The Sabres should trade the 11th overall pick in the 2024 draft

[Thorny]

Just now, inkman said:

I just don’t think it’s as easy as “trade pick 11, win now.” 

I agree. But no stone unturned 

[That Aud Smell]

41 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

If you scroll through Instagram during the All Star Break you will find pictures of players from all over the league enjoying the sun with teammates. 
 

The NHL even highlights some of pictures on their account 

Do you likewise find pics of one young centre who got a 7-8 year deal based on a small sample size (career year?) congratulating a younger teammate (also a centre) who similarly got extended (big term, small sample size, big year) on a team that missed the playoffs and then regressed and a franchise that is continually setting a record for playoff futility?

Context matters.

And my theory and point go beyond the mere fact that they’re pictured in the Caribbean together.

I want to be proven wrong. I want them to grow up, get tougher, become more accountable, maybe even become a bit less chummy with each other (?). I’m not optimistic — not yet anyway.

Oh, and shoutout @Demoted: THIS is a narrative. It’s mine, for now.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Do you likewise find pics of one young centre who got a 7-8 year deal based on a small sample size (career year?) congratulating a younger teammate (also a centre) who similarly got extended (big term, small sample size, big year) on a team that missed the playoffs and then regressed and a franchise that is continually setting a record for playoff futility?

Context matters.

And my theory and point go beyond the mere fact that they’re pictured in the Caribbean together.

I want to be proven wrong. I want them to grow up, get tougher, become more accountable, maybe even become a bit less chummy with each other (?). I’m not optimistic — not yet anyway.

Oh, and shoutout @Demoted: THIS is a narrative. It’s mine, for now.

You're mad about 2 guys on vacation having a beach drink? Holy ***** are we missing the forest through the underbrush.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

More less one of the steps you need to get to in joining the ranks of the good teams. “We have too many prospects for nhl spaces” isn’t a unique problem to Buffalo it’s the commonplace result of icing a competent roster. We are just HYPER unfamiliar. Those players don’t need to be in the NHL. If they need to be, they’d force their way 

block or not 

It’s the difference between the teams that say “ahhh injuries, what could we have even done?” And those that finish top 16

If Adams doesn't add enough nhl veterans to block the 20yr old kids in Rochester from the 3rd and 4th lines, he's failed. 

[That Aud Smell]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You're mad about 2 guys on vacation having a beach drink? Holy ***** are we missing the forest through the underbrush.

 

I’m debating whether I’m being punked or whether reading (comprehension) is just lacking.

In answer to your question @LGR4GM:

No.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

 

I’m debating whether I’m being punked or whether reading (comprehension) is just lacking.

In answer to your question @LGR4GM:

No.

Well in my defense, this sentence is nonsensical. 

"Do you likewise find pics of one young centre who got a 7-8 year deal based on a small sample size (career year?) congratulating a younger teammate (also a centre) who similarly got extended (big term, small sample size, big year) on a team that missed the playoffs and then regressed and a franchise that is continually setting a record for playoff futility?"

Are you asking if we can find other pics of two teammates drinking on a beach after signing contracts? 

[That Aud Smell]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Well in my defense, this sentence is nonsensical. 

"Do you likewise find pics of one young centre who got a 7-8 year deal based on a small sample size (career year?) congratulating a younger teammate (also a centre) who similarly got extended (big term, small sample size, big year) on a team that missed the playoffs and then regressed and a franchise that is continually setting a record for playoff futility?"

Are you asking if we can find other pics of two teammates drinking on a beach after signing contracts? 

It’s a run on, for sure. But most of what you need is there.

The picture is, to me, suggestive of a (metaphysical?) problem that I think will plague this team. 

The fact that other NHL players take a similar photo is irrelevant, to me. That is, perhaps, unless they are on a team with a similar problem.

[...]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It’s a run on, for sure. But most of what you need is there.

The picture is, to me, suggestive of a (metaphysical?) problem that I think will plague this team. 

The fact that other NHL players take a similar photo is irrelevant, to me. That is, perhaps, unless they are on a team with a similar problem.

Is it something like a concern that they may believe that, as individuals, they have already won (the contracts) and that they are mutually reinforcing the "spirit" behind that mindset, which ultimately is dangerous for a lockerroom because that weak, selfish spirit can spread faster than a spirit bent on fully committing to competitiveness?

[Thorny]

27 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It’s a run on, for sure. But most of what you need is there.

The picture is, to me, suggestive of a (metaphysical?) problem that I think will plague this team. 

The fact that other NHL players take a similar photo is irrelevant, to me. That is, perhaps, unless they are on a team with a similar problem.

It’s generally interesting to me how often you see “but all the other teams do so and so” used as reasoning for expected or desired conduct when the Sabres have so thoroughly proven themselves the outlier to which the usual does not apply, over a large sample size.

This statement itself is a generalization but basically I’m just saying I don’t think the Sabres have the luxury of yielding to anything just because “that’s the way it is”.

Up to and including things like the unusualness of dealing a prized prospect in the name of winning now, etc etc etc. Just to use an example of another area this logic theoretically applies 

Edited May 9 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

It’s a run on, for sure. But most of what you need is there.

The picture is, to me, suggestive of a (metaphysical?) problem that I think will plague this team. 

The fact that other NHL players take a similar photo is irrelevant, to me. That is, perhaps, unless they are on a team with a similar problem.

Hmm. Maybe.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, ... said:

Is it something like a concern that they may believe that, as individuals, they have already won (the contracts) and that they are mutually reinforcing the "spirit" behind that mindset, which ultimately is dangerous for a lockerroom because that weak, selfish spirit can spread faster than a spirit bent on fully committing to competitiveness?

🎶 and it feels good - to be known - so well 🎶 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

It’s generally interesting to me how often you see “but all the other teams do so and so” used as reasoning for expected or desired conduct when the Sabres have so thoroughly proven themselves the outlier to which the usual does not apply, over a large sample size.

This statement itself is a generalization but basically I’m just saying I don’t think the Sabres have the luxury of yielding to anything just because “that’s the way it is”.

Up to and including things like the unusualness of dealing a prized prospect in the name of winning now, etc etc etc. Just to use an example of another area this logic theoretically applies 

Posters are picking me up here. I’ve been somewhat inarticulate on this subject on this go around (although I’ve explained it better elsewhere). 

I feel like I was getting a proverbial “nothing to see here.”

To which I say: Nah. There are things to see. And changes that need to occur.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

More less one of the steps you need to get to in joining the ranks of the good teams. “We have too many prospects for nhl spaces” isn’t a unique problem to Buffalo it’s the commonplace result of icing a competent roster. We are just HYPER unfamiliar. Those players don’t need to be in the NHL. If they need to be, they’d force their way 

block or not 

It’s the difference between the teams that say “ahhh injuries, what could we have even done?” And those that finish top 16

No I disagree. It's about roster construction and how you build your team. Show me one single playoff team right now whose forwards are almost all skilled offensive guys and their D is almost all fast offensively minded puck movers. There isn't one. You can't build a team this way, you just can't. 

[Thorny]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

No I disagree. It's about roster construction and how you build your team. Show me one single playoff team right now whose forwards are almost all skilled offensive guys and their D is almost all fast offensively minded puck movers. There isn't one. You can't build a team this way, you just can't. 

What I said doesn’t argue against your latest post 

[Second Line Center]

If we can get guys to waive NMCs we’re going to be in business.  

I’m 100 percent sure this has been a massive problem for Adams probably since last year’s trade deadline.  I refuse to believe they just have thought oh yea, just keep rolling with our young guys.  And resign Okposo and Zemgus bc no one wants them - those options were better than forcing a trade we probably were looking at overpaying and for a guy who didn’t want to come here anyway.    
 

The lack of significant moves not involving Jack or Samson - both trades we did not get the better player - this has to get fixed.  Trades for guys that have yet to have an NMC kick in doesn’t mean that’s the player we need.  This is a serious issue and I don’t know how you fix it.  
 

 

My suggestion is this - go after Crosby.  Instant, instant credibility brought back here.  I don’t even think it would cost that much.  11th, maybe 3 prospects.  Why wouldn’t Crosby do this?  His run there is over.   

That's how you get guys to come here.  
 

Probably a 2 percent chance of this but it’s time to think big.   

Edited May 9 by Second Line Center

[PerreaultForever]

58 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What I said doesn’t argue against your latest post 

yes it does.

(now you go "no it doesn't" and then we repeat)

[Thorny]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

yes it does.

(now you go "no it doesn't" and then we repeat)

I don’t understand but whatever. 

cutting to the chase -  my point was that I agree with your entire paragraph 

4 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

If we can get guys to waive NMCs we’re going to be in business.  

I’m 100 percent sure this has been a massive problem for Adams probably since last year’s trade deadline.  I refuse to believe they just have thought oh yea, just keep rolling with our young guys.  And resign Okposo and Zemgus bc no one wants them - those options were better than forcing a trade we probably were looking at overpaying and for a guy who didn’t want to come here anyway.    
 

The lack of significant moves not involving Jack or Samson - both trades we did not get the better player - this has to get fixed.  Trades for guys that have yet to have an NMC kick in doesn’t mean that’s the player we need.  This is a serious issue and I don’t know how you fix it.  
 

 

My suggestion is this - go after Crosby.  Instant, instant credibility brought back here.  I don’t even think it would cost that much.  11th, maybe 3 prospects.  Why wouldn’t Crosby do this?  His run there is over.   

That's how you get guys to come here.  
 

Probably a 2 percent chance of this but it’s time to think big.   

I would get the jersey 100%

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I don’t understand but whatever. 

cutting to the chase -  my point was that I agree with your entire paragraph 

I would get the jersey 100%

You need depth players that can actually play in the NHL and not cost you. This goes back to what I was saying about Rochester and too many kids and not enough veterans. 

[Thorny]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

You need depth players that can actually play in the NHL and not cost you. This goes back to what I was saying about Rochester and too many kids and not enough veterans. 

Yes. Nothing I said was even disagreeing with that. My post was about having nhl depth 

Edited May 9 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Yes. Nothing I said was even disagreeing with that. My post was about having nhl depth 

What I took from it was you saw young kids as depth and I'm saying that guys who aren't ready aren't depth. You are better off with journeymen and marginal vets. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

What I took from it was you saw young kids as depth and I'm saying that guys who aren't ready aren't depth. You are better off with journeymen and marginal vets. 

The ROSTER should be BPA. if a kid is good enough he can force his way on outright. 

I wasn’t saying  “kids as depth” i was saying “don’t be afraid to assemble nhl depth” as it helps withstand injuries

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

The ROSTER should be BPA. if a kid is good enough he can force his way on outright. 

I wasn’t saying  “kids as depth” i was saying “don’t be afraid to assemble nhl depth” as it helps withstand injuries

I don't agree. At this point I think you tweak your BPA list a little - A LITTLE - for need. Especially if free agents don't want to come here (the old debate) and you run into too many NTC players you can't trade for. So for example if the BPA is a small speedy winger from Sweden and 3 or 4 slots down is a big prairie workhorse who checks well and likes to scrap a little you say no thank you to the Swede. 

To the depth comment, yes. 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't agree. At this point I think you tweak your BPA list a little - A LITTLE - for need. Especially if free agents don't want to come here (the old debate) and you run into too many NTC players you can't trade for. So for example if the BPA is a small speedy winger from Sweden and 3 or 4 slots down is a big prairie workhorse who checks well and likes to scrap a little you say no thank you to the Swede. 

To the depth comment, yes. 

Lol reading comprehension again. I’m not using BPA in a drafting context, here. You’ve been attempting to have an argument with me for a few hours that I’m legitimately not having haha. It’s my fault as well, I shouldn’t have even used the term “ROSTER bpa” because it invited confusion: my point was it should be the best players we can ice (up to and including transactions we might make), rather than actively looking to find spots for rookies. They should absolutely be in the mix, but as I stated (I hoped it would make sense): the youth should have to force their way on. Yes, “best” still necessarily accounts for mix and a wanting to have a well balanced team 

Proper nhl depth results in rookies needing to bypass appropriate competition and also provides injury insurance 

Edited May 9 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

If we can get guys to waive NMCs we’re going to be in business.  

I’m 100 percent sure this has been a massive problem for Adams probably since last year’s trade deadline.  I refuse to believe they just have thought oh yea, just keep rolling with our young guys.  And resign Okposo and Zemgus bc no one wants them - those options were better than forcing a trade we probably were looking at overpaying and for a guy who didn’t want to come here anyway.    
 

The lack of significant moves not involving Jack or Samson - both trades we did not get the better player - this has to get fixed.  Trades for guys that have yet to have an NMC kick in doesn’t mean that’s the player we need.  This is a serious issue and I don’t know how you fix it.  
 

 

My suggestion is this - go after Crosby.  Instant, instant credibility brought back here.  I don’t even think it would cost that much.  11th, maybe 3 prospects.  Why wouldn’t Crosby do this?  His run there is over.   

That's how you get guys to come here.  
 

Probably a 2 percent chance of this but it’s time to think big.   

I thought about Crosby the other day too. No idea if he'd ever be available but Pittsburgh has to rebuild and we have enough pieces to execute that trade. 

[Slack_in_MA]

It's likely been discussed around here somewhere already, but who might be a quality trade target that has a good relationship with Lindy, e.g., someone he could "sell"/ talk out of a NMC?