Goodfella25 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since we are somewhat on the topic of places to skate locally, I was wondering if anyone knows of any leagues around here. I just moved back to the burbs of Buffalo and I am looking for something this summer or next fall...I'm a bar-leaguer (B/C League) so that's really the skill level I am looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Laura Stamm's Power Skating DVD is what you want. She is the gold standard in power skating instructors. Skates are hard to find. Expect to buy two pair. Your 1st pair and a pair one year later when you realize how they should really fit. Did you personally try on these skates and buy them or were they a gift? If they were a gift - then expect to return them because there is a slim chance they actually fit correctly. I tried on a dozen different brands before I just found a pair that I think will fit (CCM Vector 6.0). My current Nikes are horribly oversized. Make sure these skating lessons are power skating lessons and not some uber basic adult skate that won't prepare you for what you really need to do on your feet. As for hockey stops - wear a helmet! I can stop very well to my left. When trying to learn to my right - I caught an edge so bad that if my helmet wasn't on I think I would have died on the ice. I never hit my head so hard in all my life. If you could swing me by the feet like a hammer - that's how hard I hit. Scared the living hell out of me. One technique to learn the hockey stop is this: While skating slowly, just turn one ankle out and scrape the ice until you come to a stop. Don't turn your body. Keep doing this until you get used to the feel of shaving the ice. Soon, you will feel more comfortable turning your hips as you scrape. It will really get you past that 1st stumbling block. BTW, DON'T keep practicing your hockey stop to one side and not the other. I did that and to this day I can't stop to my right. Force yourself to learn both sides - it will be easier than trying to pick up the other side later. Well, I just ordered Laura's dvd. It better be worth it damn it! :D Great advice and I would stress the first point. Sizing and shape differ from brand to brand, so make sure you're comfortable with your chosen pair. For example, I use CCM's simply because they tend to be a little wider and fit my foot better. Also, don't worry about how "good" your skates are. I'm not familiar with the NPH Supreme Selects, but Bauer makes great skates and if it works for you than they are the "best" skates. A lot of people get caught up in the high end skates (myself included) and honestly they are probably the worst skates to learn on. Yes, also good advice! I forget which skates I bought actually, but I tried on a number of different types to make sure it felt right. Now I never think about my skates at all while I'm playing, they fit just perfect. I did have to learn how to lace them up right, looser on lower part and tighter up top for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Check out the link SDS provided in post 11. Really in-depth explanations. Plus everyone elses comments on the importance of proper fit. It was funny reading the story about having skates that are too big, compensating with extra socks, and then skating with your ankles bent....That was me as a kid. New skates too. I imagine I'll be trading my Christmas skates in this week. Getting the proper fit seems to be all-important. Also, the additional links at the bottom of the page cover stick buying, etc. Reading all this great advice is really getting me psyched up. Scott Noble, the guy who wrote those guides is pretty cool. He decided to take up the sport at 34ish just like us and became obsessed. He managed a hockey shop and started writing reviews. Next thing you know, he got a book offer based on those reviews! It is only $10 and a decent, funny read if you are just starting to get into the game. It explains all those things you are too embarrassed to ask. (Here's a tip, never go into a hockey shop and ask for a "butt plug". It's either a butt end or a plug - don't combine the two! :lol: ) He will answer your emails and he even gave me his shop number so I could speak to him on the phone. Well, I just ordered Laura's dvd. It better be worth it damn it! :D it helped that many of the drills she went through were the same ones I was learning in clinic. There is a lot of info on that DVD, although it may not seem so at 1st. By the time you are done you realize there are 25 drills you want to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Check out the link SDS provided in post 11. Really in-depth explanations. Plus everyone elses comments on the importance of proper fit. It was funny reading the story about having skates that are too big, compensating with extra socks, and then skating with your ankles bent....That was me as a kid. New skates too. I imagine I'll be trading my Christmas skates in this week. Getting the proper fit seems to be all-important. Also, the additional links at the bottom of the page cover stick buying, etc. Reading all this great advice is really getting me psyched up. Thanks... Actually, I think mine are too small... Narrow to be exact... I always knew that ice skates are a size smaller... You lift up my insole on my Missions and the shell says 9D... The actual skate is marked 10D. I should have got an E width... I knew you need them close fitting, just like ski boots.. I thought the heat sensitive/forming material would give me the latitude. Actually the more I break them in the better... Then again... That break-in isn't really enjoyable... I really think I over bought... Even know the skates were dirt cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 That is such great advice... I have been figuring it out slowly and filling in the blanks from what I know about skiing... I really think it is all about ice time too??? I gather... Just as you have four edges on the snow... Same goes for your skates... And you want to keep your whole upper body static and isolated from your lower body... I wasn't gonna comment in this thread... And just grab the info... But, what you said makes perfect sense. I have been skiing for about 30 years now... Never really skated except a few times a year... I can "skate" on skis, even ski and skate backwards down the hill... I consider myslef and expert skier that can ski all terrain... It drives me nuts that I am not as prolific on the rink! Know my son (8) really wants to learn to ice skate... And I am not that strong of a ice skater... I have only been out maybe 10 times in five years... Things I want to work on and learn are: Skating backwards Hockey stop going left... I am starting to get it going right and just stumbled onto the technique you explained... If I can do that I would feel complete where I can "grow." M crossover and power I feel is awesome... I would really like to get rolling, but feel uncomfortable during open skates with lots of "traffic" around... I go 6'3"... 235... And I don't want to take anybody out... I don't have an issue with speed... I love to get rolling and work the crossover... That is fine in both directions... Right now, I use a pair of Mission Amp 3's that I purchased back in 2001... I never really skate alot and feel I over bought... They fit good, but seem too narrow (D width... I have a bit wider foot)... I think they may be TOO stiff and was thinking about getting more of a rec skate and saving the Amps for when I get better... They also have a heat mold feature that seems to be getting better with time (never strapped it to the heat machine though) Just as in skiing... The "transmission" seems to be all boot and fit... I really want to progress and get prolific on the ice... Again it is driving me nuts and want to feel as home on the rink as I do with my son on the slopes... KeavBeau... I know you ski, do you have any suggestions? There's already been 30 or so good posts on stopping, so I won't add to that. For going backwards, keep your knees bent, hips bent slightly forward, and head up (almost like you are about to sit into a big comfortable chair). Work 1 legged "C" cuts and when you are comfortable with each, alternate them. (When you are doing them right, you will hear the ice "crunch". (You'll know it when you hear it.)) Remember to bring your skate all the way back under you (when 1st working them, you'd actually want to touch your heels together to make sure you are coming all the way back; you'll lose a lot of power if you only bring your feet back to about shoulder width apart). Easiest way to learn backwards crossovers (IMHO) is to skate backwards on one of the circles. Start with C-cuts again (outside leg) and when you are comfortable with them go to the crossover. (Remember, the outside leg crosses over in front of the inner leg.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Easiest way to learn backwards crossovers (IMHO) is to skate backwards on one of the circles. Start with C-cuts again (outside leg) and when you are comfortable with them go to the crossover. (Remember, the outside leg crosses over in front of the inner leg.) actually, I may have a better way.... Start on the circle - facing the dot. cross your r-leg over your left. Move your left leg out. Continue this while following the circle. Eventually you get pulled backward with your momentum and you are doing the backward crossover! This simple drill got me doing them (sloppily at 1st) in minutes, where as before I couldn't do them at all. It works really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 There's already been 30 or so good posts on stopping, so I won't add to that. For going backwards, keep your knees bent, hips bent slightly forward, and head up (almost like you are about to sit into a big comfortable chair). Work 1 legged "C" cuts and when you are comfortable with each, alternate them. (When you are doing them right, you will hear the ice "crunch". (You'll know it when you hear it.)) Remember to bring your skate all the way back under you (when 1st working them, you'd actually want to touch your heels together to make sure you are coming all the way back; you'll lose a lot of power if you only bring your feet back to about shoulder width apart). Easiest way to learn backwards crossovers (IMHO) is to skate backwards on one of the circles. Start with C-cuts again (outside leg) and when you are comfortable with them go to the crossover. (Remember, the outside leg crosses over in front of the inner leg.) Thanks Dave! I can get moving with the c-cuts... But, it really isn't that fast... I really think the key is ice-time. The think with open skates is that soemtimes they get crowded and you get all kinds of level... Kids flopping, going against the grain, etc... I guess I gotta find the off times during the day and school hours to go... I know the exact feeling on the snow... But, when I move those four edges under my soles of my feet... I seem to throw everything out the window... I really want to work on the stops... If I can check my turns, I know I will progress light years real fast... It will also give me the confidence to know I can stop even if I am hauling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 KeavBeau... I know you ski, do you have any suggestions? I've never been good at explaining how to skate, but I will say that I feel the way you carry your body when skiing aggressively is similar to ice skating. I would also say that stopping is similar only in weight transfer. When skiing, stopping on a dime usually isn't an option so one anticipates some slide (hope that makes sense) and you adjust your edges to ride out the slide. What the other guys have said is great advice and repetition is the best way to learn. It's tough as adults who pay to play. To me once a week feels like I'm spinning my wheels. I feel my stride/balance/turns start clicking when I'm getting 4-5 hours in a week. So, I try to get at least one drop-in session a week in addition to whatever games I'm playing, I would prefer two, but my damn career keeps getting in the way :D . I also play pick-up inline on a regular basis, although I go back and forth on whether this helps or hurts. So, get out there as much as you can, even if its for open skate. As for your skate question, if i read it right, you are looking for a wider skate? Since you're in illinois, you should be able to find a reputable hockey shop to help you out. The myriad of manufacturers differences is mind boggling. Bauers E's = CCM's D's, blah, blah, blah. Not moention the difference in the brand lines. I do believe CCM Tacks tend to be a bit on the wider side. Do a search at modsquadhockey.com to see what you can find. Some knowledgeable people over there, many who are either industry reps or shop owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I've never been good at explaining how to skate, but I will say that I feel the way you carry your body when skiing aggressively is similar to ice skating. I would also say that stopping is similar only in weight transfer. When skiing, stopping on a dime usually isn't an option so one anticipates some slide (hope that makes sense) and you adjust your edges to ride out the slide. What the other guys have said is great advice and repetition is the best way to learn. It's tough as adults who pay to play. To me once a week feels like I'm spinning my wheels. I feel my stride/balance/turns start clicking when I'm getting 4-5 hours in a week. So, I try to get at least one drop-in session a week in addition to whatever games I'm playing, I would prefer two, but my damn career keeps getting in the way :D . I also play pick-up inline on a regular basis, although I go back and forth on whether this helps or hurts. So, get out there as much as you can, even if its for open skate. As for your skate question, if i read it right, you are looking for a wider skate? Since you're in illinois, you should be able to find a reputable hockey shop to help you out. You may find them cheaper, but skates are the one thing I definitley wouldn't buy online. The myriad of manufacturers differences is mind boggling. Bauers E's = CCM's D's, blah, blah, blah. Not moention the difference in the brand lines. I do believe CCM Tacks tend to be a bit on the wider side. Do a search at modsquadhockey.com to see what you can find. Some knowledgeable people over there, many who are either industry reps or shop owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimFandango Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I went skate shopping yesterday, and the Easton Synergy's seem to be the most comfortable skates to me. I tried on a few bauer's and ccm's and nothing came close to the comfort of the Easton's. I have a wider foot, but not quite an E. Just thought i would pass it a long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bg17 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 It's easy to get bogged down in the various brands, sizes, options in skates. While the Synergies are comfortable, they are an extremely stiff boot which would, more likely than not, hamper a lower level skater. Anyone that is on the inexperienced side is definitly best served by visiting your local hockey shop - GreatSkate for those lucky enough to live in Buffalo. Explain the situation and I'm sure you'll leave with a quality pair of good fitting skates without overbuying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 It's easy to get bogged down in the various brands, sizes, options in skates. While the Synergies are comfortable, they are an extremely stiff boot which would, more likely than not, hamper a lower level skater. Anyone that is on the inexperienced side is definitly best served by visiting your local hockey shop - GreatSkate for those lucky enough to live in Buffalo. Explain the situation and I'm sure you'll leave with a quality pair of good fitting skates without overbuying. What do you think of the Laurel pro shop? Dave and Mike seem pretty knowledgeable there. Not sure about the others. As for stiff boots - I think it all depends on how big you are. EII is 235 lbs. He could flex any skate he wants. I'm only a 160 lbs, so I can't go with those upper-tier skates... I would be concerned buying skates out of town and then not having access to them for a refitting, 2nd bake, punching out, stretching, etc... However, I'm sure their initial advice would be fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 actually, I may have a better way.... Start on the circle - facing the dot. cross your r-leg over your left. Move your left leg out. Continue this while following the circle. Eventually you get pulled backward with your momentum and you are doing the backward crossover! This simple drill got me doing them (sloppily at 1st) in minutes, where as before I couldn't do them at all. It works really well. Interesting. My only issue with this drill is it seems you will be on the wrong edge on at least your right (outer) skate. That said, however, if I ever coach pre-mites again or get a 1st timer, I might add this one to my repertoire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 that is what I attend in MD. They charge $20 a session (drop-in). At 15-20 skaters a session - it is a nice chunk of change for the instructors. Not really when you consider what it costs for an hour of ice time around DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Not really when you consider what it costs for an hour of ice time around DC. Well, our hour is from 6:50 to 7:50 am on Sat. so that is cut rate time. I believe the deal they worked out is the rink gets 50%. Of course, we all pay in cash so the real question is 50% of what? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bg17 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I have heard, but not confirmed, that the Gardens in Laurel charges 500.00/hr. They are so busy in the winter months that I would be surprised if a 6:50 AM start time on a weekend was discounted at all. The pro shop in Laurel is great and the guys do know their stuff. My son has had some wildly inconsistent sharpenings and they are frequently very slow with the sharpening and not just because of volume. Some of the guys just take a real long time and I haven't been able to trace that to any consistency in the sharpening either. That said, they are the best in the local area and an easy second place to The Pond in Newark, DE. The stiff boot will still hamper a learner. Ankle flexion is key to developing a powerful stride, and even a big boy will fight with the Synergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 What do you think of the Laurel pro shop? Dave and Mike seem pretty knowledgeable there. Not sure about the others. As for stiff boots - I think it all depends on how big you are. EII is 235 lbs. He could flex any skate he wants. I'm only a 160 lbs, so I can't go with those upper-tier skates... I would be concerned buying skates out of town and then not having access to them for a refitting, 2nd bake, punching out, stretching, etc... However, I'm sure their initial advice would be fantastic. That was exactly my reason for going with a stiffer boot... I knew the more I skated, I would progress fast... Sure it has been a few years getting going... But, I do notice when I started getting more ice-time this year... I am able to do more stuff... I am still really thinking about getting a second pair as you noted and having them pro fitted... I swear by by Technica ski boots... I paid about 125 bucks extra just for the fitting, analysis and heat... Yet... BEST money ever spent! I should have never just winged it on skates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I have heard, but not confirmed, that the Gardens in Laurel charges 500.00/hr. They are so busy in the winter months that I would be surprised if a 6:50 AM start time on a weekend was discounted at all. The pro shop in Laurel is great and the guys do know their stuff. My son has had some wildly inconsistent sharpenings and they are frequently very slow with the sharpening and not just because of volume. Some of the guys just take a real long time and I haven't been able to trace that to any consistency in the sharpening either. That said, they are the best in the local area and an easy second place to The Pond in Newark, DE. The stiff boot will still hamper a learner. Ankle flexion is key to developing a powerful stride, and even a big boy will fight with the Synergy. that might be, but I know our clinics pay 50% of their weekly take. Of course, the Gardens gets more back because we pay $400 a season to play in the adult league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topshelfcookies Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Honestly, if I knew how to skate...and coach...I would open up a school for adult hockey in WNY strictly for beginners. Older guys who want to give the game a try but are too embarrassed to go to a local rink because they have no game. I bet somebody would make a good buck if they did. Man oh man, that would be AWESOME! I learned how to skate as a kid at beginner clinics, and still can skate fine, but I never learned how to stop better than just slowing myself down by dragging a toe. I played roller hockey all through middle, high school and college, but haven't played ice hockey since I was about 8. I learned to skate so late (comparitively speaking) that by the time I was learning at 8, kids had been skating since they were 2, 3 or 4. A beginner adult league would be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niagara66 Posted January 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Man oh man, that would be AWESOME! I learned how to skate as a kid at beginner clinics, and still can skate fine, but I never learned how to stop better than just slowing myself down by dragging a toe. I played roller hockey all through middle, high school and college, but haven't played ice hockey since I was about 8. I learned to skate so late (comparitively speaking) that by the time I was learning at 8, kids had been skating since they were 2, 3 or 4. A beginner adult league would be amazing. I bet there's thousands of guys like us around here. That would blow the doors off a softball league or bowling. Ice time will be the problem, maybe a spring/summer league to coincide with deep cup runs....PM me if you want. I just heard from Buff State. They have open skating M-F at 12:00 noon, Open Skate and Shoot Tues 10:00 am and Thurs 11:50 am. Lessons 10:00am, 11:00am, 12:00 noon on Saturday. Lessons are 7 weeks for $45. That ain't dick. I'm lucky. I live two miles from there and I'm self employed. I'm going to Great Skate Friday and my 1st lesson Saturday. I'm all over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Elbow pads and a helmet. I smashed my elbow f-ing around with my nephew's Pee Wee team on Thanksgiving morning. I've got what feels like a dozen bone chips in there right now. Luckily, it's not painful unless I lean on it. I've put extra padding in my elbow pads when I play so if I do land on it while battling for position; it won't make me cry in front of my teammates. Oh yeah, I'm a very good skater (SDS can verify) and caught a rut and landed on my elbow, so you new guys need to wear elbow pads because you WILL fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 please don't laugh, but after reading that link about fittings (post #11), i realized that i've been learning on unsharpened skates. i have been thinking all this time that my wobble was a result of weak ankles and thick socks. switching to thin socks was a fluke (hadn't done laundry at the time of my lesson), but it improved my performance quite a bit. i can't wait to see how putting an edge on my blades will change my confidence with turning and stopping. slowly but surely, i will figure this all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 please don't laugh, but after reading that link about fittings (post #11), i realized that i've been learning on unsharpened skates. i have been thinking all this time that my wobble was a result of weak ankles and thick socks. switching to thin socks was a fluke (hadn't done laundry at the time of my lesson), but it improved my performance quite a bit. i can't wait to see how putting an edge on my blades will change my confidence with turning and stopping. slowly but surely, i will figure this all out. :lol: we are laughing with ya Will... My 1st time out I wasn't sure if I was supposed to take the chin strap off my helmet once I put the full cage on. It made sense to me to take it off (why buckle three straps?), but I was wrong. Thankfully, no one noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 :lol: we are laughing with ya Will... My 1st time out I wasn't sure if I was supposed to take the chin strap off my helmet once I put the full cage on. It made sense to me to take it off (why buckle three straps?), but I was wrong. Thankfully, no one noticed. Strangely, I always seem to notice that when I'm reffing. I love sending guys to the bench to make a chinstrap out of tape. It pisses them off, but it's for their own good. All helmets must have chinstraps fastened. It doesn't say it has to be tight, or what it should be made of. Fastened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimFandango Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Took to the ice for the first time today on real skates. Was quite an experience as i can now greater understand what you all are talking about. However, i was left with more questions. When i push off should it sound like i am taking a chunk of ice out with me. Is this because i am a 210lb guy and that is where the sound comes from or am i doing something wrong already? When skating forward, i should most likely be using the two inside edges? I think i am still sort of rollerblading on ice skates which is awkward. Also, are you NEVER supposed to be on both edges of the skate at the same time, even when skating perfectly straight? Just a few things that i noticed today when going out there. I had to leave the ice when the 9 year old figure skaters started showing me up. B-tches. Thanks for all the advice so far. Should be an exciting month. Hopefully with no trips to the ER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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