nfreeman

I don't really agree with the "failed/failing" characterization of most of these moves -- except for Moulson, which has been an utter debacle -- but I completely agree with the ultimate point: GMTM is accountable for the results. The results have been poor. Good post. I completely agree that it isn't the failure to make the playoffs that's such a letdown as much as it is the failure to be competitive. I agree with much of this too.

I think TT would rather go elsewhere than renegotiate with the Bills -- and if he does go elsewhere, he'll get as least as much as his current deal with the Bills would've paid him. No one is going to take Dareus' contract.

Do you think they will make the playoffs next season? If not, and if they end up with fewer than 90 pts again, will you still be OK with GMTM?

"Fleabag" on Amazon Prime was a pretty decent comedy mini-series. Good for watching with your significant other if he/she doesn't mind a bit of raunchy humor.

Let's go back to 2011. The Pegulas had just taken over and the Sabres lost in the 1st round to Philly in 7 games, after being up in the series 3-2, and up by 2 goals at home in game 6 with the opportunity to close it out. (A series in which, btw, and apropos of the "clutchness" discussion in a different thread, the Sabres "top 6" scored a total of zero goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods of all 7 games.) At that point, they were pretty close to having the status I described -- i.e. a 2nd-round playoff team with a good coach, good goaltending, good ownership and good players. And, that summer, although they didn't get Richards, they got the 2nd-best UFA forward in Leino (who turned out to be a bust, but he was still the 2nd-best UFA forward) and the top UFA defenseman in Ehrhoff (who was a solid player but not elite). Neither player was the type of elite player I mentioned, but neither was paid as such, and both represented incremental improvement. We all know what happened next. Just like after Black Sunday, the Sabres' mental midgets hid under the bed and cried the following season, Lindy was fired in the middle of the season after that, and the tank was on. My point is that if the Sabres had made better decisions in that period -- the 2011 and 2012 offseasons, plus the drafts in the prior years -- i.e. bringing in a couple of good forwards with some heart and probably a different GM to run the show -- they could've built upon what they did in 2010 and 2011 (close 1st-round losses both years), instead of falling off the table and then burning the house down. Here's who they drafted in the 1st & 2nd rounds from 2006-2011, btw: Dennis Persson Enroth Mike Weber TJ Brennan Drew Schiestel Myers Ennis Luke Adam Kassian Pysyk Armia That is a freaking pathetic yield for 6 years' worth of top picks. I will also point out that the Sabres have in fact been able to get guys like PLF and Hawerchuk -- ie no-BS NHL stars. If they put a real team together again, they'll be able to attract top players. But they are far away from that now.

Except that he's shown no sign that he's on that level.

They sho'nuff aren't coming to a bottom-5 team. But a team that's in the 2nd round of the playoffs every year, with fancy new facilities, a good coach (hypothetically speaking, of course) and Daddy Warbucks throwing money at the situation? Many wouldn't come, but some would. Parise and Suter went to Minnesota, Hossa went to Detroit, etc.

False dichotomy. And another one. The point, in other words, is that the choice isn't, and wasn't, between tanking for Eichel and being lousy for Hanifan. It is/was between tanking for Eichel and methodically building and maintaining a good team that is in the playoffs every year and incrementally improves every year -- and seizing the opportunity to go over the top when a Pronger or Hossa or Thornton or Seguin or Kessel or other elite player pops loose, which happens regularly. That way you don't become a chronic loser and subject your fans to a decade in the wilderness.

Who has said that Hossa, Keith and Ladd aren't good leaders? There is no question that Chicago assembled a great team, with contributions from multiple great players. (I wouldn't put Ladd in that category though -- he was a good player whose game has fallen off the table the last few years.) As for not believing in "clutch" -- I could not disagree more. The playoffs are a different animal from the regular season. It's a harder game, and tougher to produce. Over the long haul, clutchness -- determination, focus and grace under pressure -- emerges. For example: Derek Roy, as gutless a player as the Sabres have ever had, "put up numbers" every year in the regular season -- and had 7 goals in 49 playoff games (2 of which were in 1 game, the incredible 7-6 win over Ottawa in 2006). Danny Briere, the most clutch Sabre ever, had 53 goals and 116 pts in 124 playoff games. Toews has 39 goals and 108 pts in 124 playoff games.

I think you misinterpreted my post. My point is that it is rare to land an elite generational player -- i.e. most #1/#2 draft picks do NOT fit that characterization. For every McD, there are 10 RNHs/Yakupovs/Halls/Fleurys.-- i.e. mostly good-to-very-good players (and some JAGs), but very few transformational players. That -- along with the prohibitive odds of winning the lottery in a year in which one of those guys is available -- is why the tank is chasing the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Good stuff in here boys.

Well, you're counting chickens awfully prematurely here. Plenty of prospects have looked great in juniors and done nada in the NHL. GMTM's job is to ice a winning team. To date he has undeniably failed to do so.

No. I "admit" that the rare team that is fortunate enough to land transformational players at the top of the draft (or elsewhere) benefits greatly from doing so. That is substantially different from the position that a team is likely to become a contender by tanking in order to draft high. In most cases, teams that bottom out stay lousy for a long time. That unavoidable reality is why I and many others opposed the tank. The Sabres have drafted, in the last 4 years, #8, #2, #2, #8, and will probably be around #5 this year. Do you think they will make the playoffs next year? If they don't, that's a solid 8 years (at a minimum) with no playoffs. It's not just numbers. This isn't fantasy hockey. Derek Roy put up numbers too. Toews is a leader. He raises the level of play of those around him. He's also a very clutch player -- Conn Smythe winner, led Canadian Olympic team in scoring, scored in the gold-medal game, etc. And while his scoring is down this year, I think it's an exaggeration to say that it's been in decline for 3 years. He's had 28 goals per year for the last 3 years prior to this one, plus 17 pts in 19 playoff games, then 21 pts in 23 playoff games, then 6 pts in 7 playoff games -- all during a period of increasing offensive constipation league-wide.

I posted the numbers on Toews' production at age 20 in response to TB's assertion that Reino's production at age 21 was comparable to Toews'. It isn't. As for outscoring Toews this season: if the NHL were folding after this season, and you were GMTM, would you trade Reino for Toews? I certainly would. As for the bolded: perhaps Toews' production this year doesn't live up to his career standards, but he's had a fantastic career. Reino is a nice player, but "impact" isn't something I associate with his game -- and to think his career will hold a candle to Toews' is wildly optimistic.

Completely agree.

No. When Toews was 20 (not 21), he was named captain of the Hawks (before his 2nd NHL season), then put up 34-35-69 (plus 51 PIM) and led the Hawks to the playoffs for the 1st time in 6 years (which was the 2nd time in 11 years). The Hawks made the conference finals that year and Toews had 13 pts (7 goals) in 17 playoff games. When Kane was 20, he put up 25-45-70 in the regular season -- comparable to Eichel -- and then 9-5-14 in 16 playoff games. If the Sabres are very lucky, Eichel will be in the same ballpark as Kane. I don't see Reino approaching Toews' production or leadership.

Do you think Eichel and Reino are as good as Kane and Toews? I do not. Also -- Chicago didn't tank -- they just stunk for a generation.

Well, I'm not sure GMTM embraced it -- I see it more as "we're already in this poopstorm, let's ride it out and get Eichel or, if we're really lucky, McD" -- but that is certainly a reasonable take on it. I assume you mean the trades were unintentionally awful. As for whether it worked -- serious question: do you think Eichel is a good enough player to justify the tank? I do not. I think only a truly generational talent -- like McD or Crosby -- is worth it.

The few, the proud... It should of course be noted that the tank was not GMTM's idea -- he inherited it from Darcy "time for some suffering" Regier.

No. They started it too soon. The correct time to have started it would've been "never."

Questionable analogy. I would've gone with something like ..."because the napkins are 2-ply instead of 4-ply."

If GMTM's plan relied on winning a lottery that he had a 1-in-5 chance to win, then he is a blithering incompetent. I don't think he planned on getting McD. I do think he thought the team would be further along than they are now -- although last week on WGR he emphasized the effect of the injuries on the team's performance this year. That concerns me, because they are pretty much fully healthy now and they still stink.

Welcome to both of you!

I think the odds of Romo surviving a year as QB for the Bills without sustaining a major injury are close to zero.

In the 22 games since Eichel's return, they are 10-8-4. That is 2 games below DeLuca .500 and, more importantly, well off a playoff pace. In 6 of those losses, they produced 1 goal. In 4 others, they produced 2 goals. So 10 out of 22 games with 2 goals or fewer. They've won more than 2 in a row just once this season -- that was a 3-game streak -- after which they immediately lost 7 out of 8. I have been generally fine with GMTM, but if this is how the season ends up, he will need to do something significant in order for there to be any reason to think next year will be better.