Randall Flagg

Okay, Dahlin and Risto actually played more together than I thought, and the results weren't as bad as I thought. 220 minutes, 9 goals for, 10 against, positive expected goal share, negative shot share by a couple percentage points. I must just be remembering one particularly ugly game or something.

I'm remembering Dahlin and Risto being spectacularly bad in their brief time together.

Quibble - scoring half of your goals on the power play isn't evidence of laziness. It's a lot easier to score on the power play, and that could just as easily be due to skill. In 2006-07, Crosby had more than half of his production on the power play. That said, he has been accused of laziness. But fixing that wouldn't guarantee fixing that percentage, because of how deadly his shot is on the PP, so he'll always have a mammoth number of PP goals that are hard for anyone to keep up with at ES

Chabot scored at a 64 point pace (55 in 70) for his 21-22 year old season as a defensemen. He's also not terrible defensively like other young defensemen (though don't watch the film from our 9-2 beatdown of Ottawa if you want to see the good side of his defensive play). Had he finished the season at that scoring pace, he'd have been top 5 in points from defensemen. He's gonna be outstanding, and that contract will be completely reasonable. And yeah, Dahlin is gonna be effin expensive

That is some bold stuff. I like it, but the wrong winger is back with Jack! I'm sure it's not super representative of what we'll see since it's only phase 2, whatever that means

I recall McDavid missing about a month with a busted hand. Maybe 5 weeks. We still have 2 weeks before the first game even happens. If Botterill thought like that he needs to gooooooo That said, if he was inclined to wait a couple weeks into the start of the season anyway to get teams to be more desperate a la Duchene trade, this probably makes that more likely

I wanted us to throw a lower level offer sheet at Copp

My ranking would be as follows Eichel Skinner Reinhart/Dahlin Johansson (speculation)/Montour Risto Rodrigues (Wouldn't be surprised if others had him lower) McCabe Vesey Larsson The rest

No, Casey went back to college his first year and never even touched NHL games. Until April, at least.

From this thread: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2019-20-nhl-lines-lineup-notes-thread-as-of-sept-17th-19-9-00am.2677901/ Center spines for other teams are projected (by their fans) to be as follows. Boston Bruins: Patrice Bergeron - David Krejci - Charlie Coyle - Sean Kuraly Buffalo Sabres: Jack Eichel - Casey Mittelstadt - Evan Rodrigues - Johan Larsson Carolina Hurricanes: Sebastian Aho - Jordan Staal - Erik Haula - Lucas Wallmark Columbus Blue Jackets: Pierre-Luc Dubois - Boone Jenner - Alexander Wennberg - Riley Nash Detroit Red Wings: Dylan Larkin - Frans Nielsen - Valtteri Filppula - Luke Glendening Florida Panthers: Aleksander Barkov - Vincent Trocheck - Henrik Borgstrom - Noel Acciari Montreal Canadiens: Max Domi - Philip Danault - Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Nick Cousins New Jersey Devils: Nico Hischier - Jack Hughes - Travis Zajac - Pavel Zacha New York Islanders: Matthew Barzal - Brock Nelson - Derick Brassard - Casey Cizikas New York Rangers: Mika Zibanejad - Filip Chytil - Ryan Strome - Brett Howden Ottawa Senators: Colin White - JG Pageau - Chris Tierney - Artem Anisimov Philadelphia Flyers: Sean Couturier - Kevin Hayes - Nolan Patrick - Scott Laughton Pittsburgh Penguins: Sidney Crosby - Evgeni Malkin - Nick Bjugstad - Teddy Blueger Tampa Bay Lightning: Brayden Point - Steven Stamkos - Anthony Cirelli - Cedric Pacquette Toronto Maple Leafs: John Tavares - Auston Matthews - Alex Kerfoot - Jason Spezza Washington Capitals: Nicklas Backstrom - Evgeny Kuznetsov - Lars Eller - Chandler Stephenson Anaheim Ducks: Ryan Getzlaf - Sam Steel - Adam Henrique - Carter Rowney Arizona Coyotes: Derek Stepan - Nick Schmaltz - Carl Soderberg - Brad Richardson Calgary Flames: Sean Monahan - Mikael Backlund - Mark Jankowski - Derek Ryan Chicago Blackhawks: Jonathan Toews - Dylan Strome - David Kampf - Zack Smith Colorado Avalanche: Nathan MacKinnon - Nazem Kadri - Tyson Jost - Pierre-Edouard Bellemare Dallas Stars: Tyler Seguin - Roope Hintz - Radek Faksa - Ty Dellandria (I think Pavelski will play some C) Edmonton Oilers: Connor McDavid - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Riley Sheahan - Sam Gagner LA Kings: Anze Kopitar - Jeff Carter - Adrian Kempe - Michael Amadio Minnesota Wild: Eric Staal - Mikko Koivu - Joel Eriksson-Ek - Luke Kunin Nashville Predators: Ryan Johansen - Matt Duchene - Kyle Turris - Nick Bonino San Jose Sharks: Logan Couture - Tomas Hertl - Joe Thornton - Barclay Goodrow St. Louis Blues: Brayden Schenn - Ryan O'Reilly - Tyler Bozak - Oskar Sundqvist Vancouver Canucks: Elias Pettersson - Bo Horvat - Brandon Sutter - Jay Beagle Vegas Golden Knights: William Karlsson - Paul Stastny - Cody Eakin - Tomas Nosek Winnipeg Jets: Mark Scheifele - Andrew Copp - Bryan Little - Adam Lowry In a vacuum for this coming season, the only 2/3/4C's I'd definitely want on our roster less than what we have (I stress, just for 2019-20 in a vacuum) are those for the Rangers and Islanders. Zona and Anaheim may be close, but I'd put my bets on Henrique and Soderberg being better NHLers this year than any of our three. Dallas would be there but Hintz came on FAST at the end of last season, and was outstanding in the playoffs, and Faksa is much more valuable in a 3C role than a 2C one. I just don't like how we match up at a critical position for the 40 minutes per game Jack isn't out there, and even then I think Jack is only better than some/half of the 1Cs, not most

Okay, you guys win this round thanks for nothing pi

I hear that he's erratic a lot, but I don't really know what it means. Is he more erratic than what I saw from Carson Wentz in two games, especially Monday night, this year? Wentz is nearly MVP caliber so far in his career. Never heard that word with him, but my oh my were a majority of his throws awful three nights ago. What about Baker two nights ago? Nobody has ever called him erratic. Aside from a couple of dimes to OBJ, there was some ugly football from him. I don't judge them on it - they look like all good NFL QBs sometimes, even often, look. I agree that Josh has merely taken a step to intriguing, rather than being an answer, or definitely a good quarterback. But a lot of people put on different glasses when evaluating his play from the ones they wear for any other QB any given Sunday. I saw a remarkably consistent QB against two mediocre to bad defenses, and the only difference in result for the drives (we moved on both all day) were that some had wacky bounces against the Jets that the rest of the ones against the Jets, and the ones against the Giants, didn't have. Josh had worse throws than the one he made to Cole for Mosely's pick against the Giants actually get caught by his receivers. He's been consistent, and consistently accurate, and consistently good in decision-making, against these two bad teams - at least as much so as any QB in the real world generally is. But yes, let's hope he can continue to show promising signs as the schedule inevitably progresses.

I was an idiot when I counted Edmonton's, because I used Draisaitl and RNH, when Drai ran shotgun to McDavid most of the year. Replace it with RNH and whoever their 3C was (Khaira? crickets) they would fall off a cliff. Leon gave them a literal 100 point boost just because I had a brain fart when I made that chart in April But anyway, how those other teams are built and what their own problems were are not relevant to the fact that every conceivable metric tells us our defense was average at allowing shots and allowing scoring chances (matching what I saw all season long, nothing terrible or spectacular on a team level from the defense) while our forward depth, particularly driven by two lines that got insanely favorable matchups (Mitts had the highest, or top 3, percentage of offensive zone starts of any NHL player with 500 minutes) drove our standings collapse and inability to keep up with teams 5v5, by simply being unable to create offense at any meaningful level for the entirety of the season, ESPECIALLY in the most critical parts.

Yes, it was. We are measurably worst in the league at getting production from our middle six centers. This led to their wingers, guys who have been capable in that position in better situations like Sheary or even Kyle, putting up sub-par seasons themselves. But it was the center position there explicitly that was worse than any other team was putting out. While we were winning, and into the losing after that, the centers led that middle six into a stretch of 100 combined games with just 1 combined goal from their lines. So when Jack got hurt and cooled off, we were sunk, and it never got better because those positions were not capable of doing better - they were consistently dreadful all year long. It's not the only reason we were bad, certainly, but it was a major, major driving factor, and there isn't one that I'd put above it in importance (goaltending is right there too, and that is the same this year too). I was just as mad about Sobotka over ERod as anyone else, but the production from those lines didn't meaningfully shift when they eventually switched as 3C, and I take that switch into account when I talk about our middle six centers

Yeah having a nice shot, good skating, and playing with Mark, and an assist fiend like Wheeler, is just an easy way to get lofted up to crazy heights I don't think he'd hit elsewhere. He's still good but I think he's much closer to the RFAs like Konecny than Rantanen/Marner

Update to the fun Metlife stat: This season, Allen has as many wins in Metlife Stadium as Eli and Darnold do combined since the start of LAST season ie the Jets and Giants SUK

IMO he's fairly significantly overrated, along with Werenski. Wouldn't do Risto and Casey for him

But the bold is exactly what drives people to put Casey in the trade proposals. The only time a bad return is mentioned with respect to a proposal like this, it's someone saying that they THINK that's all they'd get, not that they actively want to do that. The second bold is a dishonest reading of pretty much all the discussion in here about fixing our biggest hole, and fits in line with a lot of rather obnoxious posts in the GDT and elsewhere that straw-man the hell out of people having genuine, serious, measured discussions about a bad hockey team.

Stared at this post for 10 seconds racking my brain trying to figure out who Dylan is

And they each played their first post-draft season outside the NHL, so their seasons line up with respect to their development too, so Casey doesn't even have the excuse of fewer seasons of prep in lower leagues.

But in your previous post you seemed to object to the idea that we sucked last year because of our center spine. But it was absolutely the number one factor driving the fact that we were incapable of playing sustainably good hockey. I completely agree that our defense may well be good, and I don't even think it was all that bad last year. But something that literally tanked our season last year, from first place in late November to the worst record in the league the rest of the way (55 games-worth) outside of that Ottawa roster, is exactly, the, same, right now. So yeah we're gonna talk about that

I don't want to get sucked into this discussion again, but the presence of good pieces on a bad team doesn't mean the badness of that team was the fault of the good pieces and therefore trading those pieces is just fine. That's horrifying logic for a team that a.) used the relevant player like Jay Beagle, breaking defensive zone start records with the second best offensive player on the team despite desperately needing offense, and doing so by putting some of the worst players in the league at his side while doing that b.) Decided that Pouliot, Moulson, Nolan, Josefson, and Griffith were all good bottom six pieces to use...together...at the same time c.) Started the season with Matt Tennyson in the NHL, and played significant chunks of the year with Antipin/Beaulieu/Gorges/Falk all playing defense together at the same time d.) was given the worst season-long goaltending performance I've ever seen this team have We weren't bad because of our center spine in 17-18, it was the only part of the team worth keeping together going forward. When we fell apart last year, it was DIRECTLY because we had some of the worst depth scoring in the league (in ways I've outlined with copious amounts of detail many times here), which was DIRECTLY driven by the weakest middle six center group in the league by a long shot having to constantly go up against the elite 2Cs of the eastern conference, night after night after night. "Yeah well we sucked with [good player]" is exactly the type of analysis that lacks the nuance to either remotely understand what is wrong with any given hockey team, or prevent you from making glaring mistakes with your roster. It does nothing but hand-wave away things that deserve to be heavily criticized

Botterill critics are aware that it's not trivial to bring in a 2C. They aren't mad because in a vacuum he was unable to do it, they're mad because our center spine was a huge reason we sucked last year, is poised to be a similar problem this year, was his fault in the first place, and it was easy to see that coming at the time he was making decisions that led us to this point

Ah, I didn't realize you were sticking to the rigid definition of prospect there, I agree with you in that sense. I thought you were comparing their relevant seasons and declaring Cozens better than Casey was. The original point I wanted to make was that people were adding perhaps our best young forward (say, age 22 or under) to trades to try and come up with bigger returns that can help us more.

I'll stick with my "perhaps" rather than declaring Cozens better with certainty.