Do the players care?

[msw2112]

While there are many professional athletes and NHL players who don't care (and are content to be a millionaire playing a game for a living), I think this current Sabres team does care.  I think they care about winning, the franchise, the fans, and the community.  The team has sought out those types of players and people.  Most of they guys on the roster are competitive guys (Tuch, Dahlin, Cozens, Skinner, Thompson, Krebs, Okposo, and many others).  They are guys that like being in Buffalo and want to be there.  It's a criterion set forth by Adams - "we only want guys that want to be here" - and they stick to it.

I believe that this team simply doesn't know how to manage the rigors of an NHL game and an NHL season and play more consistently.  It's been stated elsewhere that it's an 80% league during the regular season (I could have the percentage wrong, but hopefully, you get the idea).  As much as we the fans would love to see 100% effort every shift, every game, it's not possible.  If the players did that, they'd be exhausted, burn out, and have more injuries.  There are just too many games, and the game is too fast and physical.  They'd be out of gas by mid-season.  Veteran players know how to manage the game and the season - how to play just hard enough (80%) to stay in the game, and then to give full effort in other situations when it is required - third period of close games, etc.  They also know how to manage their energy/effort levels from game to game, such as "4 point games" and playoff games.

This team does not know how to do this.  They go gangbusters one night and look great, beating some of the top teams the league like Boston and the NY Rangers, then fall flat on their faces, coming out flat against other teams.  Or, as they did the other night in Colorado, they come out flat and fall way behind, before finding their game and taking over.  The problem with the later is that if you face a hot goalie, or have bad puck luck (hitting posts, etc.) it's too little too late.

I don't know if it's the inexperience of the players, the inexperience of the coaching staff, or something else, but they need to figure it out.  Maybe, as has been suggested here, they need more veteran players who know how to regulate and to teach the younger guys how to do it.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by msw2112

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, pastajoe said:

It’s possible that too many of the younger players have been given big long-term contracts before they’ve proven they can maintain the level of play that’s expected. They may have lost that hunger to excel, combined with some veterans who are providing diminishing returns.

It's possible.  Expect it's more of a case of young guys not having enough experienced guys that have actually been there for them to lean on when they start gripping the sticks too tight.  Expect as @Marvin points out the way they're supposed to be playing isn't ingrained yet and they end up thinking too much when things aren't going right and then reverting to old habits.

It was an interesting experiment, trying to get a losing team to get good at the fun part of the game before getting good at the harder part of the game.  @PerreaultForever hated the idea from day 1.  And maybe if the proper support pieces were brought in this offseason it could've worked.  But so far it isn't there.  And we're left with hoping that when the F's get healthy they can work the new system the way it's supposed to work because it isn't very likely that the GM will be bringing in outside help beyond a Robinson type that helps at the fringes.

The experiment CAN work, but with some major growing pains.  The Eulers of the 80's famously took to heart losing to the Aisles in '83 and figuring out that they needed to compete harder and get grittier to get over the top.  Playing loose could get them to the Finals because they were so much better than the other teams in their conference; but they bore down when they got to the Finals and beat a beat up Phlyers or Broons after that rematch with the Aisles.

But right now the whole thing is frustrating.

Hopefully tonight they get the 1st W of the 1st win streak.

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Taro T said:

It's possible.  Expect it's more of a case of young guys not having enough experienced guys that have actually been there for them to lean on when they start gripping the sticks too tight.  Expect as @Marvin points out the way they're supposed to be playing isn't ingrained yet and they end up thinking too much when things aren't going right and then reverting to old habits.

It was an interesting experiment, trying to get a losing team to get good at the fun part of the game before getting good at the harder part of the game.  @PerreaultForever hated the idea from day 1.  And maybe if the proper support pieces were brought in this offseason it could've worked.  But so far it isn't there.  And we're left with hoping that when the F's get healthy they can work the new system the way it's supposed to work because it isn't very likely that the GM will be bringing in outside help beyond a Robinson type that helps at the fringes.

The experiment CAN work, but with some major growing pains.  The Eulers of the 80's famously took to heart losing to the Aisles in '83 and figuring out that they needed to compete harder and get grittier to get over the top.  Playing loose could get them to the Finals because they were so much better than the other teams in their conference; but they bore down when they got to the Finals and beat a beat up Phlyers or Broons after that rematch with the Aisles.

But right now the whole thing is frustrating.

Hopefully tonight they get the 1st W of the 1st win streak.

In fairness to them though, as we saw with this Vegas game, when they do bear down and bring it as a team they can play quite good, and even the team D is much better. maybe we have to get rid of Skinner like Carolina did. Just a thought. 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

In fairness to them though, as we saw with this Vegas game, when they do bear down and bring it as a team they can play quite good, and even the team D is much better. maybe we have to get rid of Skinner like Carolina did. Just a thought. 

Would really suck if getting rid of Skinner is necessary for them to play like this consistently.  Because with his NMC he ain't goin' anywhere.

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

In fairness to them though, as we saw with this Vegas game, when they do bear down and bring it as a team they can play quite good, and even the team D is much better. maybe we have to get rid of Skinner like Carolina did. Just a thought. 

There’s over-analysis of one game in an 82 game season and one game in a 13 year drought and then there’s this. We didn’t win because we are better without one of our best players. If it’s a better line configuration on L1 without him that’s a *coaching issue*. If we need to save the team from themselves by not playing Skinner that would be a bandaid fix for an issue surely to arise with other lineup decisions 

[LTS]

11 hours ago, seer775 said:

The players have one job: Play. The owner's job is to Win.

The owner doesn't play the game.  They can't win anything.   imagine a player standing on the ice and not skating.  "I'm here, playing!.  The owner is like, "I gotta win, skate harder!"  The player is like, "Nah, bro."

8 hours ago, Goldseatsaud said:

Care not as much when your making a ton of money for a 21 year old

You don't get to the point where you make a ton of money as 21 year old unless you embody a mindset of bury your opponent.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LTS said:

The owner doesn't play the game.  They can't win anything.   imagine a player standing on the ice and not skating.  "I'm here, playing!.  The owner is like, "I gotta win, skate harder!"  The player is like, "Nah, bro."

You don't get to the point where you make a ton of money as 21 year old unless you embody a mindset of bury your opponent.

It sure as heck makes dealing with the losses easier, though 

[Thorny]

Any player worth their weight will care as much as the fans do in the moment: the competitive nature the game requires at the highest level is considerable. But the players will never care about the *Buffalo Sabres* as much as the fans. We love the crest. We have the history. We feel the weight of it in a way they never could, including the drought. Most of these guys didn’t give 2 sh*ts about the Sabres before signing a contract here: they are professionals. It’s a job. A job they may love: but it’s still a job. 

So do they care as much in the moment? I’d say yes. Does the millions of dollars they make soften the blow? Of course. Do they care about the Buffalo Sabres franchise, beyond their current teammates? Not close to the level of a fan. When they get moved to a new team, that’s their team. 

So yes, they of course care. There isn’t any lack of it to the extent it would affect winning, imo. They care about winning. It’s just useful to keep in mind the things they don’t care about, as much 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Would really suck if getting rid of Skinner is necessary for them to play like this consistently.  Because with his NMC he ain't goin' anywhere.

There's always a buy out 🙂

 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

There’s over-analysis of one game in an 82 game season and one game in a 13 year drought and then there’s this. We didn’t win because we are better without one of our best players. If it’s a better line configuration on L1 without him that’s a *coaching issue*. If we need to save the team from themselves by not playing Skinner that would be a bandaid fix for an issue surely to arise with other lineup decisions 

idk if Skinner is a problem, but that was what they were saying in Carolina. The "uncoachable" thing has come up many times in the past right or wrong. He certainly does seem to very often be marching to his own drummer out there. Offensively this can lead to a goal, but defensively it can be disastrous. There are guys with talent who simply make teams worse, and teams are better off after they jettison them. It's possible, that's all I'm saying. Not necessarily even probable, but possible. 

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

There's always a buy out 🙂

 

6 years of having $3MM less cap space than everybody else is a self-imposed penalty would really rather see them avoid.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

6 years of having $3MM less cap space than everybody else is a self-imposed penalty would really rather see them avoid.

I know, I know, but we don't spend to the cap anyway so maybe it wouldn't matter. imo the signing was a huge mistake and I still think that. The alternative is a very strong leadership group that drives the locker room and elevates everyone, including him (as much as he listens to anybody). 

[seer775]

On 12/16/2023 at 1:22 AM, LTS said:

The owner doesn't play the game.  They can't win anything.   imagine a player standing on the ice and not skating.  "I'm here, playing!.  The owner is like, "I gotta win, skate harder!"  The player is like, "Nah, bro."

You don't get to the point where you make a ton of money as 21 year old unless you embody a mindset of bury your opponent.

Then the owner goes to the GM and says "get rid of that guy or I'll get rid of you".

[Skibum]

Oh, for crying out loud. Of course they care. They just aren't very good at winning these days.