Thorny Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 You made me look. Stamkos had 46 points as a rookie. Stamkos had 232 at the end of his 3rd year. Essentially 3 full seasons (he missed 3 games as a rookie). 119 goals;113 assists. Stamkos was .955 PPG Jack is .806 PPG Translates to a 12 point difference per season. They live in the same subdivision. Stamkos has the better, bigger, fancier home. Lastly, Stamkos blossomed noticeably in years 2 and 3. Data, no conclusion. To add: “Best since Crosby, excluding McDavid” language put him ahead of Kane, Tavares and Stamkos, among others, in the eyes of experts. I’d say Stamkos had an organizational readiness advantage. Time will tell ... Good insight. Agree, but losing on Jack’s breakout performance sums up the Sabres season and team in a nutshell. I don’t think Stamkos is really the right comparison to Jack. Matthews and Stamkos seem like a closer comparison based on type of game. I compare Jack to Tavares. Johnny T is similar size and can either be a scorer or playmaker. His first 3 years were 54, 67 and 81 pts. With 84 goals and 118 assists for 202 pts in 243 games. (.35 g/gp and .83 pts per game). For his career, Tavares scores at .41 g/gp and .93 p/gp. Jack’s seasons so far 56, 57 (in 61 games), and 28 (33 games) with 59 goals, 82 assists for 141 pts in 175 games (.34g/gp and .81 pts per game). Lets hope Jack produces at least as well with Johnny T. Good comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Last year when I compared Jack to Tavares I caught a bunch of flack from the usual suspects. If you look at points relative to the rest of the league instead of points straight up, in JT's rookie year he was outside of the top 50 in scoring and finished 5th in Calder voting. In his 2nd year he was 28th in league scoring. In year 3, 8th in league scoring. Jack's rookie year saw him outside of the top 50 in scoring and finished 4th in Calder voting, In his 2nd year he was still outside of the top 50 in league scoring, albeit with significant time out due to injury. In year 3, currently 40th in league scoring. As shown in Georgia's post, if anything, Jack is still behind JT's curve. His game has picked up recently. He needs to show that he can sustain that long term, and through adversity. Right now, it looks more and more like JT might be Jack's ceiling. Which means he's a franchise center, but not a savior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Jack as John should be pretty terrifying, on a macro scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Jack as John should be pretty terrifying, on a macro scale. Expand on this, please. The more I read my last post, the more pessimistic I feel. JT showed very obvious development, as seen by where he stood in league scoring those first 3 years. Jack appears to be fairly stagnant relative to his competition. We assume he's got so much more than he is showing. Could we be that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I read it as PA saying that Tavares was heralded as a saviour when he was drafted. He has been very good, perhaps a top 10 player over his career. But the team has remained mediocre. So he’s terrified that if Jack is Joh, our team will follow the same pattern. Edited December 17, 2017 by Mick O’Manly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 I read it as PA saying that Tavares was heralded as a saviour when he was drafted. He has been very good, perhaps a top 10 player over his career. But the team has remained mediocre. So he’s terrified that if Jack is Joh, our team will follow the same pattern. To be honest, unless JBot can assemble and uncommonly good supporting cast, that is my expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Expand on this, please. PA, that wasn't a challenge. I was hoping to get more detail on this line of thought. I'm genuinely curious what you mean by macro vs. micro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted December 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) Outside Johnny T’s first 3 seasons, he has lead them to the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years and they are playing excellent hockey this season. Last season was a transition year. Starting last year, their GM dumped or traded some older players or top prospects that weren’t working out (Okposo, Martin, Neilsen, plus Strome this summer), clearing space for other prospects add players, such as Barzal, Pulock, Pelech, Eberle and Ladd and they are better for it. Edited December 17, 2017 by Georgia Flakt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 PA, that wasn't a challenge. I was hoping to get more detail on this line of thought. I'm genuinely curious what you mean by macro vs. micro. Team vs. individual achievement. Tavares hasn't been good enough to take the Isles anywhere. Not sure anyone could be, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted December 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Team vs. individual achievement. Tavares hasn't been good enough to take the Isles anywhere. Not sure anyone could be, actually.The problem with the NYI has been the failure of Strome to become a star and trading away Neidderrieter plus never getting or developing high quality goaltenders. They have forward depth and an excellent D group. If I’m Jbot I might try to work a deal for Lehner to the Islanders for a young(ish) D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Expand on this, please. The more I read my last post, the more pessimistic I feel. JT showed very obvious development, as seen by where he stood in league scoring those first 3 years. Jack appears to be fairly stagnant relative to his competition. We assume he's got so much more than he is showing. Could we be that wrong? Plenty of players take a "step back" during development. More often that not, actually, they'll have a point in development when they slump. Jack hasn't been stagnant at all. He took a huge step forward last year after a really good rookie year. He's taken a step back this year (through only 30 odd games), but seems to be coming on lately. I don't see a reason to be pessimistic yet. To be honest, unless JBot can assemble and uncommonly good supporting cast, that is my expectation. You don't need an uncommonly good roster to not be mediocre. You just need a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 i feel another 3 or 4 point night coming for Jack in his hometown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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