GDT- GAME 6: Bears @ Americans 7:05pm, TV-MSG (NYS only) & AHL TV, Radio 95.7 FM/950 AM (ROC)

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

They are, definitely. That's kind of my constant issue though. Too much one way for this team, too extreme. Teams need balanced rosters with veterans and young guys. This is why they sign Okposo I guess but it's not enough. We need to add some character veterans to play with and lead all these young guys. Their plan seems to be to wait until our young guys become veterans (or close to it) and they lead themselves. Eventually it might work, but it will still take several years this way. 

I thought we were ready to leap forward this year and now I think we are definitely there and due, but we need to add 3 or 4 pieces and not just wait for Kulich and Savoie etc. 

We need to win now and make these new kids fight for roster spots and press the vets. We are so close I can feel it, but it's time to make the moves. 

Which of Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, Krebs and Peterka should have their roles cut back from last year?

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Which of Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, Krebs and Peterka should have their roles cut back from last year?

Skinner (-) Thompson (-) Tuch (=)

Peterka (+) Cozens (+) Quinn (+)

Mittelstadt (+) Krebs (+) Okposo (-)

Girgensons (=) Kulich/Jost (=) Greenway (=)

...is kinda where my mind goes when thinking about the (botterill’s voice) Forward Group. 

Cautiously I’ll predict some statistical regression from Skinner, Thompson, and Okposo.

Peterka, Cozens, Quinn, Mittelstadt, Krebs, I’m reasonably confident in upswings.

Tuch, Girgs, 4C Guy, Greenway*, these 4 ill predict more less a status quo. 

Anyone can do the math there and see things look pretty darn good should the projections hold close, considering the fOrWaRd gRoUp was already, league relative, excellent last season (ymmv depending on thought on 200 ft play). But regardless, there’s improvement to be found. I’d say it’s quite likely. 

Our goalies sucked. It’s funny how much people are, IMO, overthinking this. Add Hellebuyck and go. 

*I almost went + for Greenway but consider the = a wilful check on my own bias 

[Thorny]

Should be noted the little symbols aren’t a commentary on role diminishing/increasing, merely where I project the output 

[dudacek]

So I was trying to think of the last team that built a champion the way the Sabres are trying to, assembling a young core and chucking them into the deep end together.

The best match seems to be the Blackhawks, who miss the playoffs in 2007/08, then won the cup 2 years later.

In between they went to final 4 with an inexperienced lineup almost totally bereft of veterans. They literally did not even have an Okposo or a Girgensons, adding vet Sami Pahlsson at the deadline for the closest comparable.

Here’s how the career NHL games played stack up between 2023/24 Sabres vs the 2008/09 Blackhawks for players being asked to play similar roles.

• Okposo 984-
• Skinner 939- Havlat 470
• Girgensons 625-
• Tuch 379 Ladd 157
• Dahlin 355 Keith 322
• Greenway 334 Eager 195
• Thompson 301 Kane 162
• Lyubushkin 279 Byfuglien 178
• Mittelstadt 277 Sharp 334
• Jokiharju 273 Campbell 493
• Cozens 201 Toews 146
• Krebs 135 Bolland 121
• Samuelsson 109 Hjalmarsson 34
• Power 87 Seabrook 314
• Peterka 79 Versteeg 91
• Quinn 77 Brouwer 81

The next year they added Hossa and John Madden as the missing pieces and won it all.

Edited June 5, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorny]

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So I was trying to think of the last team that built a champion the way the Sabres are trying to, assembling a young core and chucking them into the deep end together.

The best match seems to be the Blackhawks, who miss the playoffs in 2007/08, then won the cup 2 years later.

In between they went to final 4 with an inexperienced lineup almost totally bereft of veterans. They literally did not even have an Okposo or a Girgensons, adding vet Sami Pahlsson at the deadline for the closest comparable.

Here’s how the career NHL games played stack up between 2023/24 Sabres vs the 2008/09 Blackhawks for players being asked to play similar roles.

• Okposo 984-
• Skinner 939- Havlat 470
• Girgensons 625-
• Tuch 379 Ladd 157
• Dahlin 355 Keith 322
• Greenway 334 Eager 195
• Thompson 301 Kane 162
• Lyubushkin 279 Byfuglien 178
• Mittelstadt 277 Sharp 334
• Jokiharju 273 Campbell 493
• Cozens 201 Toews 146
• Krebs 135 Bolland 121
• Samuelsson 109 Hjalmarsson 34
• Power 87 Seabrook 314
• Peterka 79 Versteeg 91
• Quinn 77 Brouwer 81

The next year they added Hossa and John Madden as the missing pieces and won it all.

Had capable, established, good veteran goaltenders, though, holding the fort. The one exception I see.

If only there was one on the market..

Nikolai Khabibulin led the way in 08-09 with 42 games played, 15 in the playoffs. *who they ditched the following year*. But the standard was set that season and he was a big part of it. 

They actually had veteran Huet, too, who started 41. The following year, vet Huet remained, who transitioned to youngster Niemi (Levi?) by the time the playoffs started for 09-10. Niemi (22 gp in playoffs, Huet 1).

Levi could be our Niemi. What we don’t have, what we need, is the Khabibulin/Huet to guide the way. No more UPL/Comrie nonsense 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Thorny

[Weave]

40 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So I was trying to think of the last team that built a champion the way the Sabres are trying to, assembling a young core and chucking them into the deep end together.

The best match seems to be the Blackhawks, who miss the playoffs in 2007/08, then won the cup 2 years later.

In between they went to final 4 with an inexperienced lineup almost totally bereft of veterans. They literally did not even have an Okposo or a Girgensons, adding vet Sami Pahlsson at the deadline for the closest comparable.

Here’s how the career NHL games played stack up between 2023/24 Sabres vs the 2008/09 Blackhawks for players being asked to play similar roles.

• Okposo 984-
• Skinner 939- Havlat 470
• Girgensons 625-
• Tuch 379 Ladd 157
• Dahlin 355 Keith 322
• Greenway 334 Eager 195
• Thompson 301 Kane 162
• Lyubushkin 279 Byfuglien 178
• Mittelstadt 277 Sharp 334
• Jokiharju 273 Campbell 493
• Cozens 201 Toews 146
• Krebs 135 Bolland 121
• Samuelsson 109 Hjalmarsson 34
• Power 87 Seabrook 314
• Peterka 79 Versteeg 91
• Quinn 77 Brouwer 81

The next year they added Hossa and John Madden as the missing pieces and won it all.

Every offseason lately I have wanted to compile the age/experience of the rosters that made the playoffs, just to show that noone else is building playoff teams with such a lack of age diversity.  But every offseason the weather gets nice and I say ***** that, Im going outside.

I guess what we are doing isn’t unprecedented given Chicago did something similar, but it sure is an outlier.  The monolthic age structure of our roster is my primary concern.  Maybe my last remaining concern.

Excepting an unacceptable goalie situation of course.

[Randall Flagg]

Not that much time

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

The year is 2030. Comrie has been traded back to the Sabres after returning to Winnipeg for the 5th time. Sabrespace proclaims Rick Comrie “just hasn’t been given a fair shake, yet.”

- - -

Comrie hasn’t managed to establish he can be counted on for anything other than spotty back up duty *in a decade*. This is evidence. Time matters. I feel like people mistake this as him being some sort of unknown. “Hey, we just don’t know yet, he could be Hellebuyck”.

It’s not even an undrafted mystery box. The fact is, the timeframe matters. Time, the only thing this board cares for not at all.

He’s not an unknown. We know. We know he hasn’t been able to seize a starting role in 10 years. The longer the timeframe gets, the significantly less compelling explaining away every year, one at a time, becomes.

Is it strictly possible he bucks trend? Yes. Is it worth betting on? Not even CLOSE

- - - 

Since being drafted, 10 years ago, Comrie has started *47* NHL games. Ie the amount a starter might have at it, in a single year. By all means, bring Comrie back, if you are looking to fill the role of mediocre backup goaltender, you have a decent shot at fulfilling that standard

Are you foreclosing the possibility that he might be an adequate backup?

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Are you foreclosing the possibility that he might be an adequate backup?

Not the “mediocre means average” convo again I p*ssed everyone off with the first time, again.. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Which of Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, Krebs and Peterka should have their roles cut back from last year?

Quinn, Krebs and Peterka should have had their roles cut back THIS season but that's history now. They've had their "development year". 

I believe you should go into every season as a blank slate and players earn their roles and ice time by their play, so if next season ANY of these players doesn't deliver the goods they get cut back. It's been a very long time since any coach here has had the real ability to limit or even sit out players that under perform as we've had thin rosters with a lack of talent on them. Hopefully we will have a deep team next year and the coach can sit ANYBODY.