Anyone want to puke?

[nfreeman]

Also worth noting:

 

1. Briere was our leading scorer in the playoffs the past 2 years.

 

2. Philly is playing Washington in the 1st round. I think Washington will win, but it's far from a slam dunk, and certainly no one would be shocked if Philly won. That would be going from the bottom of the NHL to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 1 year.

 

3. Like Tom, I completely disagree with the "mirage" theory about last year's team. Ridiculous. We needed a couple of spare parts, not an overhaul. For that matter, a healthy Zubrus and a decent power play would've put us into the finals last year.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

That would be Kotalik.

 

And how many shootouts did we win without Briere compared to when he was a Sabre?

[X. Benedict]

And how many shootouts did we win without Briere compared to when he was a Sabre?

That's a very different question. But it wasn't Briere making a difference last year it was Miller.

 

Briere was 6/14 last year and an anemic 1/7 in home shootouts.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

That's a very different question. But it wasn't Briere making a difference last year it was Miller.

 

Briere was 6/14 last year and an anemic 1/7 in home shootouts.

 

6 more points would have put us in the playoffs this year.

 

Hopefully, we'll get a good backup goalie so Miller can get a break during the season.

[ExiledInIllinois]

You know I have heard you spew this sentiment on a few occasions and just laughed it off. Th notion that that team was lucky is just plain laughable. If they would have added a shut down defensemen and center to that team, they would have contended for the Cup for years.

Its a shame, because I really like most of your posts, but for me, and I am only speaking for myself, this sentiment just taints the rest of your posts.

 

You really think they would have mantained last season's pace... Playing crappy for the better part of the game only to pull out squeakers in the end?

 

??

 

Come on... You gotta realize that it wouldn't have kept going... That is all I am saying... They didn't play well last year especially towards the end... They tied with points and still won the Prez, that's cool! But, come on! One has just have to believe that CD and DB saw it for what it is worth and realized that the expectations and bar was set way too high for what they had going!

 

No?

 

The one thing that I really feel jibbed about is that we will never no... I would have like to see one more season and IMO... It may have been a rude awakening. Ruder than now!

[ExiledInIllinois]

I seem to remember some fans and posters trying to convince us that most of those guys were old and/or overrated and the Flyers weren't going to get much better. I also seem to remember reading the same things about the Rangers, but they're back in the dance as well.

At least Philly has a ticket to the dance...like the old NY Lottery marketing slogan - "you've got to be in it to win it..."

This "delusional fan" thinks that is utter and complete BS. I disagree that it was an illusion and the train would have derailed even if we re-signed CD and DB. We'll never know for sure on which one of us is right, and we can argue the hypothetical payroll permutations to death, but I think it's ludicrous to suggest that Buffalo would have missed the playoffs this year with both Danny and Chris, and even more ludicrous to suggest that fans are delusional to think the team would have been better off THIS YEAR without the captains that with them.

 

They may have made the playoffs... But, may have been treading water. Two years is enough of near misses. I am fine with tearing it down to build it up... That is all I am saying.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Also worth noting:

 

1. Briere was our leading scorer in the playoffs the past 2 years.

 

2. Philly is playing Washington in the 1st round. I think Washington will win, but it's far from a slam dunk, and certainly no one would be shocked if Philly won. That would be going from the bottom of the NHL to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 1 year.

 

3. Like Tom, I completely disagree with the "mirage" theory about last year's team. Ridiculous. We needed a couple of spare parts, not an overhaul. For that matter, a healthy Zubrus and a decent power play would've put us into the finals last year.

 

I think we needed an overhaul... That's is where we disagree... The league changed back during the '06 playoffs.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

You really think they would have mantained last season's pace... Playing crappy for the better part of the game only to pull out squeakers in the end?

 

??

 

Come on... You gotta realize that it wouldn't have kept going... That is all I am saying... They didn't play well last year especially towards the end... They tied with points and still won the Prez, that's cool! But, come on! One has just have to believe that CD and DB saw it for what it is worth and realized that the expectations and bar was set way too high for what they had going!

 

No?

 

The one thing that I really feel jibbed about is that we will never no... I would have like to see one more season and IMO... It may have been a rude awakening. Ruder than now!

 

I guess after starting last season with 10 victories, and going on a few winning streaks, that since we didn't win every game towards the end of the season is considered playing crappy? We won the Prez Cup regardless, and this year we're not even in the playoffs. If we were a lucky team, we wouldn't have made it back to the EC finals last year, and that's not being dillusional. Management failed to sign key players, and did nothing to replace them last offseason.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 more points would have put us in the playoffs this year.

 

Hopefully, we'll get a good backup goalie so Miller can get a break during the season.

 

I think T'Bo should have been given more oppotunity to sink or swim... They lost faith after some bad outings, true... Yet, it did seem that at cetain times he posted great outings (MTL and BOS)...

 

They lost faith in him and should have rode him more... IMO, he would have risen to the occasion even with the clunkers.

 

I do believe they also needed to ride Miller for the long haul and see how he would handle it.

 

It is a double edge sword that can't be resolved in 82 games I do admit.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I guess after starting last season with 10 victories, and going on a few winning streaks, that since we didn't win every game towards the end of the season is considered playing crappy? We won the Prez Cup regardless, and this year we're not even in the playoffs. If we were a lucky team, we wouldn't have made it back to the EC finals last year, and that's not being dillusional. Management failed to sign key players, and did nothing to replace them last offseason.

 

No.

 

I am taking about taking middle of whole games off and then riding to the rescue... It was a reoccuring theme last year... A theme that played out this season, yet not nearly as much unless you count the hapless 'Bolt's games... Look what style they (TBL) play though...

[Bmwolf21]

I wasn't aware that Danny would have signed a one year deal. <_<

Not my point at all.

 

They may have made the playoffs... But, may have been treading water. Two years is enough of near misses. I am fine with tearing it down to build it up... That is all I am saying.

You don't blow up a team that goes to two consecutive ECF's. You tweak the roster, you upgrade the defense a little, you drop some dead weight in the form of Max, Kotalik, etc.

 

Let's not act like this was done by design. They certainly didn't "tear it down to build it up." That's revisionist history at its finest. They screwed up with Drury and then waited until they were sure Chris was going to leave before offering Danny, and ended up losing both.

 

I think we needed an overhaul... That's is where we disagree... The league changed back during the '06 playoffs.

Again, you change the role/periphery players, not the centerpieces.

 

I think T'Bo should have been given more oppotunity to sink or swim... They lost faith after some bad outings, true... Yet, it did seem that at cetain times he posted great outings (MTL and BOS)...

 

They lost faith in him and should have rode him more... IMO, he would have risen to the occasion even with the clunkers.

 

I do believe they also needed to ride Miller for the long haul and see how he would handle it.

 

It is a double edge sword that can't be resolved in 82 games I do admit.

T-Bo had three good games, and a bunch of really bad outings. One shutout against Montreal, one SO when the season was over against a Boston team who looked like they couldn't care less whether they won or lost, and one OTL against Ottawa in early January.

[jrsarkov]

i wish that the sabres still had briere and drury. they don't and they play for enemy teams. hopefully, the rags and flyers gets swept. both are great players. but, briere disappeared a few times in the playoffs last year except when he was in the box.

[apuszczalowski]

i wish that the sabres still had briere and drury. they don't and they play for enemy teams. hopefully, the rags and flyers gets swept. both are great players. but, briere disappeared a few times in the playoffs last year except when he was in the box.

And yet was still their leading scorer in the playoffs

 

Not bad for a guy who was invisible, I would hate to see what the other players would be called if the leading scorer was invisible. Vanek just about had his @ss nailed to the bench along with Max for the second year in a row in the playoffs, and they gave him a huge raise

[ExiledInIllinois]

Let's not act like this was done by design. They certainly didn't "tear it down to build it up." That's revisionist history at its finest. They screwed up with Drury and then waited until they were sure Chris was going to leave before offering Danny, and ended up losing both.

 

How do you know? Do you have inside information about where they really wanted to take this team?... Call it what you will. We will never know if they wanted to change direction. And if my theory is right, would they have the balls to admit it? Hell no!

 

We just don't know. ??

 

And after two striaight ECF's FAILURES, I for one am the type of person that would tear it down... Again, think I would be able to tell the public... Just let it play our like it did... Blow things off and let it force things to play out and you have a fresher slate. I am not saying they didn't misss fire, they did becaue they missed the playoffs.

[Bmwolf21]

And yet was still their leading scorer in the playoffs

 

Not bad for a guy who was invisible, I would hate to see what the other players would be called if the leading scorer was invisible. Vanek just about had his @ss nailed to the bench along with Max for the second year in a row in the playoffs, and they gave him a huge raise

I still don't know what it's going to take to get the Sabres to move Max. 10-13-23 in 49 career playoff games. Defensive liability, inconsistent scorer, bad penalties. I just don't get it. Is he going to have to hijack the Zamboni and run down the pee-wee players between periods? Fire his stick, javelin-style, at the owner's box? Do the Ned Braden strip-tease during the shootout? What's it going to take?

[apuszczalowski]

How do you know? Do you have inside information about where they really wanted to take this team?... Call it what you will. We will never know if they wanted to change direction. And if my theory is right, would they have the balls to admit it? Hell no!

 

We just don't know. ??

 

And after two striaight ECF's FAILURES, I for one am the type of person that would tear it down... Again, think I would be able to tell the public... Just let it play our like it did... Blow things off and let it force things to play out and you have a fresher slate. I am not saying they didn't misss fire, they did becaue they missed the playoffs.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a wild guess and say that typically, if your plan is to go in another direction, you don't continually try to re-sign a guy (like they did with Drury)

[tom webster]

And yet was still their leading scorer in the playoffs

 

Not bad for a guy who was invisible, I would hate to see what the other players would be called if the leading scorer was invisible. Vanek just about had his @[b]ss nailed to the bench along with Max for the second year in a row in the playoffs[/b], and they gave him a huge raise

 

 

Apus,

I generally agree with you but Vanek and Max both averaged about 16 minutes of ice time in last year's playoffs and while they weren't extremely successful, they weren't the least productive forwards on the team by a long shot.

[apuszczalowski]

Apus,

I generally agree with you but Vanek and Max both averaged about 16 minutes of ice time in last year's playoffs and while they weren't extremely successful, they weren't the least productive forwards on the team by a long shot.

i wasn't taking a shot at Vanek and Max or saying they weren't productive, I was just using them as an example, saying that if Briere was considered invisible, I would hate to see what max or Vanek would be considering Ruff was ready to bench Vanek, and did bench Max again for a bit of the playoffs

[tom webster]

Briere can talk all he wants but the fact is, he had very little to do with the team's resurgence. His line at $10 million this season.

 

79 games

31 goals

41 assists

72 points

MINUS 22

 

27 PP points. 45 reg strength points, which means he was on the ice for 67 reg strength goals against (simplifying to make point)

 

I'd agree that many other additions added to the Flyers making the playoffs, not Briere solely. Just as Briere being gone from Buffalo is not the sole reason we missed by a few points.

 

Washington in 5 maybe 6.

 

Your simple math implies that he wasn't on the ice for any goals for other than the ones he got points on. It also implies that he wasn't on a power play when a shorthanded goals was scored.

Danny had a terrible January and February, no doubt about that. He did, however, turn it around and had a decent season. Let's not dismiss the effect of him being there had on other players belief in the team.

[tom webster]

You really think they would have mantained last season's pace... Playing crappy for the better part of the game only to pull out squeakers in the end?

 

??

 

Come on... You gotta realize that it wouldn't have kept going... That is all I am saying... They didn't play well last year especially towards the end... They tied with points and still won the Prez, that's cool! But, come on! One has just have to believe that CD and DB saw it for what it is worth and realized that the expectations and bar was set way too high for what they had going!

 

No?

 

The one thing that I really feel jibbed about is that we will never no... I would have like to see one more season and IMO... It may have been a rude awakening. Ruder than now!

 

Your memory, like a lot of others, is skewed by the results. Go back and look at the stats and the record. It wasn't as bad as you remember. You can't pick parts of seasons apart and say if they didn't win the first 10 or if they didn't lose these games or those games. The season doesn't run January to January or after the all-star game or whatever.

As far as the league changing, goals were down by less than a half a goal per game and if Pittsburgh, Washington, Montreal or Detroit wins, all of a sudden the league will be back to trying to emulate the fast pace of those teams. We can only hope.

[carpandean]

Not my point at all.

I was being sarcastic to prove my point, which was that how they would have affected this year's performance is only a small part of that decision. Yes, this year they probably would have been better with him (Danny), but that doesn't necessarily mean that they should have signed him for 5+ years at $5+ million per. You said we couldn't argue that they wouldn't have been better this year and my point was that it wasn't a decision about this year only (thus, the one year deal comment.)

[X. Benedict]

Danny had a terrible January and February, no doubt about that. He did, however, turn it around and had a decent season. Let's not dismiss the effect of him being there had on other players belief in the team.

 

That is really hard to know (an interesting thought however). Watching that team I think it is safe to say that with the emergence of Carter and Richards that should be a really solid team lines 1-3 for quite a while to come.

[Bmwolf21]

I was being sarcastic to prove my point, which was that how they would have affected this year's performance is only a small part of that decision. Yes, this year they probably would have been better with him (Danny), but that doesn't necessarily mean that they should have signed him for 5+ years at $5+ million per. You said we couldn't argue that they wouldn't have been better this year and my point was that it wasn't a decision about this year only (thus, the one year deal comment.)

It's still missing my point. My post had nothing to do with long-term contracts, what this guy might have signed for, what that guy's contract would have done to the payroll structure, none of that. It was specifically in response to EiI's opinion that the Sabres' "lucky train" would have "run off its lucky track" even with Briere and Drury - and my response is that there is no way anyone can convince me that this team misses this playoffs and "runs off the track" with DB and CD in the lineup this year.

 

It was a mirage, an illusion that gave everybody a false sense of security. Imagine how everybody would have been screaming bloody murder when the train ran off its lucky track having signed the dudes that left.

 

Sad part is that everybody involved knew... Except the delusional fans.

[carpandean]

It's still missing my point. My post had nothing to do with long-term contracts, what this guy might have signed for, what that guy's contract would have done to the payroll structure, none of that. It was specifically in response to EiI's opinion that the Sabres' "lucky train" would have "run off its lucky track" even with Briere and Drury - and my response is that there is no way anyone can convince me that this team misses this playoffs and "runs off the track" with DB and CD in the lineup this year.

Ah, yup, sorry. I read your post in Mike Ox's (quoting yours) and mistook your intention as the all-to-common "we would have been better this year, so we should have signed them" argument.

 

I would say that I highly doubt they would have been at the top again this year, but they would most likely have been in the playoffs. Of course, I think that would have been true with just one of two (preferably Chris), especially if Teppo had also played.

[Bmwolf21]

Ah, yup, sorry. I read your post in Mike Ox's (quoting yours) and mistook your intention as the all-to-common "we would have been better this year, so we should have signed them" argument.

 

I would say that I highly doubt they would have been at the top again this year, but they would most likely have been in the playoffs. Of course, I think that would have been true with just one of two (preferably Chris), especially if Teppo had also played.

No worries. I do agree with the second part of your post, that we still would have been better with one of the two (and I would have preferred Dru as well.)