Kristian Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 How many teams have had five different owners over 15 years? "I also believe a good GM would've found a way to bring in the piece that would've pushed either team over the hump, within the constraints of various ownership". I don't think I can emphasize how I feel further. And like I said, others see things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 How many teams have had five different owners over 15 years? When I read this I chuckled. Each ownership change was seen as just what the franchise needed. Rigas & Adelphia, Billionaire Tom Golisano and now Billionaire Terry Pegula, they were all seen as white knights coming to the rescue. Rigas and Golisano each had their signature season, Pegula failed to make the playoffs in his first full season. As you said, 5 owners in 15 years and they couldn't get the job done. What is the common thread for all the failed ownerships? Regier and Ruff! Maybe if one of the owners made the change they would have had more success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 When I read this I chuckled. Each ownership change was seen as just what the franchise needed. Rigas & Adelphia, Billionaire Tom Golisano and now Billionaire Terry Pegula, they were all seen as white knights coming to the rescue. Rigas and Golisano each had their signature season, Pegula failed to make the playoffs in his first full season. As you said, 5 owners in 15 years and they couldn't get the job done. What is the common thread for all the failed ownerships? Regier and Ruff! Maybe if one of the owners made the change they would have had more success. You're going to spin it that way no matter what I do, so I'm not even going to argue with you. If you don't think that attempting to work through 5 different ownership groups, three of which were either too controlling or flat out broke, is not easy. But that doesn't help your argument so you're just going to ignore it. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 You're going to spin it that way no matter what I do, so I'm not even going to argue with you. If you don't think that attempting to work through 5 different ownership groups, three of which were either too controlling or flat out broke, is not easy. But that doesn't help your argument so you're just going to ignore it. Whatever. Just came in at the end and I might be way off base. WHO has told us ownership was too controlling in those regimes? Not being a smart ass. Was that the media perception? If so who gave them that perceptiuon? Darcy whining? I don't know. Just asking. Someone in the organization put that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 You're going to spin it that way no matter what I do, so I'm not even going to argue with you. If you don't think that attempting to work through 5 different ownership groups, three of which were either too controlling or flat out broke, is not easy. But that doesn't help your argument so you're just going to ignore it. Whatever. To say "five" is a bit misleading. Rigas was already part of the ownership group when Regier and Ruff where hired, I believe they took over 100% control midway through Status Quo's first season. I am also assuming you are considering the NHL as one of the five, which is also misleading? Essentially we are talking only three ownership groups. Rigas/Adelphia, Golisano and Pegula. The Rigas family got this team to the Cup Finals and Golisano's ownership financed the Sabres best team over the past 15 years. And we now have Pegula. Over that time Regier had 100's of millions at his disposal that he misused. The changes in ownership can't be seen as a negative to the Status Quo when each ownership brought more resources to the table. Post-Hasek, the results of the resources used, 4 playoffs in 10 seasons, is piss poor. This has been said and bares repeating, having an owner willing to throw away millions above the allowable cap to hide Regier's mistakes won't make Regier a better GM. With the resources Pegula brings to the table makes it even more important to get someone in the GM position capable of using those resources wisely and maximizing the return on investment. There is a chance Pegula won't be around, or at least be willing to burn through his personal fortune, forever. I would hate to see that day come with seeing the resources he has allotted put to good use. Just came in at the end and I might be way off base. WHO has told us ownership was too controlling in those regimes? Not being a smart ass. Was that the media perception? If so who gave them that perceptiuon? Darcy whining? I don't know. Just asking. Someone in the organization put that out there. It's a myth put out there by those that wish to deflect blame away from those responsible for the Sabres failures over the last 15 years. Tim Rigas, Larry Quinn and who knows, someday it may be Ted Black, are boogie-men that have blocked Regier's greatest from rising to the surface. It is along the line of the imaginary "financial constraints" or "hand cuffs" excuse that some fans have clung to despite the Sabres spending near the top of the Cap since the Golisano regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 When I read this I chuckled. Each ownership change was seen as just what the franchise needed. Rigas & Adelphia, Billionaire Tom Golisano and now Billionaire Terry Pegula, they were all seen as white knights coming to the rescue. Rigas and Golisano each had their signature season, Pegula failed to make the playoffs in his first full season. As you said, 5 owners in 15 years and they couldn't get the job done. What is the common thread for all the failed ownerships? Regier and Ruff! Maybe if one of the owners made the change they would have had more success. 5 owners in 15 years and we still have the same GM and coach. Wouldn't you think if those two sucked so bad that somebody would have gotten rid of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 5 owners in 15 years and we still have the same GM and coach. Wouldn't you think if those two sucked so bad that somebody would have gotten rid of them? You can thank Larry Quinn for that. Again, to say 5 owners is a bit misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 You can thank Larry Quinn for that. Again, to say 5 owners is a bit misleading. Either way, it's not one owner. Wouldn't somebody have made a change by now if they were so bad? Why does every thread turn into a DR and LR trash session? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 Either way, it's not one owner. Wouldn't somebody have made a change by now if they were so bad? Why does every thread turn into a DR and LR trash session? It's one man that has been in charge of their fate for most of the 15 years. Pegula is too starry eyed to make the move and the Regas family had other things on their mind. To answer your question, it's because a large portion of the fan base doesn't feel this franchise can move forward until they are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 There is nothing wrong with wanting to see a different GM and Coach take over the Buffalo Sabres. 15 years is more than enough time to develop that opinion. No, there isn't anything wrong with that. Just as there's nothing wrong to thinking that ownership could have been the majority of the problem, seeing as much of the fan base is happy with the individual moves being made since Pegula took over. I'm not ready to hitch my wagon to the Regier train (I still want to see some comprehensive plan come to form, rather than just liking individual moves), but I'm also not going to deny things have been different since Pegula took over. "I also believe a good GM would've found a way to bring in the piece that would've pushed either team over the hump, within the constraints of various ownership". I don't think I can emphasize how I feel further. And like I said, others see things differently. I think you can have an argument during the Golisano years that assets could have been used more wisely--ie. choosing the right players to sign long-term as opposed to the wrong ones. The team did, after all, spend close to the cap (but they absolutely couldn't do the structured contracts to attract big-name FAs or bury money in the minors). The Hasek years, however, I feel are a completely different animal. Those teams were under a hard and frugal budget and spent a fraction of what the top teams did. It's an absolute shame we couldn't build more around Hasek, but I genuinely believe that was 100% on ownership. To say "five" is a bit misleading. Rigas was already part of the ownership group when Regier and Ruff where hired, I believe they took over 100% control midway through Status Quo's first season. I am also assuming you are considering the NHL as one of the five, which is also misleading? Essentially we are talking only three ownership groups. Rigas/Adelphia, Golisano and Pegula. The Rigas family got this team to the Cup Finals and Golisano's ownership financed the Sabres best team over the past 15 years. And we now have Pegula. Over that time Regier had 100's of millions at his disposal that he misused. The changes in ownership can't be seen as a negative to the Status Quo when each ownership brought more resources to the table. Post-Hasek, the results of the resources used, 4 playoffs in 10 seasons, is piss poor. This has been said and bares repeating, having an owner willing to throw away millions above the allowable cap to hide Regier's mistakes won't make Regier a better GM. With the resources Pegula brings to the table makes it even more important to get someone in the GM position capable of using those resources wisely and maximizing the return on investment. There is a chance Pegula won't be around, or at least be willing to burn through his personal fortune, forever. I would hate to see that day come with seeing the resources he has allotted put to good use. It's a myth put out there by those that wish to deflect blame away from those responsible for the Sabres failures over the last 15 years. Tim Rigas, Larry Quinn and who knows, someday it may be Ted Black, are boogie-men that have blocked Regier's greatest from rising to the surface. It is along the line of the imaginary "financial constraints" or "hand cuffs" excuse that some fans have clung to despite the Sabres spending near the top of the Cap since the Golisano regime. There is no way in the world I'm going to believe that Pegula is going to set his money on fire for mediocrity in perpetuity. If the Sabres don't show tangible improvement by this time next year I think the winds of change will be blowing, or at least starting up. Pegula said he wanted the Cup in 3 years (completely arbitrary, but whatever, that's another argument) and if the Sabres haven't even gotten a sniff in that time frame, I believe the Ruff and Regier tandem will be finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lindy Ruff NOW Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 i really dont mind darcy, its the coach that really need to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 i really dont mind darcy, its the coach that really need to go. Why do you dislike Ruff and not mind Darcy? it's a serious question as I am trying to understand your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lindy Ruff NOW Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Why do you dislike Ruff and not mind Darcy? it's a serious question as I am trying to understand your logic. ok. ill start like this. i honestly like our players except for miller. darcy does well in the draft and makes some nice trades, then ruff takes over cause hes the coach and seems to not use them properly and effs everything up. like really? why is vanek in front of the net on the powerplay? he has by far the best shot on the team, he should be on the half firin wrist shots, not tryin to tip some crappy andrej sekera shot. just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 ok. ill start like this. i honestly like our players except for miller. darcy does well in the draft and makes some nice trades, then ruff takes over cause hes the coach and seems to not use them properly and effs everything up. like really? why is vanek in front of the net on the powerplay? he has by far the best shot on the team, he should be on the half firin wrist shots, not tryin to tip some crappy andrej sekera shot. just my opinion. Ok I can see what you're saying. I'm really not sure on either one right now honestly. I have always liked Ruff, and have been leery on Regier. I think I want to see them carry out this 3 year plan that T-Pegs put into place. Can they do what the Bills seem to be doing? both are entering year 2 of the three year plan (or is it year 3 for the Bills? I don't remember :oops: ) Either way, I'd like to see them execute TP's and TB's plan, and see if they are capable. I know, some of you don't like the "5 owners in 15 years" argument, and even discount the number, but I think it's relevant, as each ownership group has had different goals. Golisano was bottom line first, cup second. Rigas was...well, let's not go there. T-Pegs actually seems willing to put chips on the table, win or lose. We'll see how it plays out, because for at least the time being, they're here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lindy Ruff NOW Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Ok I can see what you're saying. I'm really not sure on either one right now honestly. I have always liked Ruff, and have been leery on Regier. I think I want to see them carry out this 3 year plan that T-Pegs put into place. Can they do what the Bills seem to be doing? both are entering year 2 of the three year plan (or is it year 3 for the Bills? I don't remember :oops: ) Either way, I'd like to see them execute TP's and TB's plan, and see if they are capable. I know, some of you don't like the "5 owners in 15 years" argument, and even discount the number, but I think it's relevant, as each ownership group has had different goals. Golisano was bottom line first, cup second. Rigas was...well, let's not go there. T-Pegs actually seems willing to put chips on the table, win or lose. We'll see how it plays out, because for at least the time being, they're here to stay. ok im fine with that. but what if they do nothing these next 2 years? logic says they have to fired, but who knows with this crap cloud over buffalo. my biggest fear is that lindy ruff is gonna be the coach forever no matter what. and that really upsets me. i just want a damn cup i dont care who brings it, but i just dont think lindys good enough to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 ok. ill start like this. i honestly like our players except for miller. darcy does well in the draft and makes some nice trades, then ruff takes over cause hes the coach and seems to not use them properly and effs everything up. like really? why is vanek in front of the net on the powerplay? he has by far the best shot on the team, he should be on the half firin wrist shots, not tryin to tip some crappy andrej sekera shot. just my opinion. Oh come on. Is that it? Maybe you were tired. I for one think you have at least a dozen other well thought out reasons you feel the way you do about Lindy. Let's see some more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lindy Ruff NOW Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Oh come on. Is that it? Maybe you were tired. I for one think you have at least a dozen other well thought out reasons you feel the way you do about Lindy. Let's see some more! are you serious or are you tryin to egg me on chimp? cause if your serious ill keep goin, if not then forget it jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 are you serious or are you tryin to egg me on chimp? cause if your serious ill keep goin, if not then forget it jerk. I wasn't trying to egg you on. It was my desire to move on from the very good vanek example to some more other ones, but you stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 ok. ill start like this. i honestly like our players except for miller. darcy does well in the draft and makes some nice trades, then ruff takes over cause hes the coach and seems to not use them properly and effs everything up. like really? why is vanek in front of the net on the powerplay? he has by far the best shot on the team, he should be on the half firin wrist shots, not tryin to tip some crappy andrej sekera shot. just my opinion. Well, one good reason is when he misses the net from the half, as he usually does, it clears the zone. Furthermore, as great as his hands are, he is a fairly average to poor passer. He'd scare no one on the wall and can't back anyone off. Would take about two games worth of film, then teams would attack the sh*t out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Well, one good reason is when he misses the net from the half, as he usually does, it clears the zone. Furthermore, as great as his hands are, he is a fairly average to poor passer. He'd scare no one on the wall and can't back anyone off. Would take about two games worth of film, then teams would attack the sh*t out of him. I don't know about all that, but I'm thinking he'd do well VERY where Kovy scores from, that area between the faceoff dots about 20-30 feet out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lindy Ruff NOW Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 I wasn't trying to egg you on. It was my desire to move on from the very good vanek example to some more other ones, but you stopped. alright ill try, keep in mind everyone this is just my OPINION so relax. ok ive never really liked miller that much, yes hes great on low shots but garbage on high shots, i thought biron was just as good, but the year after the lockout they start miller? miller was trash before the lockout and biron played pretty well considering how bad that team was we all know how bad they were. so biron got a raw deal i think. he should have started do to how good he was before the lockout and in relief to miller during that year. member when miller broke his thumb or something that year and biron stepped in and won like 15 games in a row? how do you not keep playing him when hes on fire? also miller was pretty bad in the playoffs that year, lots of bad goals, lindy how do you not let biron start at least one of those games? he was a proven starter. miller really trainwrecks in the playoffs in general. also what about the trades we have gotten? like raffi torres was a grinder and he could score but all of a sudden he stink in buffalo and isnt in shape? that makes no sense the system makes no sense lindy could you tell me what your system is? no cause you have no idea yourself. he doesnt give good players enough ice time. the reason brad boyes stinks is because hes on the effing 4th line! come on! he gets pretty good players in the draft and through trades because of dacrcy, then these guys have a couple good years, then they stink. or just dont seem to play as hard. ie d roy and vanek, and the players are really gettin upset about playin for him. i mean when vanek says theres somethin wrong with the coach, i believe it. for christs sake hes one of the most talented guys in the league! he sick of ruff! i bet they all are. i could keep goin for a while haha ya know a few years ago when we lost to boston and got that stupid too many men penalty (RUFF YOU IDIOT) i actually wrote down all the negative things about ruff, wish i could find that, but ill think of some more i bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Yea,but he'd need to be a piece in a team, surrounded by the right supporting cast. He can't skate like Kovy and create for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 alright ill try, keep in mind everyone this is just my OPINION so relax. ok ive never really liked miller that much, yes hes great on low shots but garbage on high shots, i thought biron was just as good, but the year after the lockout they start miller? miller was trash before the lockout and biron played pretty well considering how bad that team was we all know how bad they were. so biron got a raw deal i think. he should have started do to how good he was before the lockout and in relief to miller during that year. member when miller broke his thumb or something that year and biron stepped in and won like 15 games in a row? how do you not keep playing him when hes on fire? also miller was pretty bad in the playoffs that year, lots of bad goals, lindy how do you not let biron start at least one of those games? he was a proven starter. miller really trainwrecks in the playoffs in general. also what about the trades we have gotten? like raffi torres was a grinder and he could score but all of a sudden he stink in buffalo and isnt in shape? that makes no sense the system makes no sense lindy could you tell me what your system is? no cause you have no idea yourself. he doesnt give good players enough ice time. the reason brad boyes stinks is because hes on the effing 4th line! come on! he gets pretty good players in the draft and through trades because of dacrcy, then these guys have a couple good years, then they stink. or just dont seem to play as hard. ie d roy and vanek, and the players are really gettin upset about playin for him. i mean when vanek says theres somethin wrong with the coach, i believe it. for christs sake hes one of the most talented guys in the league! he sick of ruff! i bet they all are. i could keep goin for a while haha ya know a few years ago when we lost to boston and got that stupid too many men penalty (RUFF YOU IDIOT) i actually wrote down all the negative things about ruff, wish i could find that, but ill think of some more i bet. wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lindy Ruff NOW Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 wow nice huh? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Well, one good reason is when he misses the net from the half, as he usually does, it clears the zone. Furthermore, as great as his hands are, he is a fairly average to poor passer. He'd scare no one on the wall and can't back anyone off. Would take about two games worth of film, then teams would attack the sh*t out of him. That's fine, but why do we talk about someone being attacked and targeted by the opposition as a bad thing? Give them something to worry about, it'll open up space for the other guys on the PP. Surely, Vanek is not expected to be the only threat on the #1 PP unit? As things are now, they're more than happy crosschecking Vanek to smithereens, and blocking average point shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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