Chad D: expect a Byram trade at or around the draft

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I know dude but you can’t just ignore the playmaking in totality which you completely did in you’re initial write up - no mention of it when Norris was supposedly replacing cozens AND jj’s offence - think of what you are saying. It can’t be made out a a negligent factor when it’s a severe weakened of Norris. It’s particularly egregious to not mention it when 24 goals represents 9 more than his career average 

I think we can agree that’s no sure thing 

You using averages that don't account for games played in the years you are talking about is a major issue in this analysis. 

But yea, I don't worry about the playmaking part of things. I think between the defense and the rest of the forwards Norris will be fine and Tage already has improved his playmaking over the years. Cozens was SO BAD defensively that any playmaking we lose with him gone is made up for by having even an average defensive forward.

[Thorny]

Imagine playing more than an 82 game season and having 2 primary assists lol 

Just now, LGR4GM said:

You using averages that don't account for games played in the years you are talking about is a major issue in this analysis. 

But yea, I don't worry about the playmaking part of things. I think between the defense and the rest of the forwards Norris will be fine and Tage already has improved his playmaking over the years. Cozens was SO BAD defensively that any playmaking we lose with him gone is made up for by having even an average defensive forward.

I wish I could see it like you and Kev I really do 

[LGR4GM]

Peterka is good at one thing we should be concerned about, it isn't shooting. Peterka was very good at bringing the puck up ice into the offensive zone. It is probably a contributing factor to his 2nd assist totals. 

[Thorny]

“Norris will be fine” does seem to be the crux of their thinking 

[dudacek]

Alex Tuch and Tage Thompson aren’t playmakers in the Dale Hawerchuk/Tim Connolly sense that they look to pass, but they are in the sense that they get the puck up ice and to the net and they create space and opportunity others can exploit. Peterka was the same way

Zach Benson and Jack Quinn aren’t there yet, but they have that skillset.

Norris and Kulich need those types of wingers to be successful, but the flip side is that they do complement those types of wingers.

Edited 13 hours ago by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Imagine playing more than an 82 game season and having 2 primary assists lol 

I wish I could see it like you and Kev I really do 

This is getting old Thorny. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you throw out this little childish barb that they are in line with or in agreement with or as dumb as Kevyn Adams. I don't see it like kev and your dismissive tone here is kinda how you've been around here for months. If ppl don't see it your way, they are dumb kevyn adams lovers. It's weak sauce. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Alex Tuch and Tage Thompson aren’t playmakers in the Dale Hawerchuk/Tim Connolly sense that they look to pass, but they are in the sense that they get the puck up ice and to the net and they create space and opportunity others can exploit. Peterka was the same way

Zach Benson and Jack Quinn aren’t there yet, but they have that skillset.

Norris and Kulich need those types of wingers to be successful, but the flip side is that they do complement those types of wingers.

I feel like Benson is a playmaker outright unlike the others mentioned 

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This is getting old Thorny. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you throw out this little childish barb that they are in line with or in agreement with or as dumb as Kevyn Adams. I don't see it like kev and your dismissive tone here is kinda how you've been around here for months. If ppl don't see it your way, they are dumb kevyn adams lovers. It's weak sauce. 

No, I’m serious. You are explaining the exact thinking Adams must be using on the forwards. How can you be offended by that? You don’t think you are hitting on the reasons he’s using to explain it to himself? Do you think he’s just randomly throwing it together and you are coming up with reasons it could work he didn’t think of? 

Edited 13 hours ago by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

I am not saying that we shouldn't add more to the offense or anything like that. I am saying I think anyone simply saying we have to replace "27g" because of JJ Peterka isn't looking at all the nuances of things. It is an oversimplified way of discussing it and I think the real number is more like 10-15g. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This is getting old Thorny. Whenever someone disagrees with you, you throw out this little childish barb that they are in line with or in agreement with or as dumb as Kevyn Adams. I don't see it like kev and your dismissive tone here is kinda how you've been around here for months. If ppl don't see it your way, they are dumb kevyn adams lovers. It's weak sauce. 

I haven’t “been any way for months” my guy you are fighting with multiple people in multiple threads at all times haha. I enjoy discussing with you but you don’t with me - just ignore my posts - the ignore is right there. I’m not going to change and I like you so it’s going to have to be on you 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I feel like Benson is a playmaker outright unlike the others mentioned 

No, I’m serious. You are explaining the exact thinking Adams must be using on the forwards. How can you be offended by that? You don’t think you are hitting on the reasons he’s using to explain it to himself? Do you think he’s just randomly throwing it together and you are coming up with reasons it could work he didn’t think of? 

Oh no, Kevyn Adams had the same thought I did!?! Whatever shall I do!? 

I am sure he has, my question isn't did I have the same thought as adams, it is how right is that thought. Again, it isn't about being right for me, it is about getting it right. Saying we need to replace 27g from JJ Peterka is not getting it right. 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Peterka is good at one thing we should be concerned about, it isn't shooting. Peterka was very good at bringing the puck up ice into the offensive zone. It is probably a contributing factor to his 2nd assist totals. 

The other thing to consider in the way the Sabres are built at the moment is that they have 3 elite passers on the blueline that other teams don’t have.

They’re kinda built like a basketball team where the centre’s role is to defend and finish and the guys at the back are in charge of distributing.

[DarthEbriate]

G/60 should be the ideal stat to use for Norris, except ... he's had one season at 66 games, and that was an anomaly. His typical high is mid-50s. 3,8,50,56,56,66. We must not assume he stays healthy enough to get to 25G.

Benson is the playmaker that none of the others is. He's a high-danger generation machine -- and someday he's going to make Kulich (or Norris) rich. The problem with a shoot-only center like Norris or Kulich is that there's no subterfuge, no shot-pass back to the winger for a tap-in.

The 2 primary assists stat on Norris is absurd. I mean -- someone would get a deflection on occasion, right? Goal goes in off a leg or a skate? That's a cool trivia stat, right there.

Edit: Note, Norris already is rich.

Edited 12 hours ago by DarthEbriate

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am not saying that we shouldn't add more to the offense or anything like that. I am saying I think anyone simply saying we have to replace "27g" because of JJ Peterka isn't looking at all the nuances of things. It is an oversimplified way of discussing it and I think the real number is more like 10-15g. 

The biggest thing I can say is “replacing what we had” is like….the furthest way from how I’d be approaching the roster. All I can do is maintain consistency of argument and I’ve been saying we are drastically in need of upgrades at all positions since the season ended. I think we really needed help  up top before we dealt JJ

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I haven’t “been any way for months” my guy you are fighting with multiple people in multiple threads at all times haha. I enjoy discussing with you but you don’t with me - just ignore my posts - the ignore is right there. I’m not going to change and I like you so it’s going to have to be on you 

No, you've been tossing out "okay kevyn" type of comments for quite a bit. Didn't tell you to stop either, just said it was a weak counter argument. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Oh no, Kevyn Adams had the same thought I did!?! Whatever shall I do!? 

I am sure he has, my question isn't did I have the same thought as adams, it is how right is that thought. Again, it isn't about being right for me, it is about getting it right. Saying we need to replace 27g from JJ Peterka is not getting it right. 

Ok we don’t need to replace 27 goals from JJ 

That’s not a sticking point for me 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The biggest thing I can say is “replacing what we had” is like….the furthest way from how I’d be approaching the roster. All I can do is maintain consistency of argument and I’ve been saying we are drastically in need of upgrades at all positions since the season ended. I think we really needed help  up top before we dealt JJ

I think we produced enough offense last year, we however had awful gt and bad team defense so it didnt matter. 

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ok we don’t need to replace 27 goals from JJ 

That’s not a sticking point for me 

because we don't

Edited 12 hours ago by LGR4GM
autocorrect lost its mind

[LGR4GM]

btw, if someone, anyone, wants to come in and look at assists lost with the moves and make that argument, that could be something to think about. 

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

G/60 should be the ideal stat to use for Norris, except ... he's had one season at 66 games, and that was an anomaly. His typical high is mid-50s. 3,8,50,56,56,66. We must not assume he stays healthy enough to get to 25G.

Benson is the playmaker that none of the others is. He's a high-danger generation machine -- and someday he's going to make Kulich (or Norris) rich. The problem with a shoot-only center like Norris or Kulich is that there's no subterfuge, no shot-pass back to the winger for a tap-in.

The 2 primary assists stat on Norris is absurd. I mean -- someone would get a deflection on occasion, right? Goal goes in off a leg or a skate? That's a cool trivia stat, right there.

Edit: Note, Norris already is rich.

I see the same in Benson. The type of playmaking we are severely lacking (that blends into PP efficiency, too) that no amount of proficiency of passing on our top D pair can make up for.

It’s always about depth. We don’t have enough playmaking. I don’t think we have close to enough 

Edited 12 hours ago by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I see the same in Benson. The type of playmaking we are severely lacking (that blends into PP efficiency, too) that no amount of proficiency passing on D can make up for 

He had the same rate for primary assists as JJP interestingly enough. 

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He had the same rate for primary assists as JJP interestingly enough. 

At 19.

Expecting one to be significanlty closer to his ceiling for that stat than the other.

[Warriorspikes51]

FWIW….likely not much haha

a rumor on X  has

Byram for Parayko, Bolduc, 3rd

[dudacek]

38 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I see the same in Benson. The type of playmaking we are severely lacking (that blends into PP efficiency, too) that no amount of proficiency of passing on our top D pair can make up for.

It’s always about depth. We don’t have enough playmaking. I don’t think we have close to enough 

As the roster currently stands, the biggest crying need is a playmaking top-six forward.

On the free agent front, i was thinking Patty Kane might be a good one, but he had just 17 primary assists. Best bets are Mikael Granlund with 31 (17th in the league) while Ehlers had 27

Other guys potentially available:

• Necas: 32
• Zibenajad 31
• Danault 28
• Rust 23
• Rossi 22

If Byram's gotta go and the Kings are interested, Danault is somebody I'd be looking at.

Only 21 NHL forwards had 30 primary assists

Jason Zucker(!) led the Sbres with 24. Never would have guessed that.

Not sure it's a stat I'd want to invest in heavily looking at the league leaders, but interesting and relevant.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by dudacek

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

As the roster currently stands, the biggest crying need is a playmaking top-six forward.

On the free agent front, i was thinking Patty Kane might be a good one, but he had just 17 primary assists. Best bets are Mikael Granlund with 31 (17th in the league) while Ehlers had 27

Other guys potentially available:

• Necas: 32
• Zibenajad 31
• Danault 28
• Rust 23
• Rossi 22

If Byram's gotta go and the Kings are interested, Danault is somebody I'd be looking at.

Only 21 NHL forwards had 30 primary assists

Jason Zucker(!) led the Sbres with 24. Never would have guessed that.

Not sure it's a stat I'd want to invest in heavily looking at the league leaders, but interesting and relevant.

 

Don't want Danault now 5 years later.  Will bring up thoughts of what should've been every single time he touches the puck.  Desperately wanted him 5 years ago rather than blowing everything up once again.

[Flashsabre]

17 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

FWIW….likely not much haha

a rumor on X  has

Byram for Parayko, Bolduc, 3rd

Take that deal and run. No way St Louis gives that much 🔝

[thewookie1]

17 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

FWIW….likely not much haha

a rumor on X  has

Byram for Parayko, Bolduc, 3rd

Love Parayko but that trade would be really strange as we'd suddenly have 4 new RHDs as of the deadline and a huge question mark at forward in general