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Actually he received votes 4 times and finished 7th, 10th, 12th and 15th. Not exactly in contention for the award. He out-pointed Langway in 1983 (38 to 32) and didn’t receive a single Norris vote.

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-defenseman-rasmus-dahlin-named-nhl-1st-star-of-week-october-24-2022-goal-streak/c-336740150

Well here is the Norris history post Bobby Orr. (Orr won 8 straight and finished 1st in scoring the last 7, he missed half the season with injury the 1st time he won). 46 times the award has been given out (2005 no award) since Orr last won in 1975. In 32 seasons the winner was 1st (20) or 2nd (12) in D scoring. 8 more times the player finished in the top 5 in D scoring. The 6 times the winner finished outside the top 5: 2016 - Doughty finished 10th (51pts), 2009 - Chara finished 12th (50 pts), 1998 - Blake finished 8th (50 pts), 1993 - Chelios finished 9th (73pts). Only Rod Langway won without scoring 50 or more points in a full season. In 1984 he has 33 pts (44th) and in 1983 he had 32 pts (46th). The last 4 years the guy who finished 2nd in points won the award. Lidstrom won the award 6 times and finished 1 (3), 2, 3, & 5th in D scoring the years he won. Bottomline to win this award you need to be in the top 2 in D scoring and it helps to be on a top Cup contender.

But both were among the top scoring D. Guys like Pronger, Carlyle, Wilson etc all won the year they were near or at the top of the of the D scoring. I don’t remember stellar D oriented D like Mike Ramsey ever being considered for the Norris. My guess is Rod Langway is the only Norris winner since expansion to win without putting up at least 40 points.

I agree and that should scare the crap out of our opponents. We are rolling 4 lines right now, but really only 3 have made much of a scoring impact. I think once Quinn and or Krebs figure it out, we could be seeing a very similar team to that great 05/06 team where we sent wave after wave against our opponents with stunning results.

Never. Only non-hi-scoring D that I can remember winning the thing was Rod Langway.

When I say injury fill in I mean a few games here and there. If he has to be in the lineup for 20 straight we will regret it. Schenn certainly wanted a “guaranteed” roster spot. Who doesn’t. However he signed an 850K contract, which implies to me there wasn’t exactly a bidding war for his services. Might he have signed here on a two year $1 mill per season deal to be the 7th guy and mentor to the young guys? I think he might have, but we’ll never know if KA even made an offer. He targeted Lyubushkin and seems content with Fitz in the 7/8 spot. That said I thought and still think we need a upgrade over Fitz. Now if Mule is our for a very extended period, I believe he needs to start working the phones to see what’s available and at what price.

This thread deteriorated fast.

What patience with prospects? Perish the thought. Who are you and what have you done with @Buffalonill.

If Mogilny made the cut, how far behind can Andreychuk be? Hawerchuk is now certainly on the list soon. What about Housley? Isn’t he the early prototype for this era’s offensive defensemen? He’s 2nd behind Modano in points by a US born player. (Brett Hull saw born in Belleville Ont). He is also 4th all-time for D in points and goals behind only Bourque, Coffey and Macinnis. That’s pretty elite company.

I went back to last season to see if we could see this breakout by Dahlin coming and the answer is kinda of. Dahlin really had a pretty balanced season last year. He scored at least one point in 37 games and that was pretty evenly divided in each quarter of the season, 9, 10, 9 and 9 games respectively. His points were also pretty evenly divided by quarter 12, 14, 11, & 16. Where the starkest contrast came is Dahlin’s influence on team’s ability to win games. In games Dahlin scored during the entire season the team was a sparkling 18-12-7 (a 95 pt pace), but most of that success came in the second half of the season. In the first half, the Sabres went 7-12-2 (.76 pts per game) in games without Dahlin scoring and 5-9-5 (.79) in games he did. A difference, but only a very slight one. However, in the second half, the Sabres were a terrible 6-14-2 (.64) in games without a Dahlin point but an amazing 13-3-2 (1.6) in games Dahlin had a least one point. This trend exploded in the last quarter when the Sabres went 8-0-1 (1.9) in games Dahlin posted at least a point but only 3-6-2 (.73) in games he didn’t. Obviously the Sabres as a team were better in the second half, but the win/loss stats seem to confirm the eye test that Dahlin’s all around game and his influence on the Sabres ability to win took off in the second half of the season and that he has carried that influence into the new season.

Any news on the extent of the injury?

I have no Italian grandparents, but I’ve known the Billittier family all my life.

RedZone It's been a long weekend. No Bulldawgs No Bills. I've had to decorate for Halloween

Also he was eligible to be sent down without clearing waivers.

I honestly hope Jack thrives in LV and they miss the playoffs. How can a guy dating his college GF from Buffalo and who likes Chef’s be all that bad? Still I’d rather have Tuch.

Actually we don’t. Quinn has the skills to score 40 goals in the league. Our best snipers on wing are Skinner and VO and they are 30 goal type guys. VO is also likely gone after next season and Skinner is now on the wrong side of 30. I can accept that Krebs could be expendable with skilled playmakers like Mitts and Tuch already here and guys like Östlund in the system, but KA is a value oriented GM. The Lyubuskin and Comrie deals illustrate his approach. He has yet to trade any high end young player. It’s much more likely he’d trade Clague and a 2nd next season to add a depth NHL RHD on a shorter term deal. It’s why I mentioned Myers. Here is how I envision a Myers deal might work. Van needs cap relief. We’d trade them Clague and a 2nd for Myers and a 4th with us taking Myers entire contract. Myers steps into the mentor role for Powers like Tallinder did for him. KA could them trade Bishop’s contract to a team desperate for cap relief for other assets. Obviously you don’t make this deal if Samuelsson is only out a few weeks, but if it’s months, a deal like this could become a necessity.

I hope so, but he is a left side puck mover, not exactly known for his D zone work.

No, but his injury, long or short term, is making crystal clear how little depth we have at RHD. I wrote in the off-season that KA should acquire two proven RHD as I had seen enough of Fitz to believe that he is at best an injury fill in. KA signed Lyubushkin and kept Fitz as the 4th right side D. I would have signed someone like Schenn instead and let Fitz anchor a pair in Rochester to protect UPL.

Wow! First Quinn is a friggin 20 year old rookie who tore up the A last year. Tossing him after 4 total NHL is just silly. I understand the Krebs thinking a little more. After all you have to give to get and the depth in our organization is in players with his general skill set. That said he is only 21 and has yet to even play 70 NHL games. As we saw TNT and now Mitts and Cozens it takes time for even high skill guys to blossom in the NHL. JJP has made some fine plays so far, but also some terrible ones. This is what rookies do. You need more patience. We have plenty of other guys to carry the load as they learn the ropes and they will. DG is proving time and again he knows how to get the most from his players. I’d like to a RHD added as well, but KA isn’t moving one of these guys to do it.

Our excellent 4-1-0 start has come a quite a huge cost. 50% of our top 4 D entering the season are now out for what looks like extended periods. Jokiharju is already on IR and Samuelsson, although early reports say he escaped catastrophic injury, could also be month to month with something like an ACL sprain. Hopefully he (and we) get even better news and he is only out a few weeks. If he is out an extended period, is riding Pilut, Fitz, Bryson and Lyubushkin good enough? My gut reaction is it’s not. I like Bryson and Lyubushkin as a 3rd pair ok, but elevating either of them into the top 4 is a recipe for trouble. Putting AAAA Fitzgerald and the unknown Pilut in a position for major PT seems even worse. I think how KA handles this is going to his first real test of his GM skills in this new Era of Sabres hockey. He clearly has an emerging offensive juggernaut that can roll 4 very effective lines that can play against anyone in all situations. The continued growth of Cozens and Mitts as dangerous 2 way players is creating huge matchup problems for our opponents. The Comrie/Anderson tandem is playing lights out. So how KA supports this team in season in the face of these key defensive injuries could make the difference between making the playoffs or not. I’m not advocating making any trades today. Obviously KA needs to know the extent of both Joki and Mules’ injuries and it’s also reasonable to see if our 7/8 guys Fitz and Pilut can step up their games to take the pressure off KA to make a quick move. That said, KA needs to get on the phone and see who might be available and at what price. For example, the Van fire sale is about to begin. They could easily make Schenn or Myers available. While neither is ideal, both are RHD and are capable of being effective players in the correct role, Schenn as a 3rd pair stay at home D, Myers as a veteran 2nd pair. Myers has this year and next at 6 mill. Schenn is at $850K for this season and has playoff experience with TB.

With a 1st and 3 2nd rd picks next year, I suspect we’ll add at least 2 D with those 4 picks. As to another RHD, I wanted a couple in the last 2 drafts. However, I’m inclined with @Taro T to think that that guy will come from outside the organization right now. I hear Vancouver is about to start a fire sale.

Ryan Miller visited the team after the game.

Lance said in Twitter that Mule avoided the worst. I assume this means on ACL or MCL damage