EM88

Taking orders and advice from Pegula, which was the condition he was hired upon.

It has been well documented at this point, that there were other teams that did not make those cuts to the same degree the Sabres did. Also, Pegula continued that austerity program even after the Pandemic wound down and many other teams were spending and hiring again. I do not have the quotes and articles at my fingeritps at the moment for this post, but a quick search will show many of them posted on this very forum. Once Pegula soured on Eichel (yes, there are articles and quotes that have been posted on this very forum that show Pegula was not happy with Eichel), he was more than happy to get rid of his salary. Why did Reinhart end up leaving? The Sabres would not pay him long term, pnly giving him short term, short money deals. Mitts was a critical part of this team last year, and he said the Sabres did not even approach him with a long term offer, which the Sabres did not deny either. He was traded in part, probably largely, because they did not want to pay him money long term while well under the cap. They bought out Jeff Skinner and they didn't seem to use that free cap space to spend real money to fill out the roster. That is more on Pegula than the Hockey department. I highly doubt Adams, nor anyone in the hockey department, was thinking they don't want to pay these guys even when they had much cap space. That came from Pegula, not the hockey department. I also remember Pegula saying when he bought the team something like "there is no salary cap on scouting or coaching" or something like that, saying how the team would work to win the cup. If everyone was cutting back on Staff and scouts after the Pandemic, wouldn't a smart business person, a multi-billionaire that wanted his team to win, a smart leader, use that opportunity to grab and sign as many good people as you could when others were letting them go? Pegula did the opposite. He gutted the Sabres scouting and development programs and was certainly not in a hurry to rebuild those programs for a few years. Several of the guys that were purged were picked up by other teams instead of the other way around. This is on Pegula. Most of what his franchise is right now in a negative way, its on Terry Pegula.

I would disagree. Some, I could say several of the moves he has made have been decent. He has some good ones, he has some bad ones, he has some where he had to take the best offer because of the position he was in. For example, You can not pay Reinhart or Mitts when the owner does not want to open the purse so you have to take the best offer. It seems to me that much of the criticism Adams receives that is justified is not that all of his moves are a disaster, but rather he does not make enough moves or that he takes too long to make them. Any trade he does make, that would remedy the above.

I disagree also, but probably for a different reason. Adams may as well make the trade if it is there. Because to me it is not Adams that is the issue. It is this entire front office under Pegula. If Adams were fired and someone was promoted from within, I do not think you get much difference than Adams. If a new GM from the outside were brought in but was left with much, or any of the staff below him such as Karmanos, Forton, and the others and Pegula wants them to continue to all have input, you don't get much difference than Adams. The only way you can get what you are looking for is if Adams is gone, those guys under him are gone, and Pegula allows a restructure of the way the department is run including excusing/excluding his own involvement to its current degree. If Pegula is willing to fire the entire hockey dept and remove himself from those regular meetings fine. If that does not happen then you may as well let Adams keep taking shots at things because nothing else would be different otherwise.

I beg to disagree. Someone just posted a picture where it looks like he quit on a goal the other day. A picture granted. MJD1001 posts frequent breakdowns and videos in GDT's that shows he quits on quite a few plays, is late coming back, and with just a tiny bit more hustle could break up what were actual goals against. He quits on very few plays is narrative on Cozens that I am not sure how it was started, but watching him live at a game and seeing replays of goals when he is on the ice does not support.

A good GM as you described would not have been hired by Pegula, and if he was he would not be long for the job. It is an issue because on the hockey side of things, the last GM got fired for not listening to the owner. Whether it was about roster decisions, not spending money, or firing scouts and staff, both Botts and Pegula himself said he was let go because Pegula was not being listened to. Pegula: "Do as I say or get fired." Botts: "No" Pegula: "You're fired, now I'm hiring someone with the condition they will listen to me." Adams was around. He knows that is how he got his job. He knows its likely that with the team not doing well, he might get fired real quick if he tries to tell Terry where his 'boundries' are. It happened just a few years ago. If you are Adams, its basically this. Let Terry talk to you. Don't set boundries. Take his suggestions. Make him feel he is an important part of hockey and roster decisions. OR, end up like the last guy, that actually happened and you were first-hand witness to it.

I do not care what he does elsewhere if he isn't doing it here. So what if he scored 30 goals on a different team? If he is quitting on plays here, playing terrible defense, and not scoring for you, you don't keep a player sucking up cap space and not helping you just so he doesn't play better someplace else. I do not want to wait a half season, a full season or multiple seasons to see if he can get better again. If you can get something of value back in return, and while doing so remove what has been a negative player so far this year from your roster. Do it.

There are posters on this forum who agree with you. There are others that think that your thoughts are not true and this is mostly Adams fault. I tend to agree with you. Something like 4 gms, 8 coaches, roster turnover year after year, but one owner. It has been discussed in much great detail other place on these pages, but I agree with you and your 2nd and 3rd lines summarize Pegula accurately and succinctly.

I think that there are decent GM's with experience that can be hired and with enough money you could convince to come here. AFter all, if they fail here, it doesn't look that bad because no one succeeds here anymore and if they do succeed, they will be the first to do it in a decade and a half. The issue is Pegula. Will Terry Pegula give the power, control, and the money a new GM would want to make things work? Or will he continue to require that new GM to take the input of a scouting staff and front office that has been a large part of the problem? Or possibly give a new GM the marching orders to win first, fill the building first, and only after that can he start spending to the cap?

Physically and Mentally Quinn looks lost. TWhy is he almost invisible on the ice most nights he plays? And why has he has such a drop off in his play around the net and him going to the net to get shots from the tough spots on the ice? Other young players like Benson and Kulich are getting shots from there and going there. Tyson Kozak has more shots on goal from the front of the net in 2 games than Jack Quinn has all year. Dylan Cozens, who Jack Quinn spends most of his time on the ice with is going to the net and taking shots from there. Even Jack Quinn's hitting is down. From 4.4 hits per 60 last year to 2.19 this year. That is not his game, but to drop 50% is a lot. He seems to be avoiding contact and areas of the ice where he may have contact, unlike no other player on this team including his own self from the last 2 years. The Sabres say he started the year physically healthy, so it must be some kind of mental block he can't get by to do those things. As we approach the 30 game mark of the season and he has played over 20 games himself, it is no longer a small sample size. There are some fans, some posters here who same Jack Quinn will be fine. I hope so. But in light of not just the lack of pure production, but all the declining measurable. The declining secondary stats. The declining deep-dive analytics. With virtually nothing pointing to anything positive. I would like to be reassured as to how or why he'll break out of this.

I agree with you. I looked at the hockey database site and looked at where the Sabres picked, who they selected, and who they could have selected in the next 5picks over the last decade. You know what? They missed on some guys, but more often there wasn't anyone else picked close to where they were and they didn't select all that poorly. They for sure are not the best drafting team in the league, but they are probably middle of the road. I feel the issue is not drafting the wrong players. It is a little bit their development, and a lot of the roster mix, meaning who you pair those guys with when they are breaking into the NHL. I have read many others saying it is OK to have a lot of young players on your team, but you should pair them with vets, preferably good ones. Before you start a year pairing Quinn and Cozens and Peterka (LAST year) and expecting them to excel, how about overpaying for a veteran to put on the line with them? I say overpaying because you might overpay for the production that vet gives you, but its not the production you are paying for. You are paying for some production in addition to him being a settling influence with the young guys.

Not really. It is a matter or expectations. If you think he is a legit 1st liner who you expect 30-35 goals out of who comes through in clutch situations as much as anyone, I can see you would be upset. But I think of him as a very good 2nd liner who is adequate on a first line. Someone who is very good on the forcheck. Someone who doesn't disappear in clutch situations but also just isn't good enough to be relied on to carry your team. He will have some big moments but then fade away for multiple game streaks. If your expectation is the first one, yes, you might be upset with him. I think of him more of the 2nd. I am not thinking he is a problem with this team. This team is out of the playoffs because of the game played by Quinn and Cozens. Because UPL is less consistent than last year. Because Dahlin is out and when he wasn't out was playing hurt. Those are much bigger issues to me than Tuch.

And this is an example of a rational post by SwampD, that is not escalating and an example of how to avoid sarcasm. Bravo. Instead we have people resorting to all caps, sarcasm in almost every post, and a promise to challenge people they don't agree with whenever they want, (and obviously however they want).

Yes. I jumped into this late but the reason I posed was in support of the above bolded. Nothing says rational, non-angry poster like when he said "I'm going to challenge you angry folks whenever I feel like" That is someone who is not confrontational AT ALL(obviously sarcasm there)

To the fact Terry Pegula warrants discussion and some of us want to take part in that discussion. It certainly is.

I will be the third person in. The other poster that you describe at least started with rational points and to me looked like they were open to discussion. You and Trip 65 seem more like you want to resort to sarcasm and shouting first with others how disagree with you and pass right over the rational discussion. I can personally deal with things escalating between posters. It does bother me when the jump to shouting and insults and sarcasm happens before the rational discussion runs it course.

We talk quite a bit about Terry Pegula and he deserves all the discussion he gets on this forum.

I do not think he is pitiful in his own zone. He at least holds his position and doesn't leave his zone that much. He may not be a good man-to-man defender but he plays effective zone coverage with is size and reach. I have not noticed him overstaying his shift and being on the ice too long, but I will keep an eye out for that. Its something that may very well happen and has an impact that I just haven't noticed yet.

It might be, probably would be. But keeping him in the lineup, at the moment, is hurting this team. I'm not sure what the answer is other than, He plays despite being a liability without the puck and not scoring.

The above would be nice, but it isn't getting much in return. Cozens with what a team has to pay him has very little trade value. Krebs is basically a journeyman or borderline NHL/AHL player so he has little value. Rosen might be a good middle six winger in the future, but he isn't now and that isn't a guarantee so he has little value. So to other teams, all 3 of those have little to no value (the $7m per year that comes with Cozens may be a negative to other teams. So you are saying give a 1st rounder and a few things of little to no value for a top center? No one is going to do that, especially when you consider how little cap space most of the NHL has and how they simply get Cozens to fit under the cap.

With Quinn have not we been told that he is fully physically healthy? If that is the case then what is the risk of exposing him to waivers or a trade? Are there any other options you can do with him other than having him benched and not playing hockey? I know you don't want to give up on a top 10 pick, but he is hurting this team. Its not just this year, his career numbers equate to a 16 goal guy with 24 assists per 82. He is starting to get an injury history. He has regressed from those numbers. He isn't a playmaker. He isn't physical. He seems to be the 2nd worst forward on this team in terms of making away from the puck mistakes next to only Dylan Cozens. I do not have any ideas, the team is limited with options. But at this point putting him out there game after game isn't good, and benching him and making him sit in the pressbox doesn't help him get better either. I really think Pegula is a huge fan of Cozens. I think taking him out of the lineup or demoting him would not sit well with the King above.

Maybe it comes from above? Pegula or Adams, or both, Really like Cozens and want to see him put out there all the time.

To do what? I am not quite sure what you are thinking. Firing Adams and promoting from within changes very little.

Ruff is really the only new voice in the room. All the other guys, Karmanos, Venture, all of them. They all have had input into the current roster and they way things are done here. The only voice in the room I would trust maybe is Ruff. Keep any of those other guys and you may as well keep Adams also.

No, not at all I do not. That is how he got the job and keep his job. Botts got fired for not following the Pegula's orders. Adams knows that. Adams saw that. In no way has he been given keys to the car, in no way, shape, or form. This is not Adams team at all. The Sabres are Adams team less than just about any other team is their GM's team.