nfreeman

This is all reasonable, but the ROR trade story was written much more quickly, and with much more finality, than the story of the Eichel trade. What if this is by far Tuch’s best season, and Krebs never amounts to more than an energetic fourth liner, and Östlund washes out? Those questions will play out over the next three or four years, as will Jack’s story. While you’re probably right that the Sabres had to trade Eichel, as there was too much water under the bridge, we don’t know for sure that this is the best package they could’ve gotten (although I think it probably was). The better Eichel does going forward, the more pronounced the question will be of whether they should’ve got more for him. More generally, from the Sabres’ perspective, in evaluating the trade, I don’t think it’s realistic to say that there is no difference between Eichel turning into, say, an Auston Mathews level player, as opposed to, say, Pierre Luc Dubois.

Well, for the record, that's not what you said. You said this: ...i.e. that I don't want to see him still playing and playing well at 34/35 -- which is not the case and which is what I objected to. Regardless, the reformulated question about whether I'd prefer to see him prove himself as a top-5 player is admittedly a tough one and kinda pins me down, which is of course the point of spirited discourse like this. I suppose I think that if he is or turns into a good guy and good teammate, I'm fine with him turning into that kind of player, although in that case the evaluation of the trade from the Sabres' perspective would suffer. If he's a demonstrable jerk, though, it would be hard to be happy with him being a fantastic player. Was this confirmed? I thought he was just a space cadet and injury-prone -- I didn't realize he had a substance abuse problem.

This is all fine except the bolded -- I don't wish ill on Jack, and I don't think you should assume, or state, otherwise about me or anyone else who hasn't specifically indicated otherwise. If he has personal failings, which, again, we don't really know, I hope he improves on them and either way I hope he has a good career and a good life. My underlying motivation in all this is to evaluate the Eichel trade. IMHO, to do so, a realistic evaluation of Eichel's current status and overall career is required.

I think Mario and Dominik are close and I could go either way on calling them generational. I'd include Mike Bossy in their category -- as a goal-scorer, he was either generational or pretty GD close IMHO. I don't disagree that Eichel's development track was reasonable, but I do disagree with your view that "8 years" is meaningless/unfair. It's reasonable IMHO as a fan of a team that invested so much in him to want to evaluate his career as a whole -- and, as you've admitted, he's fallen off of the "elite" track in the last 3 years. We can point to Covid, injury, etc., but it all counts, including frequency of injury, adapting to new/bizarre covid circumstances, trade, new coaches, new teammates -- whatever. It all counts and it's all part of his (8-year) body of work. Also, for the record, Jack will turn 27 at the start of next season. I think it's pretty reasonable, if not generous, to assume that after this season his career will be half over. Will that give him a solid 5 years or so in which he very well could prove himself elite again? Absolutely, and I wouldn't be a-tall surprised if he gets there. But after another 8 seasons, he'll be 34 and about to start his age-35 season. It's pretty unlikely that he'll be elite at that point, and reasonably likely, given his injury history, that he'll be broken down and finished or close to it.

I recommend a morning or afternoon strolling around old San Juan, including lunch or brunch. It's really nice and the closest thing to an old European city in the Caribbean IMHO, if you enjoy that sort of thing. Sure seems that way -- but maybe not if he warmed up today?

This is fair and I totally agree that "generational" has become well overused. However, even if we scale expectations back to "elite" -- which I would say is in the ballpark of top-10 NHL player -- Jack has fallen well short of that standard other than in one of his 8 NHL seasons. That shortfall, plus injury frequency, plus DB behavior, plus suffering by comparison with Tuch/Krebs/Östlund/#2 pick equals "I'm glad KA made that move."

I don’t think anyone is giving up a #1 for McCabe, and I definitely don’t want the Sabres to do so.

Yes -- Tuch is a major, and almost unique, weapon on the forecheck. That, combined with very good puck skills (albeit not quite elite) and hockey IQ makes him a fixture on the top line for as long as he has his legs IMHO. We can go back and forth on 80 points, development track, etc. but the fact remains: for a guy who was supposed to be generational, Eichel has been a top-5 NHL player one out of his 8 seasons (and even that one was debatable, although not by me -- I thought he was awesome that year), and well outside the top 20 for the rest of them, including this year. The injuries are very relevant, both in the evaluation of Eichel's career and for that matter in the circumstances surrounding his trade, but either way they are an undeniable fact: he gets hurt a lot, and availability matters. What also matters is attitude. We don't know for sure, of course, but there were plenty of reports, for attribution, from guys close to the team like Hammy and Rivet that Jack was a major DB here. When he started playing for Vegas last year they immediately fell off the table and missed the playoffs, which was a pretty surprising and disappointing outcome. Now, after his return from yet another injury, his new coach in Vegas is publicly unhappy with him. BTW, they got dusted again tonight (in a game in which Jack was a minus-3 with zero points) and have now lost 7 of their last 9. In many cases, talent isn't nearly enough.

BTW, Vegas has lost 6 out of their last 8.

One other point is that given KA's emphasis on team-building and team spirit, it's hard to see them trading much from the NHL roster for an outsider, and then making that outsider the highest-paid or 2nd-highest paid player on the team -- which would be the case if Meier got, say, $8.5MM per year.

FWIW: UPL is 12-3 in his last 15 starts. That's pretty impressive, regardless of how much run support he's gotten.

Certainly we knew more about Hamlin than we do about Kim, but I don't think they ever disclosed exactly what happened, i.e. the diagnosis of the reasons for his cardiac arrest. It's also worth noting that Hamlin appears to have made pretty close to a full recovery in a pretty short period of time. If Kim is impaired, which seems likely, it's only natural that she would want to stay out of the public eye.

Yes indeed. Joki turns 24 this summer, is under contract through next season at a very reasonable $2.5MM per year, and will be an RFA when that contract expires. He's extension-eligible this summer -- so maybe another under-the-radar extension as they did with Muel is in order to secure their top 4 for the foreseeable future? He shouldn't cost too much as he only has 60 pts in 239 career NHL games.

A few game notes: - the 2nd was maybe their best period of the year and until the last 5 min of the 3rd, that was definitely one of their best games of the year. - Joki was excellent. Very smooth and on top of the play in the D-zone, good passing and just a very capable all-around game. I’m pretty close to convinced that he’s their long-term #4. - Dahlin and Power are so freaking good. - Also, as others have noted, Loobie appears healthy and is much improved. - All 4 lines played pretty well. The top line in particular really had it going on the forecheck. - Cozens’ line created a number of good chances that the kids couldn’t cash. They are close and will score more next year. - Rayzor: “Krebs is a wild man.” - Speaking of Rayzor, I think he’s improving at actual hockey analysis. For that matter, I’m enjoying DD’s work too. - @Thorny: glad you got to see that masterpiece in person. - 4 games over DeLuca .500 with 2 tough ones coming up before the break — at Minny and home vs Carolina. A split would be fine. But beating Minny and then coming home to a packed house of rabid baby-eaters looking to punish the Canes and a chance to go into the break at 6 over? Now you’re talking. Go Sabres.

If SJ isn't getting a good roster player in the deal, they are going to insist on a first-rounder this year.

If McCabe wanted to return, I'd happily have him. He turns 30 at the start of next season and is under contract for 2 more seasons after this one at $4MM per year.

Interesting. Reposting the DeBrincat return: That looks like: - Sabres 2023 #1, probably top-3 protected - Philly 2023 #2 - Östlund, Rosen or Sabres 2024 #2 pick ...which is a lot cheaper than Quinn, Kulich and a #1.

I agree with all of this and would just add that a contract extension needs to be part of the deal or else I'm not interested, and I'd expect KA feels the same way. Well, he is 220 lbs. That's a big forward even if he's not 6'4". Otherwise I think you are probably right on all of this and I should have included Savoie in my post as a potential trade chip. This does raise the question of how many big contracts the Sabres can realistically afford. They've got TT and Skinner right now, with Cozens and Dahlin due this summer, likely at about $8MM or so for Cozens and $9.5MM or so for Dahlin. If Meier gets $8.5MM or so (as others have noted a $10MM QO doesn't mean his long-term contract will cost $10MM per year), that's $42MM per year for 5 guys -- so about $40MM left over for the other 18 guys on the roster, with plenty of guys due for raises in the near term. I think SJ is going to require a better-than-Zadorov roster player and a #1 as part of the deal. This is interesting. Olofsson has value now as a goal-scorer on a reasonable contract, plus he can likely be flipped for a #1 either this summer or at the deadline next year. So maybe: Olofsson, Savoie and a top-3 protected 2023 #1?

Eichel isn't a perfect comparable due to the injury risk, but OTOH he was probably viewed as having higher upside and he plays a higher-value position in 1C, so maybe the price will be about the same: top-6 forward who is young and under team control for a while, blue-chip prospect, #1 and #2. The Sabres' picks are more valuable than Vegas' picks were at the time of the Eichel trade, because everyone assumed the Vegas picks would be pretty late in the respective rounds, while the Sabres are still fairly likely to be in the lottery -- and there is a major lottery prize this year as well. The Sabres aren't trading TT, Tuch or Cozens, or Power, Muel or Dahlin, and SJ isn't taking Skinner. That leaves: - Good, young roster player under team control: JJP, Quinn, Mitts, Krebs or Joki - Blue-chip prospect: Kulich, Rosen or Östlund - #1 -- the Sabres would almost certainly require top-3 or maybe just top-1 protection - #2 I can't see SJ accepting a Sabres offer that doesn't include JJP or Quinn. And it's pretty hard to see KA trading one of those 2. But maybe.

Incredible play.

Welcome!

I agree with most of this and would just add that I think unless the bottom falls out on the Sabres, there is NFW they trade VO this year unless it's in a package for a Meier or Chycrun or someone at that level. Good stuff here. I like the comparison to Tampa and their cycling guys through. I think that is definitely the plan here. I also think though there's a plausible scenario in which VO's play, relative to the play of Quinn and JJP, makes it almost imperative for KA to resign him. And that's one of the hard choices you're referring to. Good stuff here too. I agree that JJP and Quinn have more well-rounded games and probably higher ceilings than VO does, and that JJP and Quinn haven't reached those ceilings yet, while VO is likely now reaching his. Still, JJP or Quinn (or both of them) might never reach his ceiling, and we could be looking at a perennial 30-goal guy in VO, with peaks closer to 40, for the next 5 years -- which is the period when the Sabres are going to be taking their shot at a Cup and hopefully perennial contender status. (I haven't seen Kulich other than highlights so don't want to credit him with being at the same level as JJP and Quinn, which is a very good level.) I also agree that if the Sabres make the playoffs, the game VO shows KA will likely be a major factor in KA's thinking. If he can't handle the furnace, it will make it easier for KA to trade him at the deadline next year. (It would seem nuts to let him walk in FA if he's working on his second 30-goal season.) But he might pour in a bunch of goals down the stretch, help them make the playoffs and then play pretty well once they get there -- while Quinn and JJP look overwhelmed. What then? There's the good problem to have you mentioned.

Rangers vs Leafs is a good matchup tonight on TNT. The game just started and Holmberg, a rookie forward on the Leafs, scored a nice goal 2 minutes in.

I've been thinking about VO lately. He's on pace for 38 goals this year and is under contract through next season, after which he'll turn 29 that summer. Suppose he scores 35 goals this season and next season. Even with the league-wide scoring increase, there aren't that many guys who score 35 (VO is currently tied for 26th in goals). Are the Sabres really going to let that many goals walk out the door? Do they really think Quinn (7 goals in 40 games), JJP (7 in 45) or Kulich (7 in 29 AHL games) can score at that level? At some point, proven NHL performance should trump potential, innit?

Not funny.