Trade Conor Timmins and Isaac Belliveau from the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for Connor Clifton and the 39th overall pick in the 2025 NHL Draft.

[Turbo44]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I got nothing

Is that you, Kevin?

[Turbo44]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

"Kevyn Adams needs to trade picks and get bigger and tougher!" Sabres fans

"What!? He traded a 2nd round pick! Why!?!?" Also Sabres fans

Didn't think you would be an Adams apologetic? I try to be rationale as I'm reserving judgment until i see what he does next week, but in his 5 years he's been pretty disasterous. I cautiously like what he's done so far this year but if the roster stays as it is, this is another 70-80 point team and he'll be fired. Minimum, if he trades Byram, he needs a top 6 forward. He would also have a huge hole at D2 (sammy aint it) and Goalie (not sure where his love of UPL comes from).

[DarthEbriate]

Some additional Timmins numbers:

Benefitted from his end-of-season time with Karlsson on the Pens. Like Buffalo, Pittsburgh finished strong when the stakes were low and their season was over.

1-6-7 and +9 in those 17 games. And he did it with 53% D-zone starts. That's really good.

What could be a bit alarming? 1 takeaway, 15 credited giveaways in those 17 games.

 

What physicality does he bring? Career-wise: 137 hits in 159 NHL games (.86 hits per game; which is basically the same as JBD ; but about .2 fewer hits per game than Jokiharju.)

[Mr. Allen]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

"Kevyn Adams needs to trade picks and get bigger and tougher!" Sabres fans

"What!? He traded a 2nd round pick! Why!?!?" Also Sabres fans

Are you suggesting Tillman is bigger and tougher and worth an early 2nd?

Did you probably like the Malenstyn trade too at the time? 

[mjd1001]

Ok, next to the Sabres I probably follow the Leafs the most of any time.  Listen to a LOT Of 590 out of Toronto (seeing how I can't stand WGR and Mike Schopp and live in Northern Niagara county so I get the Canadian stations in pretty clearly.)  So I'm trying to think of what I remember about Timmins game...

Now the stats might prove my impression totally wrong, but what I THINK I remember about him is he was a decent skater but not fast at all, and he doesn't like to carry the puck.  He would be a guy on a breakout that once he got the puck, he never took more than a stride or two with it, he would almost immediately pass it to someone else.  Was not a 'full motor' guy, but more of a guy that paced himself, conserved energy on the ice and maybe took a slightly longer shift because of it.

Of course, he was not one of the main guys in Toronto, so my memory and attention to him wasn't all that great.

All this talk and effort acquiring a RHD...I personally never thought Jokiharju was all that bad and I'm not sure how much better these guys are than he was.

Edited 6 hours ago by mjd1001

[Mr. Allen]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He played 2nd pairing minutes last year... so

On a terrible Penguins team.  There’s lots of instances of players playing more minutes than they should.  Just look at our D at times. 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Some additional Timmins numbers:

Benefitted from his end-of-season time with Karlsson on the Pens. Like Buffalo, Pittsburgh finished strong when the stakes were low and their season was over.

1-6-7 and +9 in those 17 games. And he did it with 53% D-zone starts. That's really good.

What could be a bit alarming? 1 takeaway, 15 credited giveaways in those 17 games.

 

What physicality does he bring? Career-wise: 137 hits in 159 NHL games (.86 hits per game; which is basically the same as JBD ; but about .2 fewer hits per game than Jokiharju.)

Went out of your way to find something bad? Lol he is an upgrade.  Move on

[GoPuckYourself]

Almost everything I read said Timmons is basically Clifton without the physicality. This seems like another cost cutting move. We have 1 of the worst rosters in the NHL lead by the blind and now we’re pinching pennies besides.

Edited 6 hours ago by GoPuckYourself

[Archie Lee]

Here is my issue with the 2 trades the Sabres have made:  they are not the trades that are made by a 79 point team that is committed to making the playoffs after 5 straight years of missing under a GM who is in the last year of a contract (never mind Pegula's larger 14-year Reign of Error).

Shayna Goldman said something similar on Sabres Live, when explaining why she graded Utah higher than the Sabres in the Peterka deal. It's not that the trade is entirely bad or that the players coming in aren't good, it's that the Sabres need something bigger, something more substantive, something that puts them on the path to being a playoff team this year.  The two trades they have made so far, do address handedness on D (something Adams previously told us he doesn't worry about), and they do make the Sabres bigger and harder to play against (also things that Adams previously seemed unconcerned by). They don't make the Sabres more experienced (by age, games played, playoff history, etc.). On balance, they probably don't make the Sabres more talented as Peterka would currently be considered the best "talent" in the trades.  They do make the Sabres younger and cheaper, and a reasonable concern is that these are the most important factors. 

Until we see the return on the Byram trade and/or what the Sabres do in free agency or with other trades, these are trades that nibble on the edges of what the Sabres need to do to take a next step. For now, the big picture is that the trades are fine (I guess), but ultimately they are not the big swings that the Sabres need to take.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Archie Lee

[Turbo44]

8 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Some additional Timmins numbers:

Benefitted from his end-of-season time with Karlsson on the Pens. Like Buffalo, Pittsburgh finished strong when the stakes were low and their season was over.

1-6-7 and +9 in those 17 games. And he did it with 53% D-zone starts. That's really good.

What could be a bit alarming? 1 takeaway, 15 credited giveaways in those 17 games.

 

What physicality does he bring? Career-wise: 137 hits in 159 NHL games (.86 hits per game; which is basically the same as JBD ; but about .2 fewer hits per game than Jokiharju.)

Good find. Karlsson is terrible defensively, so this could be a good thing. If Byram is traded and nobody else added, first, yikes, 2nd, I guess you play Dahlin and Power with Sammy and the two new RHD's and see what clicks.

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Good find. Karlsson is terrible defensively, so this could be a good thing. If Byram is traded and nobody else added, first, yikes, 2nd, I guess you play Dahlin and Power with Sammy and the two new RHD's and see what clicks.

A lot of his numbers, with Pittsburgh of all teams, were much better when he played with someone OTHER than Karlsson:

Corsi for %:  With Karlsson 54.9   With anyone else as his partner:  61.1 (those are both really good numbers, anything about 50 is 'positive'

Fenwick:  With Karlsson 51.3  With anyone else:  59.7

Shots for/against:  With Karlsson  52.5  With anyone else:  59.6

Goals for/Against:  With Karlsson 30  With anyone else: 78.6 (really, really good number)

expected goals:  With Karlsson 50.5  With anyone else: 62.1

High Danger chances: With Karlsson 45  With anyone else: 61.3

High danger goals:  With Karlsson 28.5  With anyone else: 66.6

So, that is only from last year in his short time with Pittsburgh, and that is with limited minutes. But in the time he played with and without Karlsson, he not only did better without Karlsson, he was really really good.

I haven't had a chance to do a deep dive into his numbers with Toronto for the rest of the year, but at quick glance, they are "OK" (everything is near 50, slightly above or slightly below, but not bad)

Edited 6 hours ago by mjd1001

[Turbo44]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

A lot of his numbers, with Pittsburgh of all teams, were much better when he played with someone OTHER than Karlsson:

Corsi for %:  With Karlsson 54.9   With anyone else as his partner:  61.1 (those are both really good numbers, anything about 50 is 'positive'

Fenwick:  With Karlsson 51.3  With anyone else:  59.7

Shots for/against:  With Karlsson  52.5  With anyone else:  59.6

Goals for/Against:  With Karlsson 30  With anyone else: 78.6 (really, really good number)

expected goals:  With Karlsson 50.5  With anyone else: 62.1

High Danger chances: With Karlsson 45  With anyone else: 61.3

High danger goals:  With Karlsson 28.5  With anyone else: 66.6

So, that is only from last year in his short time with Pittsburgh, and that is with limited minutes. But in the time he played with and without Karlsson, he not only did better without Karlsson, he was really really good.

Makes sense as Karlsson is basically a forward playing D

[Scottysabres]

10 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Almost everything I read said Timmons is basically Clifton without the physicality. This seems like another cost cutting move. We have 1 of the worst rosters in the NHL lead by the blind and now we’re pinching pennies besides.

Yes, but maybe we’re pinching Pennie’s to see what’s behind door # July 1st…..

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

A lot of his numbers, with Pittsburgh of all teams, were much better when he played with someone OTHER than Karlsson:

Corsi for %:  With Karlsson 54.9   With anyone else as his partner:  61.1 (those are both really good numbers, anything about 50 is 'positive'

Fenwick:  With Karlsson 51.3  With anyone else:  59.7

Shots for/against:  With Karlsson  52.5  With anyone else:  59.6

Goals for/Against:  With Karlsson 30  With anyone else: 78.6 (really, really good number)

expected goals:  With Karlsson 50.5  With anyone else: 62.1

High Danger chances: With Karlsson 45  With anyone else: 61.3

High danger goals:  With Karlsson 28.5  With anyone else: 66.6

So, that is only from last year in his short time with Pittsburgh, and that is with limited minutes. But in the time he played with and without Karlsson, he not only did better without Karlsson, he was really really good.

I haven't had a chance to do a deep dive into his numbers with Toronto for the rest of the year, but at quick glance, they are "OK" (everything is near 50, slightly above or slightly below, but not bad)

How often do we bemoan that defenders take until 25, 26, 27 to each their prime. Asking rhetorical not to you per say

[Turbo44]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Yes, but maybe we’re pinching Pennie’s to see what’s behind door # July 1st…..

One can only hope and pray. Based on recent history, I'm prepared to be disappointed

[DarthEbriate]

12 minutes ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

Went out of your way to find something bad? Lol he is an upgrade.  Move on

What's bad about it, exactly?

We don't want to give Quinn too much credit for finishing the season hot after the results didn't matter. Timmins was able to do the same with Pittsburgh.

The first stat +9 on a bad team without O-zone start preference is definitely good.

The second stat I added because it's very extreme. He's normally a bit over 2:1 giveaways to takeaways, which is fine. But with Pitt he was not protecting the puck at all. It's a crazy outlier.

The third stat is for the overall "we're getting bigger and tougher". Timmins is bigger than Clifton, Jokiharju, and JBD (the guys he's replacing), but he is not more physical.

[LGR4GM]

BTW, who knows if these moves will work. They are all risky. 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

What's bad about it, exactly?

We don't want to give Quinn too much credit for finishing the season hot after the results didn't matter. Timmins was able to do the same with Pittsburgh.

The first stat +9 on a bad team without O-zone start preference is definitely good.

The second stat I added because it's very extreme. He's normally a bit over 2:1 giveaways to takeaways, which is fine. But with Pitt he was not protecting the puck at all. It's a crazy outlier.

The third stat is for the overall "we're getting bigger and tougher". Timmins is bigger than Clifton, Jokiharju, and JBD (the guys he's replacing), but he is not more physical.

People are going to bitch and moan no matter what we do as we are all jaded from 14 years.  We have seen what getting big name players does.  You figure people would get tired of complaining.  But that's what the board is for.  I am glad I am not like that anymore.  You hate the team,  find another one like my wife says.  Lol the moves made so far are not prefect but we are better defensively and bigger.  It's what we need to be

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

BTW, who knows if these moves will work. They are all risky. 

True... we thought Hall was going to make us better... 

[mjd1001]

Upon further looking at NHL edge, other analytics numbers, his basic numbers, some highlights posted here, some discussion on the leafs board, some discussion here, and most importantly (for me), me remembering talk about him or watching him with Toronto, my summary of all that regarding Timmins is (and of course I could be totally wrong):

-Good skater but very slow (kinda like Jeff Skinner but slower)

-Decent size but not an overly physical player, but can use his size for positioning.

-Decent accuracy to his shot but not hard shot at all.

-Doesn't like to carry the puck. He'll get it passed to him and move it quickly by passing it up to a forward.

-Pretty good decision maker in the offensive zone. He knows his limitations and will get the puck to players in better position.

Overall, not high on the raw skills, not an aggressive player physically, not aggressive in the offensive zone, or the defensive zone, but willing to play his position and the role asked of him.

[oddoublee]

Just now, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

People are going to bitch and moan no matter what we do as we are all jaded from 14 years.  We have seen what getting big name players does.  You figure people would get tired of complaining.  But that's what the board is for.  I am glad I am not like that anymore.  You hate the team,  find another one like my wife says.  Lol the moves made so far are not prefect but we are better defensively and bigger.  It's what we need to be

I think we can all agree the roster construction was poor. These moves help them move in the right direction to alleviate that. All of that said....they NEED a top 6 f or c before mid July....and a decent goalie add.

I'm just going to enjoy seeing how this plays out over the next week. This is a fun time of year. 

[GoPuckYourself]

9 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Yes, but maybe we’re pinching Pennie’s to see what’s behind door # July 1st…..

I’m really hoping this is the case since they’re acting like they just made it to a Stanley Cup final.

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, oddoublee said:

I think we can all agree the roster construction was poor. These moves help them move in the right direction to alleviate that. All of that said....they NEED a top 6 f or c before mid July....and a decent goalie add.

I'm just going to enjoy seeing how this plays out over the next week. This is a fun time of year. 

Agree. While I do like watching the games, for me the 'building of the team' is almost as fun, sometimes more fun than the games themselves.

There are race car drivers, and their are mechanics that build the race care. More often I find myself a bit more interested in watching the car get built and learning how its built than always watching the guy drive it in circles for 3 hours.

[GoPuckYourself]

5 minutes ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

People are going to bitch and moan no matter what we do as we are all jaded from 14 years.  We have seen what getting big name players does.  You figure people would get tired of complaining.  But that's what the board is for.  I am glad I am not like that anymore.  You hate the team,  find another one like my wife says.  Lol the moves made so far are not prefect but we are better defensively and bigger.  It's what we need to be

True... we thought Hall was going to make us better... 

Since when? You were bitching and moaning all season long with the rest of us. How quick we forget!

[oddoublee]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Upon further looking at NHL edge, other analytics numbers, his basic numbers, some highlights posted here, some discussion on the leafs board, some discussion here, and most importantly (for me), me remembering talk about him or watching him with Toronto, my summary of all that regarding Timmins is (and of course I could be totally wrong):

-Good skater but very slow (kinda like Jeff Skinner but slower)

-Decent size but not an overly physical player, but can use his size for positioning.

-Decent accuracy to his shot but not hard shot at all.

-Doesn't like to carry the puck. He'll get it passed to him and move it quickly by passing it up to a forward.

-Pretty good decision maker in the offensive zone. He knows his limitations and will get the puck to players in better position.

Overall, not high on the raw skills, not an aggressive player physically, not aggressive in the offensive zone, or the defensive zone, but willing to play his position and the role asked of him.

Bolded- I'm actually good with that too. There are a lot of veteran NHL dmen that get multi year 4-5m contracts for being just that  

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Didn't think you would be an Adams apologetic? I try to be rationale as I'm reserving judgment until i see what he does next week, but in his 5 years he's been pretty disasterous. I cautiously like what he's done so far this year but if the roster stays as it is, this is another 70-80 point team and he'll be fired. Minimum, if he trades Byram, he needs a top 6 forward. He would also have a huge hole at D2 (sammy aint it) and Goalie (not sure where his love of UPL comes from).

I'm not apologizing for him, I just don't care about 2nd round picks after 14yrs of no playoffs.