nfreeman Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Why not call Pommer a "60-100 point guy?" Again, he's hit 70 points once in a 6-year career. His productivity is in decline and he may or may not hit 50 points this year. I've already gone through in detail why his 4 points in 6 playoff games last year overstates his production in that series (essentially he had 1 point in the games where the series was decided and was only marginally less terrible than TC and Roy), but you can ignore it if you like. I say again: would anyone care to wager (with proceeds going to charity) that the Sabres will not be able to unload him without taking back a terrible contract in return? Finally, I will state again that I don't think he's a bad player. I actually think he's a pretty decent 2-way player and would be very happy with him at $2.5MM on the Sabres' 3rd line. But if the Sabres could unload him for a draft pick, I would do it in a heartbeat because I'd rather have the cap space. And I think the scenario where he is traded in a package for a "stud center" is from another planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hecht: is he still worth a roster spot? hecht yeah well nobody else said it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumb_dumb88 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Why not call Pommer a "60-100 point guy?" Again, he's hit 70 points once in a 6-year career. His productivity is in decline and he may or may not hit 50 points this year. I've already gone through in detail why his 4 points in 6 playoff games last year overstates his production in that series (essentially he had 1 point in the games where the series was decided and was only marginally less terrible than TC and Roy), but you can ignore it if you like. I say again: would anyone care to wager (with proceeds going to charity) that the Sabres will not be able to unload him without taking back a terrible contract in return? Finally, I will state again that I don't think he's a bad player. I actually think he's a pretty decent 2-way player and would be very happy with him at $2.5MM on the Sabres' 3rd line. But if the Sabres could unload him for a draft pick, I would do it in a heartbeat because I'd rather have the cap space. And I think the scenario where he is traded in a package for a "stud center" is from another planet. Well then, we'll just have to agree to disagree amiably and stand pat. sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Well then, we'll just have to agree to disagree amiably and stand pat. sound good? Yes sir, unless something happens that clearly gives either of us the right to an "I told you so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Why not call Pommer a "60-100 point guy?" Again, he's hit 70 points once in a 6-year career. His productivity is in decline and he may or may not hit 50 points this year. Because other than this season when he was injured his average number of points is 69 for those 4 seasons. You dont count his rookie campaign because it was a rookie campaign so saying he is declining is misleading considering we are bickering over a great season and then 3 typical pommers season all within 6pts of a drop. Again if you want to count this year when he was injured than I can see why you say DROP but please do not attempt to rebuke this argument by saying why dont we call Pommers a 60-100 point guy because thats an attempt to use exaggeration to prove a false point. Pommers is and has been truly a 65pt a year guy when healthy. 65pts falls comfortably btw 60-70 so we are now in agreement that pommers is a 65pt guy and other than this season been quite good for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagjr387 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hecht, niedermayer, and grier may not be your favorite players but that'll be the line to shut down the number one line of the opposition in the playoffs. they are our best penalty killers also. moving these players to let luke adam or paul byron play would be a stupid move. they will be BIG players in the playoffs and it wont show up on the score sheet. players like bolland, kopecky, madden, and ladd were just as important as toews, kane, and hossa in winning the cup last year. if you dont have solid two way fowards, your team will look like tampa bay from two or three years ago. with a ton of money invested in Richards, lacavalier, and st. louis, and no role players, your team will be sitting at the bottom of the standings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hecht, niedermayer, and grier may not be your favorite players but that'll be the line to shut down the number one line of the opposition in the playoffs. they are our best penalty killers also. moving these players to let luke adam or paul byron play would be a stupid move. they will be BIG players in the playoffs and it wont show up on the score sheet. players like bolland, kopecky, madden, and ladd were just as important as toews, kane, and hossa in winning the cup last year. if you dont have solid two way fowards, your team will look like tampa bay from two or three years ago. with a ton of money invested in Richards, lacavalier, and st. louis, and no role players, your team will be sitting at the bottom of the standings I agree with this. It's also why I wouldn't be surprised to see ALL of them back with the Sabres next year. They have their role and they do it night-in, night-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yes sir, unless something happens that clearly gives either of us the right to an "I told you so." Do you dislike Pominville's play, (Because I think he's had a terrific month and has salvaged what was looking like a foggy concussed seaason) or is it that you think he's overpaid by 1 million dollars or some other number per year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumb_dumb88 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yes sir, unless something happens that clearly gives either of us the right to an "I told you so." :thumbsup: I always expect an I told you so. Heck, mrs. dumb dumb (hope this gets buried quick :blush: ) was all over me when I was telling her a few years back that Buffalo was going to resign Campbell for under 5 million. So I don't take my opinion to heart mind you. I try to figure out what the worth of a player is over the course of their career and as she will attest to, I am more often wrong then right :oops: . But then again, it's fun to have the discussions and I'm glad I finally decided to sign up to the site to have them with you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Do you dislike Pominville's play, (Because I think he's had a terrific month and has salvaged what was looking like a foggy concussed seaason) or is it that you think he's overpaid by 1 million dollars or some other number per year? Very fair question. To me, it's much more the money and his slot on the team than his play. I think he's a nice 2-way player who ideally (ie when you have a top 3-5 NHL offense) is your #6-#8 forward making $2.5MM or so per year. I don't think he can create offense so much as complement it reasonably well. I think he's reached his ceiling and that we won't see much more than 20-23 goals and 55-60 points per year from him again. And the salary is a huge item to me -- I just think the Sabres could shed that burden, plug in a youngster, and use the $5MM towards a real difference-maker (which generally cost about $7.5MM or so). Most of all, I just can't forgive the disappearing act in the playoffs last year. That was his time to step up and he was nowhere to be found, just like Roy and TC (although at least TC had an injury excuse). I'd love for Pommer to take the next step this spring and I'll be happy to eat my words if he does, but I don't think he has enough game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 :thumbsup: I always expect an I told you so. Heck, mrs. dumb dumb (hope this gets buried quick :blush: ) was all over me when I was telling her a few years back that Buffalo was going to resign Campbell for under 5 million. So I don't take my opinion to heart mind you. I try to figure out what the worth of a player is over the course of their career and as she will attest to, I am more often wrong then right :oops: . But then again, it's fun to have the discussions and I'm glad I finally decided to sign up to the site to have them with you guys. I appreciate your calmness and good humor in the discussion and I will certainly say that Ms. nfreeman (who kept her last name anyway) can fire off an "I told you so" with the best of them. I'm also glad you are posting -- the more grownups here, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Very fair question. To me, it's much more the money and his slot on the team than his play. I think he's a nice 2-way player who ideally (ie when you have a top 3-5 NHL offense) is your #6-#8 forward making $2.5MM or so per year. I don't think he can create offense so much as complement it reasonably well. I think he's reached his ceiling and that we won't see much more than 20-23 goals and 55-60 points per year from him again. And the salary is a huge item to me -- I just think the Sabres could shed that burden, plug in a youngster, and use the $5MM towards a real difference-maker (which generally cost about $7.5MM or so). Most of all, I just can't forgive the disappearing act in the playoffs last year. That was his time to step up and he was nowhere to be found, just like Roy and TC (although at least TC had an injury excuse). I'd love for Pommer to take the next step this spring and I'll be happy to eat my words if he does, but I don't think he has enough game. I agree with your analysis completely. In my vision of a perfect Sabres, Pommer is a 3rd line RW with checking and secondary scoring responsibilities. But that salary is way out of whack for a 3rd line RW. Like you, I would move him in a heartbeat to make room for a 1st line center salary. The problem is, IMO the rest of the league probably feels the same way about him and won't be terribly interested in taking him off our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 Very fair question. To me, it's much more the money and his slot on the team than his play. I think he's a nice 2-way player who ideally (ie when you have a top 3-5 NHL offense) is your #6-#8 forward making $2.5MM or so per year. I don't think he can create offense so much as complement it reasonably well. I think he's reached his ceiling and that we won't see much more than 20-23 goals and 55-60 points per year from him again. And the salary is a huge item to me -- I just think the Sabres could shed that burden, plug in a youngster, and use the $5MM towards a real difference-maker (which generally cost about $7.5MM or so). Most of all, I just can't forgive the disappearing act in the playoffs last year. That was his time to step up and he was nowhere to be found, just like Roy and TC (although at least TC had an injury excuse). I'd love for Pommer to take the next step this spring and I'll be happy to eat my words if he does, but I don't think he has enough game. Good contextual reply. I still like Pominville, always have. Bumper sticker is high by any estimation, but he's always been more than serviceable IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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