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Oh of course we should cheer on players who leave us because we deserve to suck? That doesn’t even make sense. I love the Sabres, I love Buffalo and if one ***** on us then I’m naturally going to dislike them no matter how legitimate or absurd their reasoning is.

Wow Rosen written off already. The guy needs a legit chance on an NHL roster. If it’s not here trade him somewhere where he gets a shot

I'd ask that we avoid making jokes that require the use of the disabled and legally incapacitated as a premise.

19 pages and this debate on whether the Sabres are actually improved tells anyone that objectively that if the Sabres are improved it's marginal.

This is just a chasm away from my philosophical stance “Demanding (of loyalty)….Regardless of the circumstances” That’s…ya man you do you - - - it’s honestly sort of (see:outright) dark lol are you sure you’re not from the DC universe?

Chimera. Bravo. They claim they want to be tougher to play against, but then ask guys like Tuck or Benson to fight. If the goal was actually to ensure liberties are not taken, trade for a 4th line enforcer.

People really, really underplay this. People want to be like “they are an anomaly, a bastardization of a franchise under Pegula, an utter historical embarrassment” then move on to discussing a waiver add and say “ooooo okay I think you are painting with a broad brush” when it comes to that topic or the next lol. It’s not just something we say: the sabres under Terry are an absurdity, in truth. Where fans generally would be anti player upon leaving, yes, the sabres deserve a different reaction. One wants to pretend they deserve the same reaction as other teams: one know they do not. The results don’t bare it

Just like the U.S. I may not always agree with everything we do but I'll always be proud to be an American and loyal to it. The Sabres are being ran by idiots but in the end they are what we have and we have to put up with it. We can vehemently disagree with the team and its management while still being loyal to the team and demanding the players do the same regardless of the circumstances. Unless the team isn't paying the players their agreed salary or have suffered 20 years here, I don't want to hear anything about a player being sad and wanting to leave.

No I clearly used your terminology but the sentiment was as in mock of others. I thought that would be clear cause those other stances are right there in the open, and you detailed yours on Dahlin if nothing else i’d merely be setting myself up for an easy dunking-on if not so..

And, it’s fine we disagree, here. For me it’s line in the sand type stuff, as it clearly is for you (when you curse, I know. You are always so calm lol) But, no, sports relative the sabres ARE the evil empire. This is I guess the thing I am most surprised to see people fail to grasp: the Sabres ARE, factually, a historical anomaly. They ARE the extreme. It really is possible to view them as the evil empire because that’s what they are. Extreme results, extreme stance. im not an extremist. I’m merely a realist

I actually thought I pretty much had a trademark on the phrase over the past couple pages. If others picked it up, I apologize.

Must win!

Dude, you might be the best poster here but you aren’t the whole board: my post wasn’t about you. It could only be disingenuous if I somehow was making the argument you specifically would say that. I’m sorry but you don’t have a monopoly on “f*ck” in this thread lol you made it clear in your post you wouldn’t blame Dahlin. There are plenty of other posters saying they’d side with the sabres given anything. Did you read those? Am I allowed to allude to them? Do you think I am afraid to quote you outright if I want to respond to you? We’ve been through the song and dance many times - i enjoy the sport of it - and I resent the above post

That’s precisely my point thank you for detailing it more eloquently than I ever could have Darcy did have to overcome. Adams doesn’t have to overcome anything. Because, as I keep saying, the owner and manager are part and parcel.

This is disingenuous. Go back and read my initial post. For me, your entire line of discussion has become "you can't really blame anyone else for anything Sabre-related as long as the evil empire is in charge." Yes I can, and I will. ***** JJ Peterka.

Once again, the 2nd best GM the Sabres had managed to overcome the constraints applied by management. Heck, his predecessor did too. He iced extremely middling teams when he had the Sabres becoming Edmonton East and racking up the 3rd highest payroll in the league. When he was forced to go austerity, he assembled a team that won its division within 2 years of the teardown. Both of them were "complicit with a strategy that was to the detriment of winning" on its surface but both won in an era where there were twice as many teams as the team's best GM built teams and almost none of them had Ray Miron or Jake Milford, or Gord Stellick or Fred Glover running their competitors. They succeeded under severe constraints. It's not that it can't be done. It's 2 fold. 1. The guy given the reins was not the right guy to take them. Not only was he completely inexperienced, his own playing career taught him the wrong lesson for building a very good team on the cheap. You HAVE TO HAVE THE GOALTENDING to do it. His SC team lucked into incredible health in the playoffs and 2 meh goalies that both were at their peak when the other one was down. He learned the wrong lesson from his experience; and he STILL hasn't understood that he completely missed the boat on that point. And 2, they tested a counter intuitive theory that it isn't so much maturity and experience are the keys to having a successful club; with experience a lack of maturity can be overcome. There is a reason the theory was counter intutive; turns out, players (unless they are truly exceptional, and even those aren't completely immune from the effects) really do need to be in their prime to hit their true peaks. You can't goose it along by forcing kids into roles they aren't ready for. And yeah, you need a really good GM to make it work. They had 2 chances to get that GM and whiffed both times. But, had they grabbed Zito, truly don't believe they'd still be in this weird spending place they're at (which they seem through the plan progressing as planned though far less successfully than they'd anticipated it happening as they will be within $5MM of the cap and really should be ~$1MM from it because they SHOULD bring in either another $3-4MM D-man should they trade Byram for F help or a $3-4MM F should they keep Byram; expecting they won't do that but they should and won't claim unequivocably they won't until we're setting the lineup in October) because the team would be having success and spending extra money on players would be increasing that success as well. And THAT would be translating into full (and in October, nearly full; go Bills) buildings and more revenue coming it. The winning and finances tend to feedback on each other. Let Adams be the guy interacting with ownership (if we have to, and it seems clear we're going to have to whether we like it or not) but DON'T let him be the guy trying to build the team. But get a REAL GM in house. AND take the tethers off. (Pretty sure we both agree on those last 2 points. 😉 )

If he does, f*ck him

I am going to say they are better b.c it's different. How much is up to them. If the team isn't much improved this year you think Dahlin is going to want out?

I’m not defending Botterill I’m saying being complicit with a strategy you KNOW is to the detriment of winning is harmful to the crest, actively YOU know, I know, Adams knows, that signing up for/initiating/being complicit with an EEE strategy is bad for winning Terry and Adams aren’t the sabres: they are Terry and Adams. I mean this literally: their primary goal isn’t the success of the franchise, it’s saving $ who do you think cares more about the sabres winning, Kevyn Adams? Or Mike Sheedy, the guy making this post. The guy who got here 5 years ago or the guy who was being woken up at 1 in the morning to be carried downstairs by his dad to watch a Dave Hannon OT goal 30+ years ago? Why am I here? To antagonize you all?

And yet, the Sabres 2nd best GM not only accepted the challenge of putting together a team on a budget, he got that team to 1 SCF and 2 other ECFs on a budget. (And because he did such a good job, that next year after the 2nd non-SCF ECF led to them being a cap team and still getting to the ECF once again.) He proved it CAN be done, but you have to hit on picks outside just the 1st round and you have to make shrewd trades and get more than just a bit of luck. Saying "no, I won't fire people that are loyal to ME" isn't staying loyal to the crest; it is staying loyal to yourself. And, honestly, the Sabres WEREN'T drafting well prior to cleaning out the scouting department and much as this kid personally thought Taylor and crew were doing a good job in Ra-cha-cha, they never could get past the Marlies. Botterill, rather than simply saying no needed to explain WHY he was saying no and convince management why. But, Botterill was the guy that only drafted ONE CHL player in his drafts (and that was Cozens in the top 10) and chose two HORRIBLE HCs. Losing him wasn't the loss. Passing on Zito once again on the the do over was the tragedy. Zito could've made it work.

Honestly, I hope one day you are rewarded for your blind, unwavering, and unquestioned support. You deserve it. I know we are at odds a lot but we just see it differently: you post at me telling me to leave once a week, I get you want me gone, I’m sorry. I try not to respond to your posts generally because I anger you, but you keep quoting me. I’m trying to explain the organization is reliant on your mindset and using it. You’ve explained you are comfortable with that: all power to you then, thanks for the explanation in seriousness

That doesn't even make a lick of sense; we are powerless in this whole situation. I can't tell Terry to spend money, sell to a local owner who will keep them here, or the like. If I had that sort of power then it makes some sense. But I and neither can any of us do so. Whoop-de-*****-doo, toughen up kid; there are far worse situations to be in then with a cheapish NHL team making 750k, soon to be 7mil, a year to play a sport. We don't get paid, and many of us could only dream of his job. I'm going to pat him on the back and say good luck because he can't put up with the same pain us fans go through year after year.

Could be. I never paid close enough attention. But I do enjoy going to these games. Too bad the Bills open at home the weekend before. Otherwise I'd be there.

Botterill “no, I won’t fire those men, I don’t believe in cutting costs” Adams “‘no, I don’t mind trying to win while intentionally handcuffing ourselves, just keep expectations low, thanks one of these is far, far more loyal to the crest and one is far more loyal to a paycheck. you aren’t supporting the Crest by sticking with them as Terry burns them down: you are actively harming them. I use the republic comp cause it’s true. It’s not illogical to say he’s selfish: it’s illogical to say “f*ck him for doing it” Because we, like him, know the organization is a bad place to be If your bias as a fan extends SO FAR so as to be able to hold it against him, in THIS case..yes, you truly are lost

There is nothing illogical about saying JJ Peterka is selfish. His actions in this instance are a textbook example of this: he put his own interests first. There is nothing illogical within the context of fandom to dislike a player who puts his own interests above that of the team. It is entirely possible to both understand something and dislike it at the same time.