LTS

They have elevated the team higher than they'd be now without them. The depths they sank to shouldn't be underestimated. They needed a lot to build them up. If the players acquired improve the team next year then it's still successful even if it doesn't meet your timeline, or mine, or anyone's.

You have a little bit of control on when contracts hit, sure. It's just not the same level of control. At the same time, no one wins without having a few veterans in the lineup who can help guide the youth. So at some point you need to move something to get them unless you want your veteran leaders on the 4th line. I agree players are evaluated all the time as well. It's also sometimes hard to evaluate some players when they are in a bad environment. As for removing Murray. I don't think moving Murray boiled down to his performance as a talent evaluator which is what we are discussing here. His ability to run an organization certainly wasn't up to snuff and that's why he was let go. I think we can all pretty much say with little doubt that the players wanted Murray and Bylsma gone and Pegula had little choice but to comply. Especially if a major part of that voice is your "generational" talent.

<Obligatory Kane/Eichel Complaint> I covered it for everyone.

So, we have Skype for Business at work. We also have a dial-in conference line. (Skype has its own dial-in line as well). So what I enjoy is that we use Skype and the non-Skype dial-in and so for meetings we have to listen to beeps interrupt the call and people asking who's on... whereas if we'd just use Skype it shows the name of everyone in the meeting. And as I said.. they set up Skype conference and the dial-in but still ask who is connecting. In a 30 minute meeting this process of identifying who is on the call takes 5-10 minutes. Hooray for us.

Coyotes goalie name: Wedgewood. Is he woody or wedgie in the locker room? :)

Why can't you do that? And again, you keep talking about games played. A crappy 4th line player could play 100 games and it wouldn't help the franchise. I would focus more on top 6 and top 4 d and how likely they end up in those slots. If you draft 10 players and combined they have a 10% chance of making it. Then if 20% of them make it how would that not be above average? In the example above one would anticipate that Nylander should make top 6, he's the best odds to do so. The rest are all long shots, but if they make it then shouldn't that be considered a success? One other thing you are not taking into consideration is that having a team of players all drafted from 2-3 years means you have contract negotiations that are all around the same time. As such, when they call come due you end up having to move assets because you likely can't take on ALL that new salary at once. Remove Kane and O'Reilly and add another 3-4 20-23 year olds on this team and you have a contract nightmare, especially if they all perform. Your only option, besides praying for an increased salary cap is to then trade away those assets. So, you end up not having some of them anyway. At this point it's all speculation. Therefore it is wrong to and unsupportable at this time to cast current judgment on something that has not played out yet.

Hooray! A hockey game! If these two games were next week then they'd overlap even more. So at least the scheduling gods gave you some extra time to watch both.

The Russian Sweaters look the same except the letters are in a different order.

Taking Sam and Jack out of the equation for now and using the Cullen chart. Guide: Player Name (draft pick) - % to play 100 / % to be top 6F, top 4D, or 1G / 4th line or fringe player Lemieux (31) - 29% / 11% / 85% Cornel (44) - 41% / 13% / 73% Karabacek (49) - 34% / 11% / 82% Martin (74) - 27% / 8% / 86% Nylander (8) - 71% / 29% / 46% Guhle (51) 33% / 10% / 82% Borgen (92) 24% / 5% / 90% Asplund (33) 29% / 11% / 85% Pu (69) 32% / 8% / 87% Fitzgerald (86) 25% / 7% / 90% Glotov (190) 9% / 2% / 97% Based on those picks there is an average 32% chance that his picks play 100 games, 10% chance they are top 6/top 4, and 82% that are fringe. There are 11 picks so each player represents a chance at being above or below the average. So, if 4 players make 100 games it's above average for those picks. If 2 players make top 6 or top 4 it's above average and if 10 players are fringe he's above average. There are actually quite a few more picks as we know. Let's see how they pan out over their careers and check back on his success (above or below). I'm not worried just about games played. By rights those players shouldn't even be a top 6 forward or top 4 d. If Guhle and Nylander make it into that category then by definition of the draft chart he's above average in the league. BTW: If I am not thinking of this correctly I am happy to hear so.

Maybe I am missing something... The article you link judges the draft position picked to gauge the CAREER value of a player. Then you turn around and use that to assess players who haven't finished their CAREER? How does that work? Are you saying because Guhle, Pu, Asplund, and Nylander are barely scratching the start of their careers that Murray is a failure because those players have only played 7 games? Until those players bust from the game and retire you can't judge what they've accomplished... As for Lemieux... you assume wasted. That trade brought Kane and Bogosian. So a few things there. 1. Kane has been valuable to the team. 2. If Kane is flipped (albeit by another GM) for assets that benefit the Sabres (say a top 4 D) then that move was essentially moving Lemieux (and others) and ending up with a top 4 D later. Again, how do you judge the final value? Finally, judging any single move in isolation if it is indeed a failed move would make everyone a failure. It's an aggregate body of work that can't be fully judged at this point.

So if the picks he made as GM of the Sabres are panning out and on the roster in the next 3-4 years do we still call him a failure because he didn't turn the abhorrent team around in a short time frame? There is more to Murray than Ottawa and that would be.... This... he also did the same in Anaheim and it was noted as being largely his ability to sniff out that talent. You can continue to deny his ability or you can give him the credit he deserves while still acknowledging that he might have failed in Buffalo. Again, a GM's contribution is not usually seen in the immediate results. Just like a startup moves onto a more conditioned leader once they are out of start up mode. There are management styles for every level of growth and success. How many times do you see one GM put together the prospects of a team but can't get over that last hump and they bring in another person who brings it home. Who did most of the work? The new guy? Not quite.

0 for 2 on the road trip so far. The real test of Vegas is being away from home. They were riding the high of being the new team in the league and being a bunch of castoffs. The shooting in Vegas gave them an even deeper purpose to play, especially in front of the home crowd. However, as the season moves into the long haul section those emotional factors wear out and they are left relying upon their talent. I don't think it will last either. If they come back from this road trip playing under .500 hockey they will be questioning just how good they really are, even if they are on their 6th goaltender by then. (Although I think Fleury and Subban may be close to returning).

There are a few potential reasons for this. The first is that he was the GM here and not an AGM so he had other responsibilities to deal with... Like a head coach who was losing the locker room. Like an owner who may have had input on what his moves were and how fast he had to turn things around. And in some cases you lose some... I mean if you look at that lineup those are late round picks on the roster. There were some early round picks as well that never panned out. It happens. The fact is though. He might not have done his best work here but to flat out say he's not a talent evaluator when he accomplished those kinds of things at every stop prior to here is just incorrect. He was a solid part of what developed Anaheim prior to being in Ottawa. The information is out there.

Well, let's see. Players on the current Ottawa Roster drafted while Murray was AGM: Erik Karlsson - 2008 (15th overall - plenty of D drafted ahead of him including Bogosian and Myers) Zach Smith - 2008 - (79th overall) Mike Hoffman - 2009 - (130th overall) Mark Stone - 2010 (178th overall) J.G. Pageau - 2011 (96th overall) Chris Wideman - 2009 (100th overall) Ryan Dzingel - 2011 (204th overall) Cody Ceci - 2012 (15th overall) Fredrik Claesson - 2011 (126th overall) Ben Harpur - 2013 (108th overall) Max McCormick - 2011 (171st overall) That's 11 players drafted while Murray was in charge of talent evaluation. There are 2 1st rounders in there and the rest are from deep in the draft. Last year's Ottawa team which performed quite well were led in scoring by: Karlsson (1), Hoffman(2), Stone(4), Pageau (6), Smith (7), Dzingel (8) Those Senators have Ottawa the 6th overall team in the league right now and they finished 12th overall last year. The team may have sucked while he was the AGM but I would think that team and its current performance based on where those players came from in the draft says a lot about his talent evaluation.

I want the team to perform better than they are. The defense is just not good enough and that's the biggest problem right now. As for everything else... I've watched people on here pine for Todd McLellan, lament losing out on McDavid, talk about how playing Kings hockey was stupid, and more. Right now McLellan is in charge of a team that is below us in the standings and by accounts of people on here should be far above the Sabres. Right now the Kings, with almost the same roster as last year, are at the top of the league (they only changed a coach and GM) Right now Jack Eichel has 3 less points than Matthews and 1 more than McDavid and Crosby, the saviours of Canada hockey. It's a highly frustrated fan base that just wants something to change even if it's not necessarily an improvement. I'm reading comparison to football teams shedding players without accounting for what is guaranteed money in the NFL and the NHL and how they are different. There are comments on how all but 2-3 players on this team need to go. A move which would certainly bring about another 10 years of mediocre or worse hockey. I think there is quite a bit of player evaluation going on right now. It's not just about how a player is on the ice but whether or not that player is going to listen to the coaching staff and work to improve their game. I can hypothesize on reasons why certain players are on the ice but most don't want to hear any potential reason other than what they want to believe. So, for me, I'm just backing off all of it. I'll watch the games and chime in here or there but it's tiring battling on here when people have gotten to the point where they want to question the validity of the entire franchise's history.

Ryan Miller once did it during a game and almost nailed Jason Pominville with the blade as it flew back at hit the glass. As I recall the Sabres turned the game around from that point and won. I can't remember much more on the details as it was quite awhile ago.

Last night was awesome enough to have a fire outside and to celebrate me being outside at the fire and not in my house with 9 screaming 10 year old girls I enjoyed a Young Lion IPA. Young Lion is a new brewery in Canandaigua. They are Rochester's largest (next to Genny of course). They are turning out some pretty good stuff and canning the Pilsner and IPA (so far that I've seen). Of course right now I am enjoying Space Kitty from Rohrbach. $8.99 for a 4 pack of 16 oz cans.. helluva deal for a really good DIPA.

I feel like resurrecting a good thread. Let's talk about a day when we come together and enjoy hockey. I will be getting a ticket to this game no matter what. It will happen and I will be there.

It's not about you, or me, or any other fan. You are irrelevant. It is about getting the media to ask questions of the players in the locker room. Eichel is a PPG player on a team that isn't performing. As for Miller, goaltender have rituals, it's not that unusual. My last comment is to address you pulling in that garbage Lassie comment. It's not worth the finger exercise to respond to you any more. Your retorts are denigrating and show a complete lack of respect. Good day sir. I can't afford to break my sticks in rec hockey. :)

Exactly. It was timed to generate discussion.

Everything is old. Get off my lawn. Don't think Jack didn't do that on purpose. He could have broken that stick anywhere but he knows exactly where the mid-point of that camera covers. That was perfectly timed. He should be pissed. Had to miss the last part of the game while driving to my son's game.

Fun fact... or not. Joe Thornton Career Points: 1,398 Combined Sabres Roster Points (as a Sabre only): 1,371 Another fun fact. Of the active roster and only Buffalo points Eichel trails Pominville for second. Pominville: 467 Eichel: 124 Moulson: 123 ROR: 122 Risto: 114 Reinhart: 93 Kane: 89 Girgensons: 89 Again, those are points in a Sabres uniform. Interesting. Anyway.. game on.

Thanks! It's what I look forward to every weekend (not the winning, just watching him play). Let's hope the streak continues. I want people on here to feel some joy until at least Sunday.

Do we trust a writer who actually proposes this as one of the fixes? "Jaroslav Halak is a free agent this summer and he seems like the ideal veteran to help out at this point. Halak could give you 35 games and steal a few victories by himself along the way. Lehner is still The Guy, but there’s a failsafe if things go pear-shaped." The Sabres have better odds of winning the Stanley Cup I would think.

The Sharks end their long road trip with a visit to the Buffalo Sabres' Key Bank Center. It's a 1pm matinee. Perfect for the crotchety old geezers who want to hit up the early bird special at Cracker Barrel on their way home after the game. It's Kids Day, which hopefully means the arena will be filled with people who still enjoy hockey for what it is... a game. The kids may be disappointed afterwards but hey kid, life is full if disappointment. Now, onto the hockey game. Joe Thornton has a chance to move in to 20th on the all-time scoring list. The Sabres have a chance to score. Will the Sabres look different after a few days off to work on their composure? Will they demonstrate the mental toughness to battle through adversity and hard times or will the crumble away under the pressure of the fans? Will SabreTooth ever stay out for the night? These answers and more at 1pm today. Tune in and see. EDITORS NOTE: I'd be at this game today if my son did not have a hockey game just early enough so that we couldn't get back to Rochester in time.