GASabresIUFAN

Dahlin and Cozens are locks, Mitts already has 100+ games. Samuelsson and Johnson will both have NHL careers. That's 5. Bryson, Pekar and Laaksonen should all have NHL careers of various duration. That's the 8 I mentioned previously. UPL (2018 OHL Goalie of the year and MVP) and Portillo (USHL goalie of the year in 2019-20) are both tracking toward NHL careers as well. That's 10. The longer shots are Rousek (think 4th line Energy play who kills penalties and adds some scoring), Weissbach (3 strong years as Wis) and Davidsson (kind of a lesser Asplund). Jbot goes even 8 for 18 that will be a huge performance relative to his predecessor, but 11 or more is reasonably possible.

He is my top 20 players in the pipeline 1. Cozens 2. Quinn 3. Mittelstadt 4. Thompson 5. UPL 6. Routsalainen 7. Peterka 8. Samuelsson 9. Johnson 10. Asplund 11. Laaksonen 12. Bryson 13. Pekar 14. Portillo 15. Murray 16. Borgen 17. Weissbach 18. Davidsson 19. Huglen 20. Rousek Others Fitzgerald, Biro, Johansson (aged out), DiPietro, Cedarqvist, Cronholm, and Costantini

Colin White (with Boeser & Konecny also still on the board), Roslovic (with Beauvillier still available), Eric Cernak, and Jeremy Roy (with Fischer, Aho, Carlo, and Dermott all available) Still had we come away with White, Cernak and Roslovic as drafted, we'd be much better off then we are now. Coburn was a Trashers pick. TB had no 1st in 2015 and failed on both seconds, but unlike us, they got Cirelli in the 3rd. I'd say their happy. I notice you left off Carlo for the Bruins and last I looked Debrusk is a pretty good player. They went 2 for 5, not great, but a top 4 D and a top 6 forward is certainly helping them. All we have to show is the no brainer pick in Eichel. We entered 2015 with 3 1sts and 3 2nds and walked away with only Eichel.

Except that the year we needed those picks is the year he flung them away as if they were worthless. You simply don't trade away 4 top 2 round picks in the deepest draft in decades. Keeping those picks would have likely changed the course of this franchise long-term. Simply saying he gave away as many as he acquired is not the whole story. Keeping those picks would have likely allowed a proper rebuild of this team, with good depth and a reasonable and manageable payroll.

I think our best hope is for UPL to do a Carter Hart. Play great in the AHL and force his way into the NHL years ahead of alleged schedule.

Here is the Sabres roster and where they were drafted 1st overall - Hall and Dahlin 2nd overall - Eichel, Reinhart and Staal 7th overall - Skinner, Okposo and Cozens 8th overall - Ristolainen and Mittelstadt 14th - Girgensons 17th - Lazar 26th - Thompson 29th - Jokiharju 44th - McCabe 55th - Montour 85th - Eakin 114th - Rieder 151st - Miller 162nd - Davidsson 163rd - Ullmark 181st - Olofsson Undrafted - Hutton, Irwin 14 1st rd picks (5 top 2, and 10 top 10), 2 2nd rd picks, 1 3rd, 1 4th, 15th, 2 6th, 1 7th and 2 undrafted. Only 10 of the 24 listed were drafted by the Sabres including Cozens and Mitts ho may not make the team this winter.

Actually Jbot only traded away 1 st and 2 2nds, while acquiring 2 1sts and a 2nd. Jbot ultimately swapped many 3rd rd picks for 4th rd picks. It's TM who traded away a ton of top picks including 2 1sts in the deep 2015 draft and 5 2nd rd picks. TM acquired some of the picks at the tail end of the tank, but trading away 2 1st rd picks and 2 2nd rd picks in 2015 will haunt this franchise forever. He cost us an opportunity to draft Colin White, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Anthony Beauvillier, in the first and Sebastian Aho, Brandon Carlo. MacKenzie Blackwood and Eric Cernak in the second. Colin White and Eric Cernak were actually drafted with our former picks.

"That matter" What does that mean? Top 6, Top 9, plays 100+ games? plays 300+ games, is traded like Nylander for a great asset? What does "that matter" mean if anything? Is Girgensons a pick that matters? He has played 489 games for the Sabres but mostly in a bottom 6 role. Were Mike Weber or Andrew Peters picks that matter? Building a team is not only drafting top 6 forwards or top 4 D, is about building depth in your organization so that you can have next man up like Pitt had and Carolina has created now so that as players move on you have someone ready to step in. If Bryson becomes a 3rd pairing D that ends up playing for us for 3-4 seasons, that is a pick that matters. If UPL develops into a starter and Portillo becomes his backup, both those picks matter. If Rousek and Pekar become our energy line for a few years or more, like Girgensons and Larsson, they matter also.

I really like this definition and is something I've argued for a long time. It's a more accurate view of the pipeline then eliminating a player not in the NHL simply on games played. Not a surprise we are ranked high when Dahlin, Jokiharju, Thompson and Mitts are added back in.

Sadly they don't list him anymore because he has played 100 NHL games.

Well said, except I don't think Mitts is going to fail. I think he'll be one of the big surprises this winter and spring. I know people gave Jbot much crap for drafting D, but isn't it nice to gave 6 decent to very good D prospects in our system right now? I wonder if Murray will build on last season and how Pekar will fare in his first pro season. If those two do well, we are looking at what you predicted.

Jbot drafted 18 players. You could have as many as 5 players from year 1, 3 from year 2 including Pekar, 4 or 5 from year 3 depending if Huglen develops. I think 8 of the 12 have a very good shot at being NHL players or are already NHLers including Dahlin, Cozens, Mitts, Samuelsson, Johnson, Pekar, Bryson and Laaksonnen. Add at least one of the 2 goalies and that's averaging 3 players per draft. TM and DR didn't come close. However, it will be years before we know for sure.

You never read the entire post. I said: And then enumerated all the bad drafting, poor trade decisions and poor development decisions that destroyed our prospect pool

While I agree about Rossi, his definition isn't broad enough. Because Mitts and Thompson played over 100 games they aren't considered prospect in his world. Where would we be with both back on his list? They should be. Both are under 23 and not in the NHL. The 100 games cut off is BS in my humble opinion as each prospect develops differently. If they had 200 games in the AHL, they still be prospects and that is way more pro experience. That said the Sabres have drafted poorly for years. TM and DR did a terrible job. We can't fully evaluate JB yet as most of his kids are still developing, but many criticize his over drafting of D; although the prior administrations didn't draft many D at all except 2013. We have nothing for 2016 so far, Eichel from 2015, and Reinhart and VO from 2014. That 3 players so far from 3 drafts. Awful, especially with 2 of the 3 being 2nd overall picks. Compound with trading of many of the extra picks and why is it surprising that we have so little depth. Out of TM's 5 2nd rd picks the Sabres don't have a single player. 1 of the 5 are NHL players but of course TM traded him away. Also DR failed. In 2010 all we had was Pysyk out of 9 picks. 2011 Armia (also traded before he developed) and that's it from 6 picks. 2012 was a success sort of in that we drafted 4 NHL players, and 3 made a depth impact on the Sabres in McCabe, Girgensons and Ullmark, but none is a star by any stretch of the imagination and we nearly destroyed the 4th player in Grigorenko (TM also trade him away). 2013 was a similar story, 3 players all at the top of the draft, but 2 traded away before they developed and only Risto was kept. Between poor development, poor drafting and foolish trades, is it really a surprise this team is mired in failure?

I left Marty Brodeur off. Opps I have posted new polls for the H's - Some really tough choices Also I placed Imlach & Iginla for the I's, didn't think their would be much debate there.

Briere is leading on the Sabres Bs and in an upset so far the Bobbies (Orr and Hull) have surpassed Bowman so far. I'll wait a few more votes Also I think for the H's Housley and Howe? or Hawerchuk and Howe? I and J I'm kind of at a loss.

No but it does provide position data. As of right now we have 3 LHDs - Dahlin, McCabe and Davidson and 5 RHD - Risto, Montour, Jokiharju, Miller and Irwin. That’s your depth chart. If the season started today odds are that one of Miller Montour or Jokiharju would be moved to the other side. That experiment had limited success with Montour last season and I don’t want to repeat it. The solution is, as I stated before is move one of your 3 well paid RHD and get, in the same or separate deal(s), a LHD. Hopefully saving some cap in the process.

No. Davidson is the LHD according to capfriendly

I’m leaving the B poll up, Since G is now decided, how about H, I and J

He wasn't asking moJo to match career highs, he was asking MoJo to play out of position. Had he got 40 pts out of MoJo he'd have been happy. He was asking both Sheary and Vesey to produce similar to their seasons prior 15-20 goals and 35 pts. None of it happened and that is why he's gone. KA is asking Hall to rebound like Skinner did his first season here and asking a 36 year old center to have one more 40+ pt season in the tank. He is also asking Eakin to rebound to being a 30-35 pt guy. Honestly he is asking alot. The good news here is that Eakin and Staal are being asked to play their natural positions and the ask isn't unreasonable. He is also asking Staal to re-ignite Skinner. Honestly this could all go up in flames just as it did to Jbot. That said, I'm more optimistic then I've been in a while. I'd like to see 4 more moves. An upgrade to Hutton, the move of one of Risto, Montour or Miller, an upgrade of Davidson as the 3rd LHD and a flyer on a young versatile forward like Galchenyuk, Kahun or some other bargain out there. I'd start by trading Hutton for Raanta straight up (cap cost 1.75). I'd then trade Risto to Philly for Robert Hagg and other assets (Cap savings - 3.8) and then I'd sign Kahun for 1.5.

Let’s say all goes well and Hall has a great season. Can we afford to re-sign him? We have about 40 mill committed to 9 players (7F 2D) with Dahlin and Joker as RFAs and Montour, McCabe, Staal and of course Hall as UFAs. Depending on the contracts for VO, Reinhart and Ullmark we could have another 13 mill added to the 40 mill or up to another 3 players to re-sign. Sounds like chaos, but do we want to invest 35 mill on 4 forwards (Eichel, Reinhart, Hall and Skinner) plus Dahlin and KO still here?

Didn’t Jbot buy goals as well? Sheary (23 goal career high) Vesey (3 seasons 16+ goals), Johansson (24 goal career high and a career .55 p/gp player) and Skinner. It didn’t work for the reasons that we have discussed, but no guarantees this time either. After all Eakin is in a similar position Sheary and Johansson were when we acquired them (coming off down years), Staal is 36 and Hall is now on his 4th team and left Edm after not finding chemistry with McDavid. I like what KA has done so far, but we need improvement in goal if this is going to work.

I’ve added a poll to decide on the B’s

Truth be told, the Braves were treated as a 3rd class citizen behind the Sabres and Canisus basketball back then. However, they has a chance to be great. They had Randy Smith, McAdoo, Kaufmann and then drafted Adrian Dantley and had Moses Malone (for 2 games until they traded him). Can you imagine a starting 5 of Dantley, McAdoo, Malone, Kaufmann and Randy Smith. Wow! Thanks Snyder and John W Brown. I've hated the NBA ever since.

We still haven't decided conclusively on the first group, but your G's are good.