Thorny

It’s funny cause we were literally saying around here a short year ago that we’d have the 05/06 “run 4 lines” set up comps to that team assuredly need to be barred until further notice

So dark..you sure you’re not from the DC universe?

If we can’t find a way to score another goal today, we are mathematically eliminated

Considering our goaltending “all set” for next year remains a likely mistake

My friend who’s a big flyers fan says they were young and ahead of schedule this year and have collapsed because their GT fell apart through overuse

People are definitely still doing the playoffs scenarios thing on twitter still

HEART

Things have sucked, and will suck, until they don’t. That’s it. That’s where we’re at. There’s no lower. We just are. We are the Buffalo Sabres.

So if we had removed Jeff skinner last season, we’d have been better? a top goal scorer in the league last year and you are claiming him to be a sizeable! net negative. To the tune of almost single handedly turning franchises around for the worse, which we know players in the nhl don’t do (nor for the better). something doesn’t jive. He either provided a ton of positive value last year or didn’t. There was a magical barrier stopping us from seizing one final point cause Jeff Skinner was here? none of it makes sense

Situation last year was the same with us needing to reel off a bunch of games in a row (we just nearly did it last year). It was still a situation where we left ourselves almost no room for error and our 8-2-1 finish or whatever it was wasn’t enough they aren’t crashing in key games, they are crashing in too many games *all season*. It’s a consistency issue, an overall output issue, not a “specifically plays bad in big games” issue. We’ve had like 20 “big games” in a row where we’ve said we needed to win like 16

It’s a matter of perspective Saying we have “crumbled” in the “playoff push” is a complete misreading of the situation. The real issue is that it wasn’t really a “playoff push” at all, the pace we needed to play at was ridiculous thus falling short isnt “crumbling” at all. The issue was by far the inconsistency over the course of the full season. We aren’t playing poorly in “must win” games we’ve just left ourselves zero margin for error. The Sabres have played at a playoff pace during the last couple months of the season, they haven’t “crumbled”, they just aren’t good enough overall. I mean, ya Coaches get changed because their message gets stale. Their particular strategy. Their X’s and O’s and the buttons they push. If the message that isn’t getting through is, “the score gets tabulated in the first period, too” that’s a PLAYER ISSUE

I’m honestly not so set on hardcore line designations. A “third liner” doesn’t have to be in a specific mold. What makes Savoie a better fit in the top 12 than Skinner? You actually think a rookie Savoie will provide more for the team than Jeff Skinner? The dude was the toast of the town 12 months ago. He’s still 3rd in goals and the entire team has a down year and now we want to replace him with a child And then have the gall to scream “youngest team in da league!” When we miss. Come on now

Lol I’ll be sure to ask him next time we meet up for a beer it’s surprising to me that, being among the 2 or 3 most vocal posters in every game day thread about how disappointing this franchise is, that you are among the biggest proponents of the “run it back” strategy. Change the coach, and 1 fixes the output of 20. Maybe.

It’s kind of funny that after all these years “job 1” is still, apparently, moving our highest producers off the roster. The eternal cycle. That’s roster deconstruction. Still in development mode. Maybe we are.

“Undoubtedly better” is sort of the key phrase. Maybe not many? But reasonable doubt if that’s the barometer (me and dudacek were having this discussion the other day) goes both ways: can’t say Levi is definitely better than the lion’s share, either. He’s still very unproven. That’s why I have interest in bringing in a competent vet on a one year if it can be had, who, to your point, assuredly isn’t undoubtedly better than Levi but at least provides an obstacle to him seizing of the crease and a failsafe for our goaltending bet. Some strength through competition that doesn’t bleed over into a 3 headed goalie monster with a third guy better than Comrie. Which, to my point, shouldn’t be hard to find. But, again, competition isn’t really the name of the game with Adams it’s not blocking. I don’t see why they’d provide a block to Levi seizing the backup role

Levi proving he’s too good for the AHL doesn’t prove NHL readiness just fyi ”no need” for him isn’t the same as the sabres needs, necessarily I understand no one believed it was possible Levi wouldn’t be Patrick Roy out the gate; and no one believes it’s possible there could be a vet out there who could he better than Levi as a backup next year. I do think it’s possible to acquire a competent vet backup, but I understand Adams has no intention of doing anything other than doubling down on Levi being ready again So I do expect a UPL / Levi tandem to start

“Negated in bensons second year” You aren’t keeping up with the argument. The discussion was more Benson-like production, at best, from Savoie, not actual Benson-next-season as the conversation was Skinner benched for Savoie I don’t agree re: the intangibles. I see Skinner draw way more penalties and Benson take a few more. Point 3 is erroneous. Those teams aren’t missing because Skinner is on them. This argument should have died with Eichel, I don’t even think it should be humoured at this point. Skinner is better than the 12th forward on every team that has ever won the cup. To say he’s the reason his teams haven’t made the playoffs is a non-sensical argument

Have you counted all the times Benson fell over because he’s 16 years old and the opposing player merely took the puck? I’ve seen him get outmuscled a ton. The dude is not without faults I never harp on them because he’s a rookie and he’s been above expectations. That would be dumb. But if the comparison is a genuine nhl goal scorer in skinner we are getting out of hand. Skinner aids more in the pursuit of winning a game today than Benson

There’s a fair bit of relativity going into the perception of Benson. Like he’s 225th in scoring for forwards this year. Like yes obviously he’s a rookie, and sky is the limit. He looks super promising. But RIGHT NOW he’s not a top 6 player (at least not an average one) so penciling him to our top 6 next year while I get, like im not clamouring to add a bunch of other guys with 28 points who sit around 225th to my lineup for next year, which would be what we’d get from someone like Savoie at BEST. Like it would be an okay option (?) I suppose, but someone that could provide more, or provide the defensive value/grit other aspects we could use more of in the group without sacrificing that ~25-30 points that a rookie would probably provide, would be the preferred option in a year not focused on development and the long game

No need to include “but” after that small sample size declaration. It’s just, full stop, too small a sample size to tout as any sort of argument. A lot of what Skinner does isn’t even counted: we have to think about his penalty differential, the value he provides in the calls he draws: last I checked he’s always near the top of the league in this category. Anyways, Benson has 9 goals this season. He didn’t contribute to winning to the extent Skinner did. Benson was good, for a rookie. You can ask any advanced stats guy on twitter and they’ll tell you the same - ask Chad haha he’ll give a better answer than me and if I’m wrong I’ll happily admit it

Hard to say. Definitely would have helped. And the PP, too. Probably not but you never know. I don’t really buy this becoming-increasingly-convenient, one size fits all “it’s all Granato’s fault!” Narrative we are seeing being developed in real time. Thus necessitating Kane being unable to make a difference. Byram regressed from his early games because the early games had unsustainable positive regression. Post trade bump. Perhaps things have settled in to bad again because, I dunno, Casey Mittelstadt was one of our best players and Byram at least doesn’t more than account for that loss? We are the same team or worse after the deal, probably. Prospects/Picks out, talent in would help the most. That’s what the summer is for

Haha we are just so philosophically different on this our takes are going to be very far apart. “They have all these prospects, have to let them play” is assuredly NOT the stance I have regarding this team. My stance would be more along the lines of “we have all of these prospects that CAN’T possibly all play, the precise benefit of that is to use some as currency.” That’s the true value. Benson has gone through long, long stretches this season where he’s been invisible, never mind one of our best players. That he’s overall been one of our better forwards is a reflection of why we aren’t going to make the playoffs not a statement towards the fact we need to add another Benson level (at best) output for next season. It also makes no sense to lump JJP and Benson together in this consideration as their development cycles are quite a ways apart. You get that Skinner added *significantly* more value in the now towards winning than Benson did, right? Benson is just the sexier name because your position is still somewhat greased by the implications of these players’ future potential. RIGHT NOW Skinner is better than Benson and it is not close.

Imagine if we didn’t come from behind in the final 10 seconds of regulation against Minnesota and dropped those 2 points instead? Gordon Bombay

To be honest I’m not in too much of a rush to get anything down in ink when the consideration is a team that’s going to finish between 22nd and 24th place, with points in the mid 80s (As likely as I think it is we are indeed stuck with the top 6 we’ve got.) That second line could be really good, I think. Your projected lineup is a little too ea sports nhl for my liking though re: plug and play more youth. 2 more rookies? The floor is just so low, there. And what’s the ceiling we can really expect? Benson has been great (for a rookie) and he’s going to notch what, 30 points? And those guys likely won’t even be Benson. The “for a rookie” thing is probably the most important bit. Especially because we are bumping, checks notes, our 3rd leading goal scorer out of the lineup to do it? I understand his deal sucks but essentially moving Skinner out for a rookie Savoie is not in a realistic stratosphere for a team that absolutely needs to make the playoffs. That looks like we are literally running a development factory. I like the idea of two vet adds like Jenner and Carrier. Byram on top pair makes me pretty nervous and uncomfortable. It’s funny that they sort of trade for these players with a singular pigeonholed role in mind and get into trouble when they don’t fit it. Every farmer and their mom knew we needed a RIGHT SHOT D. Oh well, at least Byram still shows flashes and he’s young. On a second pair he could be dynamic in the future. I expect UPL/Levi but wouldn’t be what I would do, id look to bring in a more proven vet to backup.