nfreeman

Well, I assume you watched the games -- do you think he played well?

Only if JA plays better in the playoffs than he did in January.

So I randomly started reading a collection of short stories by F. Scott Fitzgerald. I'd never ready anything by him other than the Great Gatsby, which I read in HS and thought was fine but wasn't blown away by it. The short story collection is great. It inspired me to read his wikipedia page, from which I learned that he lived much of his childhood, until age 12, in Buffalo and Syracuse. (His dad worked for Procter and Gamble in Buffalo.)

I don't think it works for either of them. If Eichel is traded because he allegedly wants the surgery, and then doesn't have the surgery once he lands with a new team, he looks like a dishonest DB. From the Sabres' perspective, the injury, and Eichel's failure to recover, substantially depresses his trade value.

So, at this point, what do we know? - The 12-week rest-and-recovery period is over. - The Sabres still do not want Eichel to have the surgery. - KA hasn't spoken with Eichel's camp yet. - There have been no reports of any positive developments in Eichel's physical condition. - KA has continued to speak glowingly about the Sabres' young players and the importance of having guys on the team who want to be here. - The Sabres have won the lottery and thus the ability to take Beniers, a good C prospect who evidently has a very good motor and plays a strong 200-foot game, has been compared to Jonathan Toews and is an American (from Boston, btw) who is playing for a top NCAA program. - The Sabres have not signed Reinhart to an extension and there haven't been any reports regarding negotiations. What can we deduce from the above? IMHO, the following are pretty likely: - The Sabres and Eichel still do not agree on Eichel's treatment, with Eichel still wanting to have the surgery. - Eichel still wants the surgery because he does not feel like his body in its current condition will allow him to play at the level he is accustomed to. - There is a real risk -- maybe 50/50 or higher -- that Eichel is permanently damaged goods and will not regain his MVP-contender-level form of 2 seasons ago, regardless of the medical approach that is taken. - That risk will be "priced in" to the offers that the Sabres get for Eichel, resulting in a lower yield than would be the case if he were healthy. - That risk, combined with his impending NMC, the $50MM still owed to him, his desire to GTFO of here and the Sabres' ability to draft Beniers, will drive KA to take the best offer he can get for him this summer, which no one here will be happy with. Not a great outlook, but I don't think there is anything to be gained by kidding ourselves.

It's not the same thing -- more like night and day, in fact. The improvement to 81 pts with ROR proved out to be a dead-cat bounce, while the initial improvement with Drury proved out to be a steppingstone to becoming an elite team. I omitted neither Briere nor Miller from my post. You are right that I didn't give Briere's PPG stat for one of the seasons, but I credited him heavily (twice, in fact). If it was Drury's talent that was his biggest contributing factor, why will you not say that Vanek, whom you say was more talented than Drury, would be better for this team than Drury was? How about Derek Roy? Dany Heatley? Alexei Yashin? Jeff Skinner? Pierre Turgeon? Speaking of Yashin, who was drafted #1 overall and put up a ton of points, would you rather add him to this Sabres team, or Chara, for whom Yashin was traded? Which of those 2 was more talented? Leaving aside the google hits, do you think ROR was/is a good team leader? Overall, you seem to be making the point that leadership, grit, determination, etc. are just meaningless buzzwords that don't contribute to winning hockey. Is that right? If so, how do you explain Toronto again getting bounced early, and 17 of the 18 highest-paid forwards no longer in the playoffs (if I have that right)?

Again, you're making my point for me. The talent isn't enough without the heart and the determination (although I'm glad to see that you're at least not going to claim, despite 2 invitations, that Vanek would be better for this team than Drury would be). Let's examine some facts: - The Sabres lost Dominik in 2001. They immediately fell out of the playoffs the following season and finished with 82 points. - The season after that, they were 5th-worst in the NHL with 72 points. Their leading scorer was Miro with 75 pts, followed by Gratton with 44 and Kotalik and Dumont with 35 each. Not exactly a roster "built to succeed." - That summer (2003), they traded for Drury. They immediately improved to 85 points. Their leading scorers were Briere (also a huge addition) with 65 pts, followed by Miro, who dropped to 57 pts, and Dumont, who improved to 53 pts (in 1 more game than the previous year), and Drury, also with 53. Their goalies were the same as the prior year -- Marty and Noronen, as was their coach. Again, not a roster "built to succeed" -- but something happened to trigger a major improvement. - The following season, they improved to 110 pts and 5th in the NHL. Their leading scorers were Max, who improved from 31 pts to 73 pts (placing 44th in NHL scoring), Drury with 67, Kotalik with 62 (up from 26) and Briere with 58. Drury led them out of the darkness. Certainly there were plenty of others (Lindy, Miller, Briere, etc.) that played major roles -- but this wasn't a case of major stars out-talenting the opposition. Also relevant: I don't remember where I read it, but 17 of the top 18 highest paid forwards are out of the NHL playoffs. It takes a LOT more than talent. Seriously? You're quoting one word from an NBCSN video to make your point? About a guy who forced himself off of 2 different teams? Weak sauce.

No one has claimed that she's risen to her current position on her own or that her husband hasn't given her things. No one is peddling a false image of her. You are free to say that she hasn't succeeded on her own and that her husband has given her things. There are indeed posters here who engage in PC policing from time to time. This is not one of those cases. You are 100% in the wrong, both in the use of the slur and in trying to defend yourself by hiding behind claims that everyone else is being a PC puritan. What crosses the line into baseless slur -- which is something you and everyone else need to avoid when posting here -- is the leap from "she hasn't achieved anything on her own" to "she's a grasping trophy wife." -- i.e. the leap from "she's not an accomplished person" to "she's a [slur for a type of bad person]." Do better or keep quiet.

Do you mean that Vanek was more talented than Drury was, or that Vanek would improve this team more than Drury would? Or both? If your meaning was that Vanek would improve this team more than Drury would, I could not disagree more. I agree that guys like ROR, who are significant contributors to good teams, have drowned and will continue to drown in the Sabres' current suckitude, and I would expect the same will occur with Eichel and Reino if they are traded to good teams -- i.e. they will be good contributors on those teams. But the ROR example kinda proves my point -- i.e. he's a talented guy who wasn't a blood-and-guts leader type, and he made very little difference in the on-ice results here. That doesn't mean that trading ROR was the right move, or that trading Eichel and/or Reino will make the team better, as I agree with you that talent is needed for a team to succeed. But I think at this point in time this team needs heart, determination and leadership more than it needs pure talent. It needs Drury much more than it needs Vanek.

@Thorny -- as between Drury and Vanek, which one had more talent? And which one would make a bigger difference on this Sabres team?

No one said otherwise. The pushback you've gotten here was because of your baseless use of a slur.

No. Messier would be exactly what the doctor ordered for this team. Like Jim Kelly did for the Bills, Messier would lift the Sabres, by force of will and ability, out of the quicksand in which they are embedded. It's not all about hands and feet. A huge percentage of it is between the ears. @PASabreFan is absolutely right that what the Sabres need isn't another high draft pick who can skate like the wind and dangle filthy. They need skill, yes, but it needs to be combined in a body with blood and guts. If Eichel and Reino want out, give me as many Peca, Drury, Warrener and McKee types as we can get, plus MAF in goal next year and a real coach and let's see what we can do.

Geez. It’s a skeleton feebly giving someone the finger. Pretty apt gif IMHO, although I’m worried about how discouraged Liger seems.

This is a great putdown-y description of Toronto by Adam Gopnik, who writes for the New Yorker and is from Montreal:

I've been thinking a bit about this, as it's certainly a possibility that naturally comes to mind when things are going badly. I don't think though that this is what is going on. Eichel would look really bad if he were to force a trade on the grounds that he wants the surgery and then didn't get the surgery. There would be nowhere for him to hide on this. Also, if he wants to force a trade, he can do so without relying on the surgery as a pretext. Now, he may be determined to force a trade anyway -- I just don't think it makes sense for him to do so while dishonestly hiding behind the surgery as the reason. This is probably wishful thinking, but I think Friedman's meaning here is "if the parties don't agree on the next steps for treating Eichel's injury, the likely outcome is a trade" -- not "at this point, the parties are sick of each other and the likely outcome is a trade."

Holy mackerel getting Julio Jones for the next 2 years would be awesome.

Well, you’re probably right that no ultimatums have been delivered, but I’m sure everyone involved knows that the contract is the ultimate issue. In that sense it is being held over Jack’s head even if the Sabres didn’t say it directly.

Again: as others have noted repeatedly, he wasn't wealthy when they married. So the "younger women marrying older men for the their money" thing isn't supported by the facts here, regardless of how often you repeat it. I don't see the relevance of him being her boss. You are right that the age difference supports the notion of TP marrying a trophy wife. It does not support the use of "grasping", which implies that she was a conniving and greedy person who targeted him for his money and who continues to take as much as possible. I still haven't seen you or the OP introduce anything about KP that demonstrates her being that kind of person. That's the problem here -- the blithe, unsupported leap to fairly serious accusations about her character that are based entirely on her demographics.

Interesting.

The objectionable term was "grasping trophy wife." That phrase implies a set of serious character flaws. People objecting to it, when the person introducing it, and the person defending the person introducing it, are unable to provide a single act or statement supporting it, are not being PC snowflakes. They are just put off by it because of its hostility and borderline misogyny.

So neither of you have any action or statement by her whatsoever to support "grasping trophy wife?" Just the fact that she married her boss, who was not, as others have pointed out upthread, wealthy when they got married? So you're just assuming that she is a bad person because the Sabres have stunk while she and her husband have owned the team, and used a deeply pejorative term to describe her? That is just terrible, and reflects badly on you.

Well, I think they targeted Allen and did what they had to do to get him (although I would be curious as to whether they would've taken Darnold if he'd been available). I also think they've done an excellent job at building a high-quality NFL franchise. You are of course right that they look great because of how well Allen has developed. What exactly has she done or said, other than marrying a wealthy man, to be characterized like this?

I agree that most fans who move keep their hometown allegiances. I’ve additionally done what I think a good number do, which is adopt some or all of the new city’s teams as secondary allegiances.

I think there is a very good possibility of this happening. Something about Hall inspires overpayment. He is certainly playing much better there than in Buffalo, but if they pay him like a top line winger it will be a waste of cap space. However, if they can keep him for, say, $5MM per year for 3 years, and can keep a good top line to play ahead of him and the rest of a good 2nd line for him to play with, that would be a good situation for both of them. It would also continue to rub it in our faces for the length of that contract.

Well, @Curt can certainly speak for himself, but I think he’s saying we should react to facts, not free association. If Hall says there are other teams he would’ve accepted a trade to, the immediate question is whether any of those teams offered more than Boston did. Since we don’t know the answer to that question, it’s impossible to evaluate whether Hall is being honest.