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Spittin Chiclets Podcast featuring Kyle Okposo


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5 hours ago, JohnC said:

Let's look at what KA during his time as a GM. He nearly completely  rebuilt and restaffed the hockey operation. He dealt the old core and got a fair-value return on those assets. This roster has substantially turned over with younger replacements. The prospect pool has increased. The point here is regardless how you manage the clock the GM has put this franchise is a good situation to succeed in the near future. Compare that to where this franchise was before he took over? 

Yes, BUT, none of this matters unless a number of the prospects become good or at least decent NHL players. So let's look at what he's done pragmatically, because the assessment of most of it is ongoing.

1. Restructured the scouting staff and methodology. Number of prospects has increased due to number of picks acquired but results remain to be seen. This is perhaps the year we see if those picks are starting to work out. 

2. Promoted a coach from in house staff. Coach is popular with players, seems to be a good teacher, results have not translated to wins (yet). Coaches have to win. This is the year Granato has to perform and the team must show improvement. If not, is he really a good head coach?  Remains to be seen. 

3. Traded away the old core. Risto trade was a steal. Big applause. Eichel trade was fair. Results depend on Krebs and the other picks. If it ends up Tuch vs. Eichel, as much as I like Tuch, not a good trade. Wait and see. Reinhart trade depends on Levi signing and being good. If not to either, Florida won that deal but in fairness, he was gone anyway so just give that one a pass for now. 

4. Free agency. Nothing of note. Failure in terms of goaltending. 

5. Additional trades and signings. Really only Olofsson extended. rest of the moves fairly insignificant (unless I've forgotten one)

So what do we have? Are we a better team? We're younger, we have potential, but unless that potential comes to fruition it's just another round trip on the never ending failure train. This year will tell us a lot. 

Edited by PerreaultForever
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I think its over-eager to expect this year’s team to tell us a lot on the success of Adams drafting. Adams has had 3 drafts. it’s 2-5 years for picks to arrive, then add a couple more for them to fully develop.

Steve Yzerman was named GM of Tampa in 2010, inheriting an 80-point team.

In 2013 the team missed the playoffs despite having already assembled a list of core players including Stamkos, Hedman, Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Killorn and Vasilievskiiy.

The reason was largely because none of those players except Stamkos was even a whisper yet of what they would become.

Not sure why you’d expect the likes of Peterka, Quinn and Power to develop at a quicker pace.

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Olofsson has developed into a good NHLer. Drafted 8 years ago.

Asplund developing into a good NHLer. Drafted 6 years ago.

Middelstadt is developing into a good NHLer. Drafted 5 years ago.

Dahlin is developing into a very good NHLer. Drafted 4 years ago.

 

Most players take time to develop. Years.

Our draft picks are no different.

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10 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think its over-eager to expect this year’s team to tell us a lot on the success of Adams drafting. Adams has had 3 drafts. it’s 2-5 years for picks to arrive, then add a couple more for them to fully develop.

Steve Yzerman was named GM of Tampa in 2010, inheriting an 80-point team.

In 2013 the team missed the playoffs despite having already assembled a list of core players including Stamkos, Hedman, Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Killorn and Vasilievskiiy.

The reason was largely because none of those players except Stamkos was even a whisper yet of what they would become.

Not sure why you’d expect the likes of Peterka, Quinn and Power to develop at a quicker pace.

It tells you a lot in terms of progression. How they are developing and are they showing signs. Nothing faster or more than that. The ones from his first draft are the ones that have to start showing some signs of being NHLers. 

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17 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think its over-eager to expect this year’s team to tell us a lot on the success of Adams drafting. Adams has had 3 drafts. it’s 2-5 years for picks to arrive, then add a couple more for them to fully develop.

Steve Yzerman was named GM of Tampa in 2010, inheriting an 80-point team.

In 2013 the team missed the playoffs despite having already assembled a list of core players including Stamkos, Hedman, Johnson, Kucherov, Palat, Killorn and Vasilievskiiy.

The reason was largely because none of those players except Stamkos was even a whisper yet of what they would become.

Not sure why you’d expect the likes of Peterka, Quinn and Power to develop at a quicker pace.

You make a good point that even for highly ranked prospects it takes time for them to develop before becoming established NHL players. But what I can say about the three prospects that you listed is that they should be better than the players they will be replacing on the roster. Based on Peterka's and Quinn's play in the AHL they demonstrated that they are ready to move up the system. (However, that is not to say that especially for Peterka more time in the AHL will not benefit him.) It's encouraging that in the short audition that Power had last year he demonstrated that he can play at this highest level of hockey and not look out of place. Each of these players will at times will struggle. And along with their struggles they will show glimpses of their abundant talent that they will have to tap in to during the season and future. 

The NHL has changed since the Tampa players you listed were drafted. It's gotten younger. Although I am expecting inconsistent play from these young Sabres, I am also expecting enough production to the point where they are considered to be more assets than liabilities for this team. I'm really excited to see how the large group of young players on the Sabres play next season!

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19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

 

So what do we have? Are we a better team? We're younger, we have potential, but unless that potential comes to fruition it's just another round trip on the never ending failure train. This year will tell us a lot. 

The bold is what I was responding to.

How much can this year really tell us about how good a group of 17- to 20-year-olds will eventually be?

If it’s about the thin edge of the wedge showing signs, then you are talking 2 or 3 players out of a group of about 35. None of those 2 or 3 need to start ripping up the league at 20. Or will necessarily become stars if they do.

What did we learn from Victor Hedman’s 26-point D+2 season or Nikita Kucherov’s 18-point D+3 season? Or the rookie years of Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis and Luke Adam for that matter?

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19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes, BUT, none of this matters unless a number of the prospects become good or at least decent NHL players. So let's look at what he's done pragmatically, because the assessment of most of it is ongoing.

1. Restructured the scouting staff and methodology. Number of prospects has increased due to number of picks acquired but results remain to be seen. This is perhaps the year we see if those picks are starting to work out. 

2. Promoted a coach from in house staff. Coach is popular with players, seems to be a good teacher, results have not translated to wins (yet). Coaches have to win. This is the year Granato has to perform and the team must show improvement. If not, is he really a good head coach?  Remains to be seen. 

3. Traded away the old core. Risto trade was a steal. Big applause. Eichel trade was fair. Results depend on Krebs and the other picks. If it ends up Tuch vs. Eichel, as much as I like Tuch, not a good trade. Wait and see. Reinhart trade depends on Levi signing and being good. If not to either, Florida won that deal but in fairness, he was gone anyway so just give that one a pass for now. 

4. Free agency. Nothing of note. Failure in terms of goaltending. 

5. Additional trades and signings. Really only Olofsson extended. rest of the moves fairly insignificant (unless I've forgotten one)

So what do we have? Are we a better team? We're younger, we have potential, but unless that potential comes to fruition it's just another round trip on the never ending failure train. This year will tell us a lot. 

1. Restructuring the scouting staff has resulted in better prospects. Yes we'll see if they pan out, but the fact is, they are better prospects. So just comparing it to the prospect pool of the past, it's a win.

2. This is tough. Because of the progression plan I think Granato is expected to have this team product at the rate its capable of doing given where the progression plan is at any point in time. We'll cover more on that in #4. All things considered, the coach has taken the team and they have improved on the ice. There is a notable skill gap in net. No overcoming that. That said, Granato did move Thompson to center which resulted in a notable improvement. Sure it's only one season but our overall judgment period is not much more than that.

3. Eichel trade was a W. He was a problem child on the team. Three years ago I was telling people on here about his locker room reputation. So much of it came out after he was traded too. Eichel may have all-world talent (we shall see) but he's not an all-world person or player. Risto.. easy. Reinhart was questionable unless Levi signs, but yes, he was going to walk.

4. They are not in UFA mode. It's not at that point in the plan. I don't consider it a failure. Not securing a goaltender isn't on the GM alone unless you want the GM to overpay and you want to assume that overpayment is enough to convince the goaltender to sign here. Otherwise, it's a trade that brings in a goalie. At least they got Comrie who might not be great, but he's likely better than what they had. I think the Ullmark topic has been closed, he wasn't worth it.

5. I'd give him credit for the Thompson signing. I'd give him credit for positioning the contracts to the progression plan.

If the bottom line is that you feel more confident in the potential of this team than you did in the potential of the team 2-3 years ago then I think that's a positive. But like anything, you can't fully judge the success until after.

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4 hours ago, dudacek said:

The bold is what I was responding to.

How much can this year really tell us about how good a group of 17- to 20-year-olds will eventually be?

If it’s about the thin edge of the wedge showing signs, then you are talking 2 or 3 players out of a group of about 35. None of those 2 or 3 need to start ripping up the league at 20. Or will necessarily become stars if they do.

What did we learn from Victor Hedman’s 26-point D+2 season or Nikita Kucherov’s 18-point D+3 season? Or the rookie years of Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis and Luke Adam for that matter?

You're misunderstanding me. I was responding to a comment that evaluated KA in a very positive light. My response included saying a GM can only be evaluated fully looking at draft results and although we have many prospects we can't say yet if it's good or bad. 

When I said this year will tell us a lot, perhaps you put too much in the words "a lot" and maybe it should have read this year will start to tell us. In any event I think this year tells us a few things. 

1. How good the coaching choice was. Aside from an unprecedented bad luck injury year (which can always happen)there's no excuse not to win more games than last year. If we don't, Granato has to come into question. 

2. Tearing down is over. He did that. Is it now building up. What's the trend?

and lastly

3. Are the first group of prospects (like Peterka) stepping in to NHL roles yet, even if minor or partial. His first round of picks might not be fully cooked yet but they should be showing signs and we should get glimpses of their potential. The cupboard has been restocked and now it can continue in a regular annual manner (i.e don't trade your picks away unless it's an impossible to turn down deal) but it's also time to START to see if the prospects are developing into NHL players.

I'm not expecting them to jump in and be rookie of the year candidates. I'm not one of those people thinking Quinn and Peterka will be solid regulars as some are expecting, but I do expect to see a few prospects bump Bjork and Vinnie off the roster. 

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4 hours ago, LTS said:

1. Restructuring the scouting staff has resulted in better prospects. Yes we'll see if they pan out, but the fact is, they are better prospects. So just comparing it to the prospect pool of the past, it's a win.

If the bottom line is that you feel more confident in the potential of this team than you did in the potential of the team 2-3 years ago then I think that's a positive. But like anything, you can't fully judge the success until after.

I don't disagree with any of the stuff I cut out. All of it was correct imo and the last sentence above is definitely true. There's no reason for the team not to be better this year. It should be, it has to be. If it isn't, well, I just don't know......

#1. though is unknown. On paper MAYBE they are better prospects. The thing is though, KA has had a lot of extra picks due to the tear down so we definitely SHOULD have more prospects. If we don't end up with a number of NHL starters in time it'll be a colossal failure worse than the previous bad GMs. Similarly, if Mitts develops into a starting top line player, Samuelsson is a full on regular shut down D man, Cozens becomes a top player and Dahlin stays an allstar, well suddenly JBot has given us a core of players (and you can add Thompson and Joker via trade). There isn't much Murray content left, but KA players really still remains to be seen. 

Considering all the high rated picks (I mean even the Vegas pick worked in our favour) there really is no excuse for some of these prospects giving us what we want and need. 

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