JJFIVEOH

No, not you. I enjoy talking to you whether we agree or not. ;)

No, not really. You guys really are being defensive and condescending. I tried to keep it civilized until the mockery started coming in. At some point it just gets to where it's not worth keeping up on the thread any longer. How did Schneider get the chance to show he could be the starter? Because his coach gave him the opportunity more than once every 3 weeks. Luongo is not a fan favorite which I think plays a major role in his trade status. What's going to happen in 2 years if we find out Miller really doesn't want to be in BFLO and has absolutely no plans to stay with the Sabres? Going to thrust Enroth into the starting spot or give him ample time to prove he can or can't do it before it's too late. I made this point in an earlier post...... how did Philly going after an 'elite' goaltender help them last year compared to the previous year when they relied on an AHL'er? How did the 'elite' goaltender work out for Pittsburgh? I can't see FL going after Luongo, I really don't. I give Tallon too much credit and the only reason he's rumored to come here is because he had issues with management in the past and they are no longer here. FL has Markstrom coming up and probably ready to play this year. The combo of Theodore/Clemmensen last year certainly didn't hurt their year, they were an extremely consistent duo. And Dineen usually sat who wasn't playing well (something Lindy might need to learn).

So when there's talk, without facts, about Derek Roy being a locker room cancer everybody jumps on the bandwagon and posts pictures of his metrosexual extravaganzas. But when there's talk, without facts (even though his interviews are pretty damn clear) about Miller being a locker room cancer then it's simply called a conspiracy theory. Holy ###### you people can get defensive when you don't like somebody's opinion. Now I remember why I don't start threads on here, and when I reply to others I usually take a week before I reply again because y'all are some bitter condescending pricks.

He does it all the time!! He critiques every single game! He'll mention when his D doesn't play well, he'll mention when the power play didn't step up, he'll mention when the forwards need to create better chance!. All of which I LOVE that he does but there is one problem............ HE IS NEVER THE PROBLEM! If he lets in a couple of soft goals while the rest of the team kicked ass the only thing he has to say is ' Well, ya know, WE played pretty good, ya know, good enough to, ya know, win the, ya know, game.......'. Whenever the team lets him down to Miller it's always their fault, but whenever they lose because Miller let's in a couple of soft goals it's 'WE' and not 'ME'.

Or perhaps the inability to recognize the obvious.

Because many teams are willing to give a one hit wonder another chance with 'different scenery'. Especially teams that need to pad their cap hit. When there's another so called "elite' on the market that may of interest to another team, would you choose the one with 2 years left on their contract or 8? Really? How many rounds did Philly go with an AHL goaltender as opposed to when they picked up an 'elite' goaltender with a massive contract? That didn't turn out so hot last year. How did Pittsburgh make out last year with a goaltender with an 'elite' contract? Fleury is probably even more overrated than Miller and probably would have won that series with an average goaltender and they used that extra $$ to shore up their defense. No. You're wrong. Too bad he's the only one with the balls to say it. Did you happen to notice that Miller actually took the blame for a couple of losses (although VERY reluctantly) right after that was said?

So when exactly should he be thrust into a starting job? When do starting goaltenders get their chance? Do the backups' starters just sit back and say 'Hey, I'll ride the bench for a while so he can get a shot......'. :doh:

Double standard? The only double standard I see is how people whine about the "core" never getting it done yet Miller seems to get a pass. Tell me, how can anybody expect Enroth to put up big numbers and steal games when he only plays once every 3 weeks? Option of an equal quality goaltender? I would have taken Vokoun in a heartbeat last year for $2 mil over Miller. Hell, I would have taken Vokoun in a heartbeat at Miller's salary. Let's face it, if Miller didn't have a one hit year he wouldn't be where he is now. But for some reason because he came up big in the Olympics and his Vezina year people seem to think he's a hall of fame caliber goaltender and they treat him accordingly (including the front LR and DR which makes it even worse!) I'm sick of the Golden Boy treatment he gets.

Or the Concept of Ryan Miller. The concept states that just because Miller has an Olympic MVP and Vezina trophy he is and always will be the best goaltender in the NHL. There is nobody anybody would rather have in net to win them games than Ryan Miller. Even though his attitude sucks and his numbers barely make him an average goaltender. But hey, he's making 6+ mil a year so he must be that good. This is probably the fourth time you've mentioned this on this thread. Just trying to pad your post count or do you plan to back up your words eventually? :P

But there's one really big difference that pretty much negates your point. Enroth backed up his kick ass rookie year that got us to the playoffs with an even better year statistically. Nothing much he can do about his W-L record last year when the rest of the team sucks around him. Well then maybe he shouldn't have been playing. Enroth played out of his mind and in a contract year (so I'm guessing you are immplying he purposely played better to make money?) So what does it mean when he put up even better stats AFTER he got his contract and AFTER other teams had him figured out. And once Miller came back the team scored a total of 12 goals in 8 games for Enroth and he wasn't playing with a healthy team in front of him. Miller just happened to get better when the team got healthy. How many game did Enroth play from February on after the team broke out of their funk? Excellent points.

Miller had the benefit of a healthy lineup and a surging team. It took that incredible run he made JUST to get up to Enroth's save % and still end up with another average year. Enroth was a game changer when he had a healthy lineup in front of him too............. remember the playoff run two years ago?

If you say so. I can't wait for the 'I told you so.....................'. :rolleyes: :P Quick question, with all the guidelines, rules, medical clearances, extensive tests.................. how could Miller have come back too early from a concussion? How could he have had a concussion from taking a shot to the head and be right back out there playing? Can't anybody connect the dots and see that he uses that as an excuse until he starts playing well? We have Enroth who finished with better numbers than Miller, why was Miller starting when he wasn't up to par? Funny, these 'post concussion' issues never seem to pop up until after the fact; but the doctors let him play?

You need to watch some other games from now on besides just the Sabres.

Maybe not one for one, but he sure could be used as the key component to get an all star forward. Would you rather give up Myers or one of our first round picks? Luongo is grossly overpaid and highly overrated, he's still being rumored to get traded. There are plenty of teams willing to dish out big $$ for a couple of years because they have the room. The fact Miller only has 2 years left on his contract is appealing to teams in that they may not have to deal with it in two years...... as opposed to Luongo who has 63 years left on his. I've been seeing a lot of posts where people think the Sabres are playing to be contenders in a couple of years, no immediately. Boy, that sure would suck when we come to find out Miller really doesn't want to be in BFLO and he doesn't re-sign with the team when he becomes a UFA and end up getting absolutely nothing in return..... all because we kept him for a couple of years when people didn't think DR was trying to build an overnight contender.

He doesn't bail anybody out any more than the rest of the goaltenders in the league. With the exception of maybe St. Louis, most goaltenders are put on the spot. There were plenty of games during the season where Miller was flat out awful and could have won had he played a few "average" games. Did he step up at the end of the season? Sure he did. But his first half of the year was so terrible that even the tear he went on at the end of the season could only muster an average season overall. Disagree with me all you want, but with the improvements that have been made to this team, using Miller to pick up an all star forward would give this team a huge jump and the Sabres wouldn't have to rely on a goaltender. Seriously........... Myers or Miller as trade bait for an all star forward? Can you honestly tell me you'd rather get rid of Myers over Miller to pick up an all-star forward? Let's go back to around mid-season and see what people were saying about Miller. Let's go back to earlier in the season when everybody was saying nobody wanted to stick up for Miller when he get pummeled by Lucic. Let's go back and look at the excitement and the extra jump in the team when Enroth carried us to the playoffs.

Stafford praised his coach highly at the end of the season. Yet everybody accuses him of being a core cancer. So what's your point? I have a question for you, what point are you trying to get across to me by capitalizing your one statement? Did I say otherwise? No..... in fact I mentioned a couple of times where I liked the fact that Miller points out who did wrong after almost every single game, did I not? It's the fact that nobody else has the nads to do the same to Miller.

I don't have any facts. I mentioned that in my OP. Does anybody have any facts that Roy was a cancer in the locker room? Or does everybody just go on some rumor that a certain player on the team said he's bad in the locker room? The fact that everybody kisses Miller's ass should be proof enough that they're afraid to do or say anything bad. If I were in the locker room and he called me out in a post game interview, I'd have a little talk with him. If he's going to call me out, I'm going to make sure he'd better be ready for me to call him out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Semin is notorious for only negotiating one year contracts. He doesn't prefer anything longer than that.

I don't think he's that bad, I just don't think he's that great. Doesn't seem to have any real impact on GIonta and St. Louis. What kind of facts do you want? Will post game interviews count because you can listen to the majority of them and get the facts there. If you think I should be providing actual in-depth coverage from within the locker room...... sorry I can't do that. And I did mention that we don't know what goes on in the locker room. I don't want to run him out of town because I think he sucks. I want to use him as trade bait because he could bring in a big name forward. Anaheim won with an average goaltender, Chicago won with an average goaltender, Pittsburgh and Detroit both won with average goaltenders. In fact if you take all of the finalists since the lockout, the majority of those teams got there with average goaltenders. I base it on the fact that when Miller gets into a funk, he stays there for long periods at a time. Then the fans or the team will find some way to place the blame elsewhere. Or........ they'll play Enroth while the team is injured and the Miller fans will say how much Enroth sucks and he can't handle a 60 game schedule. Thank you.

OK............. 2 things: 1) I never implied that Miller wasn't outspoken. I love the fact that he is. I wish more pro athletes spoke up when the rest of their team sucks. Although, it does very little to support his attitude when he cannot accept the same in return. 2) I never implied Quick wasn't a key player in the Kings run. If it wasn't for him they never would have made the playoffs. But, the entire lineup stepped it up for the playoffs big time and I think (IMO) they would have won the Cup without Quick. They were that good.

I didn't say they didn't win the Cup because of Quick, I said they got to the playoffs because of Quick. They disposed of every single opponent so 'quick'ly that they could have done so with an above average goalie. Broduer showed that an 'average' goaltender can get that far without a supporting team. He is far beyond his peak but still got there because he is a tremendous athlete and has the mindset to do so. Comparing Quick to Hasek is like comparing Mogilny to Gretzky. Hasek is without a doubt a freak of nature. There is no way ANYBODY in this day and age can withstand that kind of flexibility as he ages. Maybe I'm wrong. He was without a doubt a superior goaltender. But, I want to see more than a couple of years out of him to compare him to Hasek. NO long term contracted goaltenders have turned out to be withstanding. I give Quick credit, he has the mindset, he has the balls and he is cocky beyond belief. I hope the best for him. But, it hasn't bode well throughout history for long term goalies.

Did the Kings have the lineup during the regular season that the Sabres did had they stayed healthy? Yes, Quick may have carried them to a playoff birth, but the way the entire lineup played I think they would have won regardless. Yes, I agree, they made the playoffs because of Quick, but I want to see him be more than a one hit wonder. People say Enroth isn't made to play 60 games, that we don't know. But Quick had a standout year. Can he continue to play like that? His style leans towards 'no'. There is no way his style can play up to those standards into his 30's. There is a reason Broduer is as good as he is. He may not be as quick as he once was, but he has the technicalities down. He doesn't have to be as acrobatic as Quick to get the job done. Much like Miller. But Broduer has the mindset to get it done....... Miller, not so sure.

Heart and determination often trumps skill and stats. To a point obviously.....................

Yes, I did notice that. Gerbe went balls to the wall even when they hit rock bottom. I don't care how bad or good you are, at his $$ that right there is worth keeping. He is always doing whatever it takes.

Let's get one thing straight. I LOVE the fact these guys are brutally honest. They are grown men, professional athletes making millions of dollars a year. They should be brutally honest. At this level each player should be able to take constructive criticism and hand it out at the same time AND accept it. But, when was the last time you hears any of the team criticize Miller for flat out blowing a game? NEVER. They are afraid to call out the Golden Boy. I've been a pretty good follower of the Panthers for many years and NEVER have I heard a goalie talk about his team the way Miller does. Is it that tough for Miller to say 'It's not my job to critique my team, it's my job to stop pucks....."? How do you know that? 30 posts in 45 minutes, I hardly call it dead. :flirt: I'm on vacation, why you guys taking up all my time? :P