Great home page for NHL coverage

[nfreeman]

From the Globe and Mail: http://www.globesports.com/hockey

 

IMHO, this is the best website for league-wide coverage that I've seen. Comprehensive coverage, good commentary, good blogs, standings and schedule right on the home page, etc.

 

For example, I haven't seen a peep in the Buffalo News about the sale of the Penguins to the blackberry billionaire from Ontario -- but this is a pretty important issue for the sabres since there is a real possibility the team could move to Hamilton or the vicinity, which would inevitably draw fans away from our base. This website has a number of articles about this.

 

Moderators: may I suggest adding a link to this website on the Sabrespace home page?

[sabregoats]

From the Globe and Mail: http://www.globesports.com/hockey

 

IMHO, this is the best website for league-wide coverage that I've seen. Comprehensive coverage, good commentary, good blogs, standings and schedule right on the home page, etc.

 

For example, I haven't seen a peep in the Buffalo News about the sale of the Penguins to the blackberry billionaire from Ontario -- but this is a pretty important issue for the sabres since there is a real possibility the team could move to Hamilton or the vicinity, which would inevitably draw fans away from our base. This website has a number of articles about this.

 

Moderators: may I suggest adding a link to this website on the Sabrespace home page?

 

but all five penguins fans will become sabres fans

[Saber61]

but all five penguins fans will become sabres fans

 

Hamilton has a population of 500,000... if even 200,000 of them are hockey fans and 50,000 sabres fans... 150,000 leaf fans... thats a pretty big hit... because they all turn into hamilton fans.... thats assuming hamilton has 200,000 hockey fans... there not that much of a hockey city... they can't even fill the copps colliuseum on a regular basis for bulldogs games...

[apuszczalowski]

It ain't going to happen, the league will not allow a team in Hamilton cause it would infringe on the Sabres and Leafs Territory. I remember reading in the offseason about how the league has a system, each team has a certain radius taken from their arena (I believe) and inside that radius is considered their territory. The Leafs and Sabres territory overlap just slightly over part of Hamilton, its the reason why the TV station in Hamilton can't get the rights to show Sabres games in Niagara.

 

The Leafs might be able to handle a new franchise in the area, but the Sabres cannot. They would be more likely to put the team farther away in London or in the Kitchener/Waterloo area then in Hamilton since it would be farther from Buffalo.

 

Bettman allowing a team to move to hamilton would basically be him saying screw you to Buffalo and having another NHL team move Cities.

[Barnabov]

I'd qualify that by saying best web site if you want to follow Canadian teams.

 

I don't trust Toronto media to be unbiased in their Sabres coverage.

 

I think Yahoo NHL does a good job of covering a wide variety of NHL areas -it's kind of a best of web site from other sources. Not always the quickest to be updated but good general site.

 

Wish those guys on the Globe site hadn't posted their photos - YUCK - that will delay my lunch for awhile seeing those nasty faces.

[apuszczalowski]

Hamilton has a population of 500,000... if even 200,000 of them are hockey fans and 50,000 sabres fans... 150,000 leaf fans... thats a pretty big hit... because they all turn into hamilton fans.... thats assuming hamilton has 200,000 hockey fans... there not that much of a hockey city... they can't even fill the copps colliuseum on a regular basis for bulldogs games...

Just because a team would be placed in Hamilton, it doesn't mean every fan of another team in that area would become a fan of that team. The fans may try supporting both teams, but alot may continue to follow their origninal team and occasionally support the local team. Did all the Leafs fans in Buffalo (and Niagara Region) become Sabres fans once the Sabres formed?

 

The only fans you will get are the occasional hockey fans who don't really have an affiliation with a team already and new fans of the sport

[Eleven]

Just because a team would be placed in Hamilton, it doesn't mean every fan of another team in that area would become a fan of that team. The fans may try supporting both teams, but alot may continue to follow their origninal team and occasionally support the local team. Did all the Leafs fans in Buffalo (and Niagara Region) become Sabres fans once the Sabres formed?

 

The only fans you will get are the occasional hockey fans who don't really have an affiliation with a team already and new fans of the sport

 

I don' t think so; there are a lot of Senators fans who were Habs or Leaves fans sixteen years ago.

 

Your other point re: Kitchener-Waterloo is right; K-W is more likely than Hamilton (see my post in the Buccigross/Sabres Logo thread) but why isn't Winnepeg even more likely than K-W? No other teams nearby (an argument could be made that K-W are near three) and some momentum behind the idea of bringing the NHL back. I know RIM is based in Waterloo, but that won't necessarily inform the question much less decide it.

[apuszczalowski]

I don' t think so; there are a lot of Senators fans who were Habs or Leaves fans sixteen years ago.

 

Your other point re: Kitchener-Waterloo is right; K-W is more likely than Hamilton (see my post in the Buccigross/Sabres Logo thread) but why isn't Winnepeg even more likely than K-W? No other teams nearby (an argument could be made that K-W are near three) and some momentum behind the idea of bringing the NHL back. I know RIM is based in Waterloo, but that won't necessarily inform the question much less decide it.

I'm sure Winnepeg is a better choice, I was just going with an Ontario example. Using something close to Hamilton but out of the Sabres range. I think the 2 "hotspots" for relocation for the NHL is Winnepeg, KC, Seattle, and Vegas. Atleast, those are the names that come up the most often when talks of relocation come up

[nfreeman]

I don' t think so; there are a lot of Senators fans who were Habs or Leaves fans sixteen years ago.

 

Your other point re: Kitchener-Waterloo is right; K-W is more likely than Hamilton (see my post in the Buccigross/Sabres Logo thread) but why isn't Winnepeg even more likely than K-W? No other teams nearby (an argument could be made that K-W are near three) and some momentum behind the idea of bringing the NHL back. I know RIM is based in Waterloo, but that won't necessarily inform the question much less decide it.

 

Sorry, but I must disagree. How could the location of the new owner's home not inform the decision? It's his team!

 

As far as Winnipeg being more likely than K-W -- Winnipeg has a population of 650,000, with another 600K in the entire rest of the province of Manitoba (which is bloody enormous). Southern Ontario's population is 5.5 million. It's essentially impossible for a normal person to go to a Leafs game -- the games are all sold out, and the tickets are very expensive at face value and prohibitive in the 2ndary market. On the other hand, Winnipeg has already demonstrated that ti couldn't support an NHL team.

 

While the point made above about being in the Leafs' and/or the Sabres' territories is valid, I've already seen suggestions that he merely needs to do what Ottawa did -- ie figure out where the geographic endpoints of those territories are, march 10 steps further into "free" territory, and build an arena. That way he has a 20-minute drive to watch his new team play in his new arena -- as opposed to a 3-hour plane trip in the dead of the Canadian winter.

 

Now, I would certainly prefer that the team stay in Pittsburgh or go to Winnipeg (or Quebec, for that matter). I don't like it when cities lose their teams, esp. Canadian cities that are passionate about their teams. I also don't like the near-certainty that a new team in Ontario would siphon off some of the Sabres' economic base. But economic realities are what drive these decisions. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the greatest likelihood is that they move to Ontario.

 

Just my opinion.

[Eleven]

Sorry, but I must disagree. How could the location of the new owner's home not inform the decision? It's his team!

 

 

It won't necessarily inform the decision. The Bruins play in Boston, not Buffalo; the Sabres in Buffalo, not Rochester; the Canadiens are firmly located in Quebec although they are owned by an American; the Avalanche play in Denver and not in Central Missouri; (EDIT: none of the current owners of these teams attempted a move to their home cities upon purchase)...there are probably more but I won't go on.

[Taro T]

While the Pens moving to Ontario will remain a possibility until either Pittsburgh builds a new arena or the moving vans head to KC, Portland, or wherever; I simply don't see another team ending up in Ontario - ESPECIALLY not in Hamilton.

 

Hamilton was the concensus choice to get the Senators franchise when the league expanded but the Sabres (behind the scenes) and the Loafs (officially) vetoed Hamilton getting a team. (That MIGHT actually be part of the problem the Sabres have had in getting their games on TV on the NP. They owed the Loafs bigtime for being the official bad guys when the Hamilton bid got scuttled.)

 

Also, back in the '80's the Blues were sold to an ownership group that had every intention of moving the team to Saskatoon. The league vetoed the move and IIRC the Saskatoon group then sold the team to interests that ended up keeping it in St. Louis.

 

With the league still officially looking to expand (or at least maintain) the footprint of locales served by the NHL, I see no way that the league would allow another team into an area already served by the Sabres, Loafs, and Dead Things. I would expect to see a team end up in Winnipeg sooner than in Hamilton or Kitchener, but think they would try to keep the team in the US first as they are still looking to increase US TV $'s. To be honest, I think they'd give TO (or Missisagua, etc.) a second franchise before they'd put one elsewhere in Ontario, although I see that as a longshot at best (due to reducing the number of cities (and US cities specifically) that have teams).

[nfreeman]

While the Pens moving to Ontario will remain a possibility until either Pittsburgh builds a new arena or the moving vans head to KC, Portland, or wherever; I simply don't see another team ending up in Ontario - ESPECIALLY not in Hamilton.

 

Hamilton was the concensus choice to get the Senators franchise when the league expanded but the Sabres (behind the scenes) and the Loafs (officially) vetoed Hamilton getting a team. (That MIGHT actually be part of the problem the Sabres have had in getting their games on TV on the NP. They owed the Loafs bigtime for being the official bad guys when the Hamilton bid got scuttled.)

 

Also, back in the '80's the Blues were sold to an ownership group that had every intention of moving the team to Saskatoon. The league vetoed the move and IIRC the Saskatoon group then sold the team to interests that ended up keeping it in St. Louis.

 

With the league still officially looking to expand (or at least maintain) the footprint of locales served by the NHL, I see no way that the league would allow another team into an area already served by the Sabres, Loafs, and Dead Things. I would expect to see a team end up in Winnipeg sooner than in Hamilton or Kitchener, but think they would try to keep the team in the US first as they are still looking to increase US TV $'s. To be honest, I think they'd give TO (or Missisagua, etc.) a second franchise before they'd put one elsewhere in Ontario, although I see that as a longshot at best (due to reducing the number of cities (and US cities specifically) that have teams).

 

I completely agree that the NHL would greatly prefer that they stay in Pitt or move to another US city. However, there would need to be a new arena in Pitt or an arena in whatever other US city it is that would generate enough cash to the new owner to make it worthwhile. I don't think the NHL will or can force him to stay in Pitt or move to an arena where the economics are materially worse than what he would get in Ontario.

 

I also think (i) the economics in the current Pitt and Winnipeg arenas are sufficiently bad that there is no way the team is staying in Pitt or moving to Winnipeg without a new arena and (ii) those cities aren't building new arenas for an NHL team.

 

If I'm right, that means the choices are another US city, or the billionaire owner's backyard in Ontario. The US cities I've heard mentioned are Vegas, KC and Seattle. I don't think Vegas is a possibility, especially in light of the Gretzkys' recent issues. I don't know anything about the economics in KC, but I'd guess they are substantially better in Seattle. So: would the NHL force its new high-profile tech billionaire owner (exactly the kind of owner Bettman wants) to locate his franchise an entire continent away from home? Or half a continent if it's KC? Pretty questionable.

 

I'm throwing down the gauntlet and predicting that the Penguins move to Ontario.

[Taro T]

I completely agree that the NHL would greatly prefer that they stay in Pitt or move to another US city. However, there would need to be a new arena in Pitt or an arena in whatever other US city it is that would generate enough cash to the new owner to make it worthwhile. I don't think the NHL will or can force him to stay in Pitt or move to an arena where the economics are materially worse than what he would get in Ontario.

 

I also think (i) the economics in the current Pitt and Winnipeg arenas are sufficiently bad that there is no way the team is staying in Pitt or moving to Winnipeg without a new arena and (ii) those cities aren't building new arenas for an NHL team.

 

If I'm right, that means the choices are another US city, or the billionaire owner's backyard in Ontario. The US cities I've heard mentioned are Vegas, KC and Seattle. I don't think Vegas is a possibility, especially in light of the Gretzkys' recent issues. I don't know anything about the economics in KC, but I'd guess they are substantially better in Seattle. So: would the NHL force its new high-profile tech billionaire owner (exactly the kind of owner Bettman wants) to locate his franchise an entire continent away from home? Or half a continent if it's KC? Pretty questionable.

 

I'm throwing down the gauntlet and predicting that the Penguins move to Ontario.

While I would expect that Balsillie would prefer to own a team in Ontario, that doesn't mean the other 29 owners will allow him to do that.

 

KC is in the process of building a new 18,500 seat arena that conveniently is scheduled to open in October '07. I didn't pay close enough attention to Ron McLean's spiel on HNiC to get the details, but he had stated something to the effect that the investors in that building were promised by someone (AEG? who is building the rink) that either an existing NHL team or an expansion franchise would play in the rink within the next few years. While that wouldn't guarantee that a team would come in, it does imply that KC will make a legitimate bid to whoever owns the Pens (or any other failing team, a classification of which doesn't seem to exist at the current moment, but things do change) to bring the team there.

 

Yes, the NHL failed in KC in the '70's, but it failed in Denver in the '80's, and in Filly in the '30's. Times and situations change.

 

There would be at least 4 owners that wouldn't want a team in Ontario - Illitch, MLSE Inc, Golisano, and Jacobs. If 3 of the original 6 don't want something to happen, I think they will have enough clout to make it not happen.

 

IF an arena deal can't get worked out in Pittsburgh (and the Pens have been written off as gone so many times, I wouldn't say they are definitely gone until the moving vans pull up to the doors), then I would expect to see them end up in KC, Portland, Houston, Seattle, or Milwaukee or even Winnipeg before we see them in Kitchener. (Heck, as I mentioned, IF they end up in Ontario, I'd expect to see them in Toronto or a northern suburb before anywhere else in the Province. That way, Balsillie only has to pay off 1 ownership group, that may be willing to play for the right sum.)

[hopeleslyobvious]

While I would expect that Balsillie would prefer to own a team in Ontario, that doesn't mean the other 29 owners will allow him to do that.

 

KC is in the process of building a new 18,500 seat arena that conveniently is scheduled to open in October '07. I didn't pay close enough attention to Ron McLean's spiel on HNiC to get the details, but he had stated something to the effect that the investors in that building were promised by someone (AEG? who is building the rink) that either an existing NHL team or an expansion franchise would play in the rink within the next few years. While that wouldn't guarantee that a team would come in, it does imply that KC will make a legitimate bid to whoever owns the Pens (or any other failing team, a classification of which doesn't seem to exist at the current moment, but things do change) to bring the team there.

 

Yes, the NHL failed in KC in the '70's, but it failed in Denver in the '80's, and in Filly in the '30's. Times and situations change.

 

There would be at least 4 owners that wouldn't want a team in Ontario - Illitch, MLSE Inc, Golisano, and Jacobs. If 3 of the original 6 don't want something to happen, I think they will have enough clout to make it not happen.

 

IF an arena deal can't get worked out in Pittsburgh (and the Pens have been written off as gone so many times, I wouldn't say they are definitely gone until the moving vans pull up to the doors), then I would expect to see them end up in KC, Portland, Houston, Seattle, or Milwaukee or even Winnipeg before we see them in Kitchener. (Heck, as I mentioned, IF they end up in Ontario, I'd expect to see them in Toronto or a northern suburb before anywhere else in the Province. That way, Balsillie only has to pay off 1 ownership group, that may be willing to play for the right sum.)

 

 

They were talking about this on Hockey This Morning the other day on XM, apparently KC has already sold a significant amount of luxury boxes in the new arena.

 

Also, it should be noted that Winnipeg has a new arena, the only problem is that it only holds about 15,000. Again on Hockey This Morning they mentioned that it can be upgraded.

[nfreeman]

That's interesting info about KC. Depending on the economics of the deal with the pens on lease/concession/other, this could certainly make it a viable contender for the team. I would also expect Houston to be a serious contender given the sheer size of the market there. I do have a hard time believing that Winnipeg is a real contender.

 

Anyway, here's an article about this from today's NY Sun: http://www.nysun.com/article/41426. One interesting note: "And with the news surfacing that a mysterious party has paid for the right to lease Hamilton's Copps Coliseum for an NHL team (and extended the agreement until February 1, 2007), there's good reason to wonder whether tonight could in fact be one of the last times the Pittsburgh Penguins will visit Madison Square Garden."

[Barnabov]

Here's an article on the new arena in KC (sorry if it's been posted already).

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05359/627750.stm

 

and the web site is www.sprintcenter.com or www.yourkcarena.com

 

Don't know if anyone cares but it will be an awesome facility in a great location. My wife & I lived 12 blocks from the site and her family still has a condo there - it's turning into a total entertainment district. They re-did Union Station and it's been like a magnet for restaurants & places to go out.

 

I can't believe they built the place without having a team so it will be interesting to see what develops.

 

Anyway, only thing I'm not too sure about is walking underneath the interstate to get to the site (hopefully they'll have a trolley like HSBC - that was great to catch a ride on from in front of the Hyatt when we went to a game last year. Too bad it was so desolate around the area when we came back - we could barely find a place to get a drink at 11 on a Saturday night. Ended up going back to the EB Greens steakhouse where we'd eaten earlier then over to the Comfort Inn where we were staying.