players next season and thereafter (as I do), why would I want to see them dealt?

Hope is not a plan.

[JohnC]

Just now, Weave said:

Hope is not a plan.

It’s not about hope. It’s simply that we have different judgments on players. 

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It’s not about hope. It’s simply that we have different judgments on players. 

You are relying on hope that they get to the performance level needed to get in the playoffs.  Where there is no evidence or data, there is only hope.

[Thorny]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

It would be a mistake to deal Kulich and/or Quinn for veteran players. If that should happen this would be another repeat tormenting scene where the players that were in our system and developed here ended up thriving wearing someone's jersey. The two players that you listed are players that we are counting on to make enough improvement where they will be positive contributors to this team. It seems to me that they have shown enough potential where we should stick with them. At least for these two players I would stay the course. 

I’ve enjoyed watching you slowly morph back into Kevyn Adams this summer 

9 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

You can’t add good players without trading good players. If there is a flaw in my idea, it’s that Quinn and Samuelsson are not likely viewed as being good players by the rest of the league. 

We’ve gone back to 2022

Need to have patience with the Adams plan 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, JohnC said:

 Not open to trading Quinn, Kulich or Power. These three players are ironclad do not move players for me. That is not to say that I won’t consider other high end prospects and draft picks as currency to get more immediate help. 

Calling Kulich and Quinn “untouchables” is high comedy - that’s not hyperbole. You cannot actually be serious. Not “only for the right return” you are calling them off limits. Absurd. You sound like rangers fans re: Eichel 

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Why Quinn?

NOBODY on a losing roster is no move for me. 

There’s a certain comfort in retreating back to having zero expectation and “collecting” your team ala EA sports nhl 

don’t really need to win if you can just be happy talking about your little collection of players online - in language you feel comes off balanced and reasonable but actually, demonstrably only exists in that form as a means to an end in and of itself: the laying out of the players you are mentally collecting in verbiage you find satisfying. Its objective horse ***** 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thorny