EM88

Physically and Mentally Quinn looks lost. TWhy is he almost invisible on the ice most nights he plays? And why has he has such a drop off in his play around the net and him going to the net to get shots from the tough spots on the ice? Other young players like Benson and Kulich are getting shots from there and going there. Tyson Kozak has more shots on goal from the front of the net in 2 games than Jack Quinn has all year. Dylan Cozens, who Jack Quinn spends most of his time on the ice with is going to the net and taking shots from there. Even Jack Quinn's hitting is down. From 4.4 hits per 60 last year to 2.19 this year. That is not his game, but to drop 50% is a lot. He seems to be avoiding contact and areas of the ice where he may have contact, unlike no other player on this team including his own self from the last 2 years. The Sabres say he started the year physically healthy, so it must be some kind of mental block he can't get by to do those things. As we approach the 30 game mark of the season and he has played over 20 games himself, it is no longer a small sample size. There are some fans, some posters here who same Jack Quinn will be fine. I hope so. But in light of not just the lack of pure production, but all the declining measurable. The declining secondary stats. The declining deep-dive analytics. With virtually nothing pointing to anything positive. I would like to be reassured as to how or why he'll break out of this.

I agree with you. I looked at the hockey database site and looked at where the Sabres picked, who they selected, and who they could have selected in the next 5picks over the last decade. You know what? They missed on some guys, but more often there wasn't anyone else picked close to where they were and they didn't select all that poorly. They for sure are not the best drafting team in the league, but they are probably middle of the road. I feel the issue is not drafting the wrong players. It is a little bit their development, and a lot of the roster mix, meaning who you pair those guys with when they are breaking into the NHL. I have read many others saying it is OK to have a lot of young players on your team, but you should pair them with vets, preferably good ones. Before you start a year pairing Quinn and Cozens and Peterka (LAST year) and expecting them to excel, how about overpaying for a veteran to put on the line with them? I say overpaying because you might overpay for the production that vet gives you, but its not the production you are paying for. You are paying for some production in addition to him being a settling influence with the young guys.

Not really. It is a matter or expectations. If you think he is a legit 1st liner who you expect 30-35 goals out of who comes through in clutch situations as much as anyone, I can see you would be upset. But I think of him as a very good 2nd liner who is adequate on a first line. Someone who is very good on the forcheck. Someone who doesn't disappear in clutch situations but also just isn't good enough to be relied on to carry your team. He will have some big moments but then fade away for multiple game streaks. If your expectation is the first one, yes, you might be upset with him. I think of him more of the 2nd. I am not thinking he is a problem with this team. This team is out of the playoffs because of the game played by Quinn and Cozens. Because UPL is less consistent than last year. Because Dahlin is out and when he wasn't out was playing hurt. Those are much bigger issues to me than Tuch.

And this is an example of a rational post by SwampD, that is not escalating and an example of how to avoid sarcasm. Bravo. Instead we have people resorting to all caps, sarcasm in almost every post, and a promise to challenge people they don't agree with whenever they want, (and obviously however they want).

Yes. I jumped into this late but the reason I posed was in support of the above bolded. Nothing says rational, non-angry poster like when he said "I'm going to challenge you angry folks whenever I feel like" That is someone who is not confrontational AT ALL(obviously sarcasm there)

To the fact Terry Pegula warrants discussion and some of us want to take part in that discussion. It certainly is.

I will be the third person in. The other poster that you describe at least started with rational points and to me looked like they were open to discussion. You and Trip 65 seem more like you want to resort to sarcasm and shouting first with others how disagree with you and pass right over the rational discussion. I can personally deal with things escalating between posters. It does bother me when the jump to shouting and insults and sarcasm happens before the rational discussion runs it course.

We talk quite a bit about Terry Pegula and he deserves all the discussion he gets on this forum.

I do not think he is pitiful in his own zone. He at least holds his position and doesn't leave his zone that much. He may not be a good man-to-man defender but he plays effective zone coverage with is size and reach. I have not noticed him overstaying his shift and being on the ice too long, but I will keep an eye out for that. Its something that may very well happen and has an impact that I just haven't noticed yet.

It might be, probably would be. But keeping him in the lineup, at the moment, is hurting this team. I'm not sure what the answer is other than, He plays despite being a liability without the puck and not scoring.

The above would be nice, but it isn't getting much in return. Cozens with what a team has to pay him has very little trade value. Krebs is basically a journeyman or borderline NHL/AHL player so he has little value. Rosen might be a good middle six winger in the future, but he isn't now and that isn't a guarantee so he has little value. So to other teams, all 3 of those have little to no value (the $7m per year that comes with Cozens may be a negative to other teams. So you are saying give a 1st rounder and a few things of little to no value for a top center? No one is going to do that, especially when you consider how little cap space most of the NHL has and how they simply get Cozens to fit under the cap.

With Quinn have not we been told that he is fully physically healthy? If that is the case then what is the risk of exposing him to waivers or a trade? Are there any other options you can do with him other than having him benched and not playing hockey? I know you don't want to give up on a top 10 pick, but he is hurting this team. Its not just this year, his career numbers equate to a 16 goal guy with 24 assists per 82. He is starting to get an injury history. He has regressed from those numbers. He isn't a playmaker. He isn't physical. He seems to be the 2nd worst forward on this team in terms of making away from the puck mistakes next to only Dylan Cozens. I do not have any ideas, the team is limited with options. But at this point putting him out there game after game isn't good, and benching him and making him sit in the pressbox doesn't help him get better either. I really think Pegula is a huge fan of Cozens. I think taking him out of the lineup or demoting him would not sit well with the King above.

Maybe it comes from above? Pegula or Adams, or both, Really like Cozens and want to see him put out there all the time.

To do what? I am not quite sure what you are thinking. Firing Adams and promoting from within changes very little.

Ruff is really the only new voice in the room. All the other guys, Karmanos, Venture, all of them. They all have had input into the current roster and they way things are done here. The only voice in the room I would trust maybe is Ruff. Keep any of those other guys and you may as well keep Adams also.

No, not at all I do not. That is how he got the job and keep his job. Botts got fired for not following the Pegula's orders. Adams knows that. Adams saw that. In no way has he been given keys to the car, in no way, shape, or form. This is not Adams team at all. The Sabres are Adams team less than just about any other team is their GM's team.

Ok, the palm tree warm city thing. I am sure there is something to it. When you are in your 20's and have millions of dollars, you can show off or enjoy your house and fancy car and use your swimming pool on an off day in the season better than you can in a northern, colder city. But, a lot of these guys, most of these guys, are from colder climates. Just as much as I say there is something to it, I also think there are people that do not like those warm climates. I know people who are miserable up north if the temperature goes above 80 degrees, and don't mind shoveling the driveway, going skiing or ice skating outdoors when it is in the 20's.

I understand what you are saying. But from my point of view if the above bolded is the case, I do not think it is Adams, but rather the entire front office, because Adams does not and can not operate autonomously of the rest of them in the room. The reason I lay off Adams a lot and at times defend him is I think he walked into a situation where, part of the reason he got the job, is he would deal with the limitations and restrictions of the job. Those restrictions being as follows: Terry having input. No one person making a decision, but it being more of a collaboration project. Salary limitations, with the hockey department not spending to the cap until AFTER the revenue starts coming in better. Adams may be a good GM, he may be a bad one that is getting better, or he may just be a bad one. But there are so many possible variables that I do not know. The Sabres GM role seems to be to not be what a traditional NHL GM role is. I am not saying other successful organizations do not have a GM that works without total power. I am saying the Sabres GM I truly think has less power and is just more the part of a machine than in others. What I am confident in is this, he was not hired as GM and told by Pegula, here are the keys to the car, go take it for a ride. I think every trade, every draft pick, it is not just his way, it is all the top scouts and all the guys like him, Karmanos, Jakubowski, Forton, Nightingale, Ventura, and Pegula making those decisions. I think of Adams coordinates those meetings and having as much input as everyone else, but not a lot more. But I do not think for moment if Adams wants to draft "guy a", but Karmanos, Forton, and Pegula all like "guy b" that Adams gets his way. I think of that situation happened, the Sabres are getting "Guy b" as long as Adams does not totally 100% hate him. To me the Sabres work as a watered down representative republic, with the GM having just slightly more power than those below him. I want the system changed first, more than I want the guy who runs it changed. If a change is made at the top and he is replaced from within, I do not see how the results of that timeline will be much different than the results would be of the timeline without a gm change. That is unless the way the front office operates changes first, and that is up to Pegula. I am not 100% against a GM change. I just do not think it will make much of a difference in and of itself. And I would rather Pegula actually give Adams the keys to the car, let him take it for a ride without any supervision, without anyone else in the car, and see what condition that car comes back in. If it comes back a mangled wreck, then you make the change.

Not me. I do not tune into a game to watch to see the team lose.

A lot of what you say is true. A counterpoint to think about. It may get turned around not with a trade for a big name player. Not with another #1 overall pick. Not with another new coach. What may be needed is luck. Everyone stay healthy for the rest of the year, and be the team in the league that has more bounces go your way for a change than anyone else. If that gets you in the playoffs, some pressure is off, your guys get playoff experience, and the next season you come back being even better for it. 13-14 years is a long time to be waiting for puck-luck to initiate something good. But when things do turn around, that might be just what does it.

I do notice that when you listen to national broadcasts or even see highlights with the out of town announcers, they often seem to have little respect for the Sabres as a team, but Tage Thompson is someone they go out of their way to single out as a player on the Sabres to fear. My impression is that around the league, Thompson is regarded as close to a superstar player that is stuck on an irrelevant team in Buffalo.

The villages have determined Adams is a witch and they wanted to see someone hung or burned at the stake. We don't need no lawyer like diversions and question to slow down what the villagers want.

Not to break up the argument between the two of you but what I have read lately on here is that expected goals does not take into consideration shooting percentage? Is that correct? Because I also read that one of the best indicators of a team's success that equates to wins and losses over the long term is shooting percentage for plus save percentage. Not even strength only, but overall. If both of those things are true, then the expected goal stat would be very fundamentally flawed as it does not take into consideration one particular statistic that over the years is one of the best factors of wins and losses.

Thread gatekeeping with you as the gatekeeper? I'll pass.

Your post has listed most of the problems this team has. Power might be good and has some great games, but he is far too inconsistent to be a leader getting his ice time night after night. On some nights he might equal Dahlin's overall play but that does not happen often enough. He is no where ready or able to step up and be a #1 shut down guy at all. Quinn and Cozens are awful. Not wanting more out of them. Not playing a bit below expectations. Not playing ok but not in clutch moments. No, they are truly awful. Hurting your team when they are in the lineup awful. Your team would be better without them awful. The level of anger and angst on this message board would be a lot less today if they didn't play level of awful.