carpandean Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Glad to see someone is holding vaguely defined posters such as "You" responsible. Yeah, who was "you" in that post. It came right after mine, but I didn't say anything of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Yeah, who was "you" in that post. It came right after mine, but I didn't say anything of the sort. It wasnt meant towards anyone in particular..Everytime I see a Brian Campbell post it sets me off on a tangent of hate and discontent of how management screwed up this team.."You" can be anyone at that point of my rage..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Maybe the answer should have been the Sabres improve things around him instead of getting rid of him. Also, Brian is a plus 10 , and opponents have scored an average of 2 goals against. Now I could spend some time defusing your anecdotal story about him being on for most of the goals against, bu I think we both know what I will find. Mirtle was doing some research on this - esp. 5x5 goals - it was mid February - his case was not against Campbell per se, but the limitations of what plus/minus mean. http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2008/02/defining-bad-defence.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Mirtle was doing some research on this - esp. 5x5 goals - it was mid February - his case was not against Campbell per se, but the limitations of what plus/minus mean. http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2008/02/defining-bad-defence.html Its funny, I don't remember people even talking about plus/minus years ago. All of a sudden you have people quoting the stats that don't even know what they mean. I only brought up Campbell's number to refute the claim that he seemed to be on the ice for several of San Jose's goals against. On an related note, I thought it was embarassing when TG brought the numbers up in his "interviews." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Its funny, I don't remember people even talking about plus/minus years ago. All of a sudden you have people quoting the stats that don't even know what they mean. I only brought up Campbell's number to refute the claim that he seemed to be on the ice for several of San Jose's goals against.On an related note, I thought it was embarassing when TG brought the numbers up in his "interviews." There are a few here who no matter what is said are ok with Campbell,Drury and etc not being resigned...No matter what happens even missing the playoffs they will think the SAbres did the right thing for the good of the longterm team..So be it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 There are a few here who no matter what is said are ok with Campbell,Drury and etc not being resigned...No matter what happens even missing the playoffs they will think the SAbres did the right thing for the good of the longterm team..So be it.. Since Tom was arguing with me, I'll respond here. I think I've been pretty outspoken with regard to my criticism of this management over the last year. In fact, take a look at this post I made earlier today: http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php...40&start=40 I do not agree with not re-signing Drury and Briere and matching the huge Edmonton offer. I also wish we could have kept Campbell. However, there is some reality and that in a salary cap era, a lot of good players are going to come up for free agency and all will deserve big raises, but you can't keep everyone. Of the people who have left the organization, I am most accepting of Campbell leaving. While I'm a huge fan of the guy, his deficiencies in the defensive zone still do not make him worth the money he's looking for in my opinion. I still do not consider Campbell to be a top 5 defenseman in the NHL, therefore I don't believe he is worthy of top 5 defenseman money i.e. Niedermeyer, Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara type money. If we are going the comparables route, I think Andrei Markov is overpaid as well. For less money, like $4.5 million a year, I would absolutely keep him, but not for $5.75 - $6.5 million a year. $1.25-$2 million could be difference between keeping Gaustad AND Paille or keeping Campbell. And, to be in getting the money he's looking for, he's got to be a top 5 defenseman in the NHL, and I don't think he's there given his defensive deficiencies. Briere and Drury, however, I feel are worthy of the money and the Sabres should have paid them. I'm happy for Campbell that he's found a new home and will make a tremendous amount of money this offseason, but we have too many guys like Campbell on this team and not enough players to cover for his high risk play. And, for those who do watch San Jose games, he's definitely on the ice when the Sharks score, but you will notice that he is frequently on the ice when they get scored on. All my point was, Campbell is a great fit in San Jose and the team and system around him hide his deficiencies and show off his strengths, which is why he is having so much success with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 On an related note, I thought it was embarassing when TG brought the numbers up in his "interviews." Me too. I thought it was petty on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Me too. I thought it was petty on his part. What numbers did he bring up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 There are a few here who no matter what is said are ok with Campbell,Drury and etc not being resigned...No matter what happens even missing the playoffs they will think the SAbres did the right thing for the good of the longterm team..So be it.. Without touching Drury... Not much nuance there: It seems Campbell wanted at least 6 x 5.75 ....the Sabres offered 3 X 5.75. I think he'll make a hell of a lot more. I don't think anyone in this forum was happy to see him go. I was glad to see they got some return on him with Bernier and a 1st rounder. As for offensive defensemen (he doesn't kill penalties) .....after age 30 not too many have had many productive offensive years. Paul Coffee had maybe 3. Housley 2 or 3. Leetch 2. Gonchar is putting up points...but personally I was never crazy about Gonchar's complete game. Campbell will probably get a contract to take him to age 35, as he should. I don't blame him for walking away from the Sabres offer, I also don't blame the Sabres for walking away from him. I hope he has a good career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Without touching Drury...Not much nuance there: It seems Campbell wanted at least 6 x 5.75 ....the Sabres offered 3 X 5.75. I think he'll make a hell of a lot more. I don't think anyone in this forum was happy to see him go. I was glad to see they got some return on him with Bernier and a 1st rounder. As for offensive defensemen (he doesn't kill penalties) .....after age 30 not too many have had many productive offensive years. Paul Coffee had maybe 3. Housley 2 or 3. Leetch 2. Gonchar is putting up points...but personally I was never crazy about Gonchar's complete game. Campbell will probably get a contract to take him to age 35, as he should. I don't blame him for walking away from the Sabres offer, I also don't blame the Sabres for walking away from him.I hope he has a good career. He followed the Rainbow to the pot o gold.. What he is gonna get is gonna be ridiculous.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 What numbers did he bring up? If I remember correctly, he brought up D & B's +/- numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 If I remember correctly, he brought up D & B's +/- numbers. oh...Thnxs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 As for offensive defensemen (he doesn't kill penalties) .....after age 30 not too many have had many productive offensive years.Paul Coffee had maybe 3. Housley 2 or 3. Leetch 2. Gonchar is putting up points...but personally I was never crazy about Gonchar's complete game. Campbell will probably get a contract to take him to age 35, as he should. I don't blame him for walking away from the Sabres offer, I also don't blame the Sabres for walking away from him. I hope he has a good career. I think Neidermeyer's last few years have been pretty good and he's on the other side of 30. I think Schneider has had some good years recently. Rafalski came to the NHL at 28, so most of his good years have been on the other side of 30. Zubov's also been pretty productive. And Boucher only became an All-Star after 30. Rob Blake is definitely not the player he was, but I think he's had some pretty good seasons since turning 30. There are definitely guys out there who have had very productive careers after turning 30. I think more than likely Campbell will be one of those guys who was a late bloomer and he will have about 3-4 good seasons on the other side of 30, if I had to guess. If he improves his defensive play, he'll be a Norris Trophy winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 What numbers did he bring up? He managed to interject their plus/minus numbers at the time of his interview. I would bet a round of playoff tickets that before he was prepped for those interviews he didn't even know what plus/minus was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 If I remember correctly, he brought up D & B's +/- numbers. The one thing that is assumed in the Campbell discussion is that Campbell has reached his plateau. I would argue that the guy has been a late bloomer throughout his career and I think he is still on the rise. I wouldn't bet the farm, but it wouldn't shock me if he becomes the player we end up missing most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 I think Neidermeyer's last few years have been pretty good and he's on the other side of 30. I think Schneider has had some good years recently. Rafalski came to the NHL at 28, so most of his good years have been on the other side of 30. Zubov's also been pretty productive. And Boucher only became an All-Star after 30. Rob Blake is definitely not the player he was, but I think he's had some pretty good seasons since turning 30. There are definitely guys out there who have had very productive careers after turning 30. I think more than likely Campbell will be one of those guys who was a late bloomer and he will have about 3-4 good seasons on the other side of 30, if I had to guess. If he improves his defensive play, he'll be a Norris Trophy winner. Neidermeyer I was reluctant to put into the offensive category because he is such a complete player, Schneider is probably a very good comparison. I don't see Campbell improving his defensive play much or ever winning a Norris, but you never know. My suspicion is this is the best we will see him. I would put my money on Phaneuf winning a few Norris's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Neidermeyer I was reluctant to put into the offensive category because he is such a complete player, Schneider is probably a very good comparison. I don't see Campbell improving his defensive play much or ever winning a Norris, but you never know. My suspicion is this is the best we will see him. I would put my money on Phaneuf winning a few Norris's. If you were the Sabres that draft yr would you have taken Phaneuf or Vanek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 If you were the Sabres that draft yr would you have taken Phaneuf or Vanek? Phaneuf. Although I have changed my mind more than once since.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Phaneuf. Although I have changed my mind more than once since.... That was a tough choice either way...At the time I was all caught up in the Vanek frozen four and thought it would be cool..But I thought about how nice it would be to have a giant hitting def.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 If you were the Sabres that draft yr would you have taken Phaneuf or Vanek? I wanted Phaneuf on draft day, I wanted Phaneuf when Vanek scored 40 goals last year, I want Phaneuf today and I'll want him every year as long as he plays. DR blew it big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 DR blew it big time. Larry Quinn told him to draft Vanek as he would benefit from the hulking nets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Larry Quinn told him to draft Vanek as he would benefit from the hulking nets. Just think with the Larry Quinn nets we have been stocking the system very well: Ryan, MacArthur, etc. Hell, in the shootout we would have had 5 straight goals in the Quinnbownette.TM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Man, Campbell has just heated up since going to San Jose. He has 18 points in 18 games with them and last night got a PP goal and assist. He now has 61 points and is third in defenseman scoring in the NHL and second for defenseman in assists. Man, you put that guy on a team with talented guys like Thornton, Marleau, Cheechoo, Michalak, and Setoguchi and wow he's on a torrid scoring pace. Too bad we couldn't keep him, especially at the price he wanted. Oh well, he's on fire now in SJ, and I think he'll probably stay there if I had to guess cause he's in a great situation. If SJ throws UFA money at Campbell, I think he'd stay given how hot he's been this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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