PASabreFan
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Posts posted by PASabreFan
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Today's Buffalo News attempted to atone for the sin of the article in Sunday's News by implying that Croce's remarks were inappropriate. What about the decision to publish those remarks?
Is there anything to be said for the media giving a prominent businessman some rope and letting him hang himself? Who looks worse, the News or Croce?
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No, but if you want some different perspectives, read the thread(s) on this subject in the Blackhawks forum on HFBOards. I barely touched it and it was kind of interesting. Some Hawks fans are actually calling for Kane to be traded to a team as an attraction to put fans in the seats. There are a few other twists in and turns on that forum that we haven't considered from our perspective. So if you want a fresh perspective, check that out.
That's a great sales job. I really want to see what else they have to say.
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Wow. Finally some sanity. Good post. Too many people feigning moral outrage at one or two posters suggestions that sometimes in life things are not cut and dry or black and white. Nobody deserves to be raped. No matter their personality or constitution. And I would hope nobody deserves to be convicted of a rape that wasn't committed. Maybe one was ? Maybe one wasn't. Hopefully the authorities get it all figured out. Until then as you said, we need cooler heads and patience.
I've had my issues with nobody, namely the empty, soul-less black hole of an avatar, but, wow, what a terrible fate you have in mind for him.
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Triple nipple ripple.
What's wrong with you? Did they ever find out?
Your "questions" are mere straight-men for your awaiting sophomoric debate tactics to assert your unwavering opinion where confirmation bias is king.
You just blew my mind.
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Because it's a freakin' internet forum. That's reason enough.
I hope d4rk/l1ght's existential crisis ends soon. He's become that annoying little four-year-old who won't let his mommy talk to her friend.
I find it increasingly ironic that a number of people here are willing to speculate about the motivations of a possible rape victim, yet I'm the one being criticized for speculating about the motives of the posters here doing the speculating.
Y'all can't have it both ways. If you feel a duty to speculate about rape, then I feel a duty to speculate about you. It's only fair.
Why are you speculating? Did the ice cream truck driver show you his third nipple?
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Eeesh. Gone for a weekend and this thread is filled with some good information and a lot of personal attacks.
I guess it's okay to make personal attacks.. in a thread that discusses a form of personal attack right?
A few quick things...
A scenario will present itself and that scenario will come with a set of potential outcomes. Some will be more probable than the others. Not everyone will be able to think of the same possible outcomes nor will they likely think of the same probably outcomes. To presume that everyone operates from the same form of decision making and information processing capabilities is ignorant and irresponsible. Proof? If we all did then we'd all think like Patrick Kane.. (do you think like Patrick Kane?)
There needs to be the ability to allow for possibilities in what could have transpired without it being a referendum on the person in question. Anecdotal stories have merit because they prove that an outcome is possible, even if it is not probable.
It's not inconceivable to me that in the realm of human behavior that a woman could decide that she wants to try and lure Patrick Kane into having sex with her with the intention of then filing a rape charge with the hopes of the charge resulting in some kind of million dollar settlement. If I were listing my top X of possible scenarios this probably doesn't make it into the list, but the news is rife with discussions on the despicable things humans will do.
That said, even if that were to happen, once, anywhere, at anytime, that does not mean that this particular woman, in this particular scenario should be accused, specifically, of having done that. There should be the ability for a discussion that allows the scenario to exist without also simultaneously casting judgment on the specific people involved. It's a fine line, there's no doubt. It's almost like making a Law & Order episode if you will. Based on actual events but twisted to sound more dramatic and twisted.
Here's the simple bottom line that I am hoping we all adhere to.
Non-consensual sex is wrong. Period. There are no mitigating factors.
However, we don't know that there was non-consensual sex. We know that someone has made an accusation that sex occurred and they did not consent to it. That is what we know about this particular case right?
Hopefully my points come across and are not totally disjointed. It's not easy to spend over an hour reading this thread, at work (during lunch and then some I guess), while constantly waivering back and forth between I should say this or I should not say that or I should comment or I should not.
It's an important discussion, but with regards to the exact scenario this thread originally covered all we have is patience to learn what has or has not happened. The philosophical discussion pieces are great mental exercises but being tied to this thread add a level of volatility that hampers the discussion.
All very well said.
That's only fair if you've ignored much of what I've said. These are the kind of responses that have really turned this discussion into a free for all. Making these insinuations only makes matters worse, I thought you were better than that.
I'm sure he is. But this is an emotional topic and people have blind spots.
I also don't think you're a bad person who believes women who have been raped bear any responsibility. I do struggle to understand the points you're trying to make. You seem to be arguing that women can bear some responsibility for putting themselves at risk. Maybe, I don't know. I don't know how you can get there based on what little we know — if we know anything that's true — about this case.
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This thread is a f*cking trainwreck.
What purpose does this comment serve?
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I think modern rules of engagement suggest man should expect something if two random girls follow him to his place in the middle of th night after hanging all over him at a bar. This is to say nothing about statutory rape (which if the case assigns guilt without any care for circumstances) or whether she was raped, or her culpability in the matter at all. But she was certainly not being responsible. If you could watch a video of the enitre incident, from the meet, to the drinking, (underage?) to the to the hanging all over him, to the willing and intentional following back to his place, and that was your kin.. Tell me you wouldnt be infuriated with them for how IRRESPONSIBLE their behavior was. Furthermore, who knows what was said between the two parties? We live in a more scandolous (to put it gently) world than people would like to believe, especially those who havent experienced its truly darker sides. Right now we have accusations and circumstantial evidence so lets chillax on crowning this mystery teen Ms. Buffalo 2016 until we get the facts. Seeing things for how you prefer them as opposed to how they ought to be is a human epidemic and casting aspersions wildly without proper consideration of an opposing thought is a cardinal symptom.
If it was my daughter and she was 21 and wasn't drunk, I wouldn't find anything irresponsible about any of it — even ending in consensual sex. Does responsibility only enter into the picture because of the rape? If not, you and at least one other poster sound downright puritanical.
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If the News is accurate in reporting that she had a bite mark, isn't that pretty close to a smoking gun?
This hasn't been mentioned here, probably out of sensitivity. But we're pretty far down the rabbit hole now. And everyone has the same question in mind — did he do it?
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###### posts like this are why grace periods expire. What the hell does this even mean?
I must speak Bbbese.
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You and I both know the chances are pretty damn slim that she didn't have some sort of idea what happens when two people at a bar go back to his or her place afterwards. Of course I don't know 100%, neither does anybody else that's been speculating for the last 18 pages. It doesn't negate the personal responsibility, and it's far from premature.
Responsibility for...?
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And what say you about Saint Nicholas?
Killing Santa.
That's not even remotely similar.
What do you think goes through the minds of two people who have been flirting at a bar all night, when one of them asks 'You wanna go back to my place'?
He was asking for it — he flew Malaysia Airlines.
Of course it's not and there is a ton of gray area. But there are a couple of things we do know about. 1. She was at the bar with him. 2. He asked her back to his place. 3. She agreed to go. 4. I've already covered what most people already know happens when somebody asks you back to their place. She went there knowing sex would be somewhere in the realm of possibilities. With that said, yes, there is a level of personal responsibility right there.
/debate
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I never said it wasn't their fault being raped. I said it was their fault they didn't use common sense to avoid a situation like that altogether.
She voluntarily went to his house, with a witness...........................
It's a 'blame somebody else' society. Why not find a way to blame the driver for taking her there? Can we blame the beer company for having alcohol in their drinks? If she wasn't 21, let's find a way to blame the person that made the fake ID. Should we blame the bartender who doesn't have the benefit of testing each person's BAC before giving them another drink?
Personal responsibility................. it's an endangered species.
How about all those people who went to work at the World Trade Center on the morning of 9/11, knowing that it had been a target of terrorists years before and remained such a target?
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This thread doesn't need your dumb attempts at levity. Bye bye.
May I try? You can't wear shorts below the knees at SkyBar. I just got lectured by my nephew the other day for wearing shorts that ended above the knees. I'm not hip to the scene or anything, but I'm pretty sure young guys trying to look good aren't wearing "short shorts" to a place like that.
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I agree with you that just because she goes to his house isn't an invitation for sex. But there is such thing as common sense and personal responsibililty. Are you going to feel bad for me if I go to Overtown at 4AM with $5,000 in my wallet, my laptop under my arm, cell phone in pocket and come back empty handed with my throat slit? You shouldn't because it was stupid on my part for doing it. There are some things you just don't do if you know there might be consequences that you won't like. That doesn't give Kane the right, but this never would have happened if she used some common sense. It seems like nowadays nobody is ever held accountable for not using common sense.
The problem with your theory is that being raped is not a foreseeable outcome of going to a man's house for a late-night party. Especially given that she (apparently) was taking a friend along and would have assumed others would be present. And the invitation came from a superstar athlete, not some dude she met at a truck stop. If she was raped, the only fair and decent thing to say is, she wouldn't have been raped if Kane hadn't raped her. She bears no responsibility.
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Why the f*ck is the Buffalo News even printing this?
"Hey boss, I got some quotes from the owner about some girls being flirtatious with Kane. He has NO IDEA if either was the alleged accuser though."
"Eh f*ck it, publish the quotes anyway."
Because it sounds like Croce thinks it's the same woman, but can't say or know for sure. He does suggest they left together.
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Not that I ever frequented Skybar but the owner just strikes me wrong. That said here are more details than WGR published.
It struck me wrong too. Very passive-aggressive. Hey, I have no skin in the game. ha
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Not according to WGR. They do no original reporting. WGR is just repeating what they read in the News. Here is the News link:
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At Cape Canaveral for a month. Watch for an Atlas V launch on the 31st. Hopefully, this will light a little fire under the ass of my career. I'll be "on console" (read: in the control room) for the launch.
In the meantime, I'll be sampling local beers. Cigar City Jai Alai is winning so far.
Please tell me you have a buzz cut and you're wearing those half rimmed glasses from the 60s.
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Nice try, Hank. I moved.
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That's an amusing comment, seeing as all you've done in your past few posts is look at it from your perspective, and what you determine justice to be. In the midst of your rant about how monetary settlement shouldn't influence criminal charges, did you once stop to think what criminal charges mean for the victim? You were happy to tell us what you'd want and not want if your daughter were the victim, but never once said what she might want. Your posts reek of someone who has never really thought about what a rape trial means for the victim, let alone read something about it or talked to somebody who has been sexually assaulted.
The biggest problem with rape cases is there is often a lack of physical evidence that rape has occurred, so they devolve into a he said she said situation, which of course necessitates the victim taking the stand. Rape is about the most traumatic experience a woman can go through, and the trial makes them go through it twice--it inflicts more pain, and can delay the emotional healing process. Additionally, any decent defense will tear apart her past and try to perform a character assassination, since the entire case is dependent upon the victim's credibility. All of this in front of friends and family, for the very questionable likelihood of conviction. What if the victim goes through all of that, only to see the defendant walk? Is that really a preferable outcome to taking a settlement and trying to move on with life? I admire the women who choose to take that path, but the notion that a woman who chooses to forego that in favor of a settlement somehow destroys her credibility is, to be frank, completely absurd. Having seen first hand the severe and long-term effects rape can have on a victim, I completely understand a woman opting against re-living the experience and wanting to get the healing process started as soon as possible, even if it means some level of societal justice isn't possible. The effects can be that severe.
I sincerely hope nothing ever happens to your daughter, but if it does, I also very sincerely hope you take into account her wishes on how to move forward rather than passing judgment upon her from your high horse.
Is a settlement even appropriate? If it is, what's appropriate beyond enough for counseling, medical treatment and the like? Should a portion of it go to a charity? I would hope you'd agree that a victim and a victim's family acting like they just won the PowerBall would be very inappropriate. "Honey, isn't this house great?" "This came from that time Jen got raped, right?" "Yeah, but these appliances are all stainless steel."
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Hit "tweets and replies." Replies to other tweets don't show up on the regular feed.
I can't believe I actually care what this guy said.
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The only tweet he deleted was the photo of the cup.
I don't see the other tweets in question.
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A guy that is at Kane's house with the Cup tweeted out a photo that was deleted moments later. He has been tweeting that Kane is not guilty and at one point said she is just a woman trying to ruin Kane's career... Not a good look to be spending time with this guy.
Here is the photo:
Especially when you're a high school coach...
Were the tweets also deleted?
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Have you ever spoken with a woman who was the victim of sexual assault?
Have you ever spoken to a woman who was a victim of sexual assault?
It's highly likely that I have.
(OT) Any poets out there?
in The Aud Club
Posted
I did it all for the wookie.