Dec 6, 2024: Adams indicates it was Ruff's decision to go with current coaching staff

[Taro T]

And the crowds today are very comparable to the early season crowds in the late 90's/ early '00's.

People forget, but Atlanta on a Wednesday or Thursday night in late October was NOT going to have more than about 12k in the building.  Maybe not even that many.  The corners of the 300's were absolutely devoid of fans and lower sections had significant fanless seasts as well.

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Who promoted Rolston? Who was the ringleader in the USNTDP-only hiring process?

Regier promoted him to be the interim HC and then gave him the job outright without performing a legit coaching search.  (Seems somewhat familiar ...)

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Regier promoted him to be the interim HC and then gave him the job outright without performing a legit coaching search.  (Seems somewhat familiar ...)

Right, but where did that link come from? Rolston was the US U18 head coach, but the folks on the Sabres staff were Regier, Numminen, Patrick, and our good friend Adams. None of them had a USNTDP connection to sell Regier/Pegula on Sabres University.

Clarification: The interim promotion was from two years in Rochester...  but who was the key instigator in getting him from USNTDP into Rochester?

Edited yesterday at 06:26 PM by DarthEbriate

[darksabre]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

There was nobody in the buliding immediately coming out of the COVID lockout (meaning the following full season; not the shortened one that they only sold handfuls of tix to).  It would've been like that.  That Rolston team was completely unwatchable and would've given the '74'75 Caps a good run for their money.

That was the whole point! They knew it was going to be unwatchable! 

 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, darksabre said:

That was the whole point! They knew it was going to be unwatchable! 

 

No.  Honestly don't believe that ownership realized just how unwatchable it would be.  Don't believe Team Stormcloud that was calling for a tank long before it happened realized just how unwatchable it would be either for that matter.

And ownership not understanding just what they'd unleashed is IMHO the reason why Regier doing EXACTLY what he'd said he'd do ended up getting himself canned.  He literally did what he said he would and presumably upper management & ownership either made the call to burn it all down (far more likely IMHO) or at a minimum agreed with the plan to burn it all down (significantly less likely, but possible) which is why he was burning it down.

Regier knew how bad it would be and tried to brace people for it.  Personally don't believe the owners nor the Pittsburgh crew knew just how terrible it would be.  But they found out pretty quickly.

And pretty sure that's why Ruff was fired.  They let him get away from the misery he saw coming and seemed to want no part of.  They did a mercy Kervorkian on him because he would not pull the plug on his own.

EDIT:  But also, Regier knew that they'd need goaltending to come back up from the ashes.  So he made the team in front of Miller so bad that even he couldn't do much to help them.  But he didn't punt Miller.  That was the next guy's doing.

Edited 23 hours ago by Taro T

[darksabre]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

No.  Honestly don't believe that ownership realized just how unwatchable it would be.  Don't believe Team Stormcloud that was calling for a tank long before it happened realized just how unwatchable it would be either for that matter.

And ownership not understanding just what they'd unleashed is IMHO the reason why Regier doing EXACTLY what he'd said he'd do ended up getting himself canned.  He literally did what he said he would and presumably upper management & ownership either made the call to burn it all down (far more likely IMHO) or at a minimum agreed with the plan to burn it all down (significantly less likely, but possible) which is why he was burning it down.

Regier knew how bad it would be and tried to brace people for it.  Personally don't believe the owners nor the Pittsburgh crew knew just how terrible it would be.  But they found out pretty quickly.

And pretty sure that's why Ruff was fired.  They let him get away from the misery he saw coming and seemed to want no part of.  They did a mercy Kervorkian on him because he would not pull the plug on his own.

EDIT:  But also, Regier knew that they'd need goaltending to come back up from the ashes.  So he made the team in front of Miller so bad that even he couldn't do much to help them.  But he didn't punt Miller.  That was the next guy's doing.

This is the thing, right? He had a plan. He executed the plan. And then everyone got mad for not understanding the plan.

Pegula should have sucked it up and rode it out. But he couldn't do that, because he thought he knew better. He figured he could just "business genius" his way out of things. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

This is the thing, right? He had a plan. He executed the plan. And then everyone got mad for not understanding the plan.

Pegula should have sucked it up and rode it out. But he couldn't do that, because he thought he knew better. He figured he could just "business genius" his way out of things. 

Agree with this on a certain level.  But on another level, would say Pegula should never have gone along with the plan (or should never have come up with the plan, if that was in fact the case).

The model franchise for the tank, the Pens, particularly the mid-80's version nearly moved.  The Pens were very bad and were a serious 3rd place behind the Stealers and the Pirates.  (Heck, the Pitt Panthers probably had a bigger following than the Pens.)  And even with Super Mario and Jagr and Stevens and Barrasso and Coffey and ... it still took several years to become that SC winning squad and bringing in Ron Francis and Trottier.

Should never have tanked.  But once the decision was made, AND the decision to do a slow rebuild (the point of getting all those tons of draft picks) was made yes they should've stuck with that piece of the plan (even if they did try to not rival the 70's Caps and early 80's Jets while being historically bad for a Sabres team).  But once the decision was made to go for the rapid rebuild, they should've stuck with THAT and not jetisoned O'Reilly.  But when the decision was made to recalibrate to having a stud C and a stud D and not a handful of stud Cs, they should've stuck with THAT.  But when the decision was made to recalibrate to being on the Dahlin timeline, they should've had somebody that knew how to build a team stick with that one.  Guess now we're onto another rapid rebuild phase again, or are we?  Wtf knows?

Lather, rinse, don't repeat but choose a different brand, lather, rinse, don't repeat but choose a different brand, and so on and so forth.

[darksabre]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

Agree with this on a certain level.  But on another level, would say Pegula should never have gone along with the plan (or should never have come up with the plan, if that was in fact the case).

The model franchise for the tank, the Pens, particularly the mid-80's version nearly moved.  The Pens were very bad and were a serious 3rd place behind the Stealers and the Pirates.  (Heck, the Pitt Panthers probably had a bigger following than the Pens.)  And even with Super Mario and Jagr and Stevens and Barrasso and Coffey and ... it still took several years to become that SC winning squad and bringing in Ron Francis and Trottier.

Should never have tanked.  But once the decision was made, AND the decision to do a slow rebuild (the point of getting all those tons of draft picks) was made yes they should've stuck with that piece of the plan (even if they did try to not rival the 70's Caps and early 80's Jets while being historically bad for a Sabres team).  But once the decision was made to go for the rapid rebuild, they should've stuck with THAT and not jetisoned O'Reilly.  But when the decision was made to recalibrate to having a stud C and a stud D and not a handful of stud Cs, they should've stuck with THAT.  But when the decision was made to recalibrate to being on the Dahlin timeline, they should've had somebody that knew how to build a team stick with that one.  Guess now we're onto another rapid rebuild phase again, or are we?  Wtf knows?

Lather, rinse, don't repeat but choose a different brand, lather, rinse, don't repeat but choose a different brand, and so on and so forth.

Yuuuuup.

It was bad enough they aborted Regier's plan before it was really even out of the gate. But the constant changing of courses afterwards just made things even worse.  

GMTM's whole thing probably works if Lehner wasn't constantly hurt and/or on drugs. He also probably could have used someone to act as a buffer between himself and the Pegulas, since he very clearly thought they were annoying morons. The fact that he hasn't returned to hockey management in any capacity means whatever he did, he couldn't come back from it. But I don't know if he was wrong...

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, Taro T said:

Well, Regier WAS a part of the organization at the time he declared there would be "suffering."  Should have been fired on the spot but instead he started us down this road and wasn't canned until Rolston directed an absolutely unwatchable product on the ice.

I don't blame Regier for being honest about the suffering.  How wants to lose on purpose?  

He was probably already sick of Terry and knew he was going to mess it up.  

[French Collection]

12 minutes ago, darksabre said:

GMTM's whole thing probably works if Lehner wasn't constantly hurt and/or on drugs. He also probably could have used someone to act as a buffer between himself and the Pegulas, since he very clearly thought they were annoying morons. The fact that he hasn't returned to hockey management in any capacity means whatever he did, he couldn't come back from it. But I don't know if he was wrong...

My father in law taught school with Bryan Murray and knew the family. He used to say they were tough and honest people who told it like it was.

I don’t think diplomacy was GMTMs strong suit and the meddling was probably too much.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I don't blame Regier for being honest about the suffering.  How wants to lose on purpose?  

He was probably already sick of Terry and knew he was going to mess it up.  

 

If your actions are going to cause "suffering" you need to pick a different course of action.  And if you can't see that, you need to be removed from your position.

Their in the entertainment business.  There is nothing entertaining about being made to suffer.

[Weave]

35 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

If your actions are going to cause "suffering" you need to pick a different course of action.  And if you can't see that, you need to be removed from your position.

Their in the entertainment business.  There is nothing entertaining about being made to suffer.

If you are following direct orders from the guy with the deep pockets, which I believe was the case here, the only other course of action is resignation.

Regarding the general tone of this post, well yeah, the anti-tank crew were preaching that all along.  

[Weave]

And, I guess I never thought about it very much, but I am now convinced that Darcy’s firing and Murray’s actions that led to his firing are the result of how Pegula wants to run his business.  Add Botteril to the mix, and likely LaFontaine, and Terry has chewed through a ton of front office personnel due to his need to be a decision maker.

We’re positively ***** as fans.

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, Weave said:

And, I guess I never thought about it very much, but I am now convinced that Darcy’s firing and Murray’s actions that led to his firing are the result of how Pegula wants to run his business.  Add Botteril to the mix, and likely LaFontaine, and Terry has chewed through a ton of front office personnel due to his need to be a decision maker.

We’re positively ***** as fans.

Not if the person after Ruff who is the primary influencer (Jarmo?) doesn't undo the core of Dahlin, TNT (and I'd add Tuch, Benson, and Muel...   ha! kidding, just seeing if people are reading closely, though I still need him as the oft-injured Muel-PO to R2-D6) and push them all for new futures and a new direction. Keep Dahlin and TNT, and get that goalie, top-4 RHD, and exchange Quinn for a bottom-6 SOB, and you're at least on the path. Still need a top-6 C for whenever Norris is hurt, but...   Adams has difficulty doing more than one thing per offseason, so...

With regards to changing direction: for example, like going full toughness, instead of Florida's style of toughness (great players like Marchand, Ekblad, Bennett, Tkachuk who also happen to be tough). If someone comes in and ships out Tuch for a D-Lo type, we're ######, yes. But you can absolutely move Lafferty for a D-Lo type.

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

 

If your actions are going to cause "suffering" you need to pick a different course of action.  And if you can't see that, you need to be removed from your position.

Their in the entertainment business.  There is nothing entertaining about being made to suffer.

He was following orders.  He should have just walked away.