SwampD Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Isn't this whole discussion about faceoffs kind of moot in regards to Vanek? Wasn't it Lindy himself who said, this year, that winning faceoffs(in certain situations) wasn't all that important anyway? The comment was discussed in a GDT for its :blink: factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Wasn't it Lindy himself who said, this year, that winning faceoffs(in certain situations) wasn't all that important anyway? *********** In context, I believe he has said they have certain plays designed to lose a draw to a certain side.....but that is in order to win possession deeper in the zone with the other teams help. Probably referring to plays from just outside the blue line where the opponent draws it back into his own defensive zone and the Sabres can pursue without being offsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Isn't this whole discussion about faceoffs kind of moot in regards to Vanek? Wasn't it Lindy himself who said, this year, that winning faceoffs(in certain situations) wasn't all that important anyway? The comment was discussed in a GDT for its :blink: factor. It's moot because being a winger who doesn't take very many faceoffs and/or isn't very good at it doesn't mean you can't kill penalties. See Pominville, Jason, who was one second behind Derek Roy for the team lead in average shorthanded ice time per game and had to take a shorthanded faceoff once every 12 games last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 In context, I believe he has said they have certain plays designed to lose a draw to a certain side.....but that is in order to win possession deeper in the zone with the other teams help. Probably referring to plays from just outside the blue line where the opponent draws it back into his own defensive zone and the Sabres can pursue without being offsides. He was trying to explain why you can't always go by the faceoff stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 In context, I believe he has said they have certain plays designed to lose a draw to a certain side.....but that is in order to win possession deeper in the zone with the other teams help. Probably referring to plays from just outside the blue line where the opponent draws it back into his own defensive zone and the Sabres can pursue without being offsides. It was actually deep in the opposing team's zone after an icing by the other team, late in a game where there would be maybe only one or two possessions left(:20?) to try and tie it up. It made me go :blink: then and it makes me go :blink: now. (yep, it was the same game that Vanek was on the bench for those one or two possessions left to try and tie it up. This might seem trivial, but we did miss the playoff by only two points) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 All this discussion regarding Vanek definitely raises more questions than answers. I hope this season is where we finally see Lindy begin to trust Thomas a bit more, and give him some more responsibilities. Give him some more time on the PK. Put him on the ice in the most important times of the game. I have to believe the more the kid plays, and the more responsibilities we bestow upon him, the better of a player he'll become. He's made progress thus far, and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Give him a shot to step up. It's always good to be tough on your best players; it may help motivate them to become better. However, after a certain amount of time, a player may begin to become discouraged and actually regress. I don't want that to be the case with Vanek. He's too important to this organization to allow that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 He was trying to explain why you can't always go by the faceoff stats. AKA Some guys start strong, but finish weak. pace your self. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Yeah, to no one's surprise, this thread is all about how Lindy Ruff has no clue how to coach talent. He's treating Vanek like the rusty nail that needs to be pounded down. "I'll turn this kid into an NHL player, just like me." No problem with Vanek's goal numbers so far, but he could be so much more, and would be so much more in another system, under another coach. I ask again. Is Alexander Ovechkin the same player with Ruff as coach? Are Crosby and Malkin? Didn't those organizations basically have to bring in coaches to get the hell out of the way? Do you really look at Vanek and see a guy who is on par with Ovechkin or Crosby but is being held back by a coach? I'll ask again: if Lindy can't coach offense, why were the Sabres in the top 5 in scoring for 3 years in a row? I'll ask another one again: why was Ruff chosen to coach the World Juniors and the Olympics? Would you rather Vanek become another Marian Hossa, or another Jason Blake? Isn't it possible that Vanek is a very talented athlete who has gotten by on his talent for his whole life, but has never had to bust his butt at both ends of the ice (like Crosby and Hossa do without being told), and now he's finally being made to do so, and losing ice time for failing to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Do you really look at Vanek and see a guy who is on par with Ovechkin or Crosby but is being held back by a coach?yes, but different I'll ask again: if Lindy can't coach offense, why were the Sabres in the top 5 in scoring for 3 years in a row? sarcasm on I'll ask another one again: why was Ruff chosen to coach the World Juniors and the Olympics? sarcasm on again? Would you rather Vanek become another Marian Hossa, or another Jason Blake? No, too vanilla Isn't it possible that Vanek is a very talented athlete who has gotten by on his talent for his whole life, but has never had to bust his butt at both ends of the ice (like Crosby and Hossa do without being told), and now it's finally being made to do so, and losing ice time for failing to do so? yes. it's time for many players to step up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Do you really look at Vanek and see a guy who is on par with Ovechkin or Crosby but is being held back by a coach?yes, but different I'll ask again: if Lindy can't coach offense, why were the Sabres in the top 5 in scoring for 3 years in a row? sarcasm on I'll ask another one again: why was Ruff chosen to coach the World Juniors and the Olympics? sarcasm on again? Would you rather Vanek become another Marian Hossa, or another Jason Blake? No, too vanilla Isn't it possible that Vanek is a very talented athlete who has gotten by on his talent for his whole life, but has never had to bust his butt at both ends of the ice (like Crosby and Hossa do without being told), and now it's finally being made to do so, and losing ice time for failing to do so? yes. it's time for many players to step up 1. I applaud your fanhood, but I can't agree. Also can't tell if you agree with the "held back by coach" part. 2 and 3 -- not sarcasm so much as rhetorical questions -- but I think valid ones for those claiming Lindy has no clue how to coach talent. 4. My point was to distinguish an elite forward who has scored 80+ points 4 times in his career (including over 90 twice and over 100 once) from an overpaid flash-in-the-pan goalscorer. You may find Hossa not to your liking, but he's a great player. If Vanek becomes as good as Hossa the Sabres will be very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Do you really look at Vanek and see a guy who is on par with Ovechkin or Crosby but is being held back by a coach? I'll ask again: if Lindy can't coach offense, why were the Sabres in the top 5 in scoring for 3 years in a row? I'll ask another one again: why was Ruff chosen to coach the World Juniors and the Olympics? Would you rather Vanek become another Marian Hossa, or another Jason Blake? Isn't it possible that Vanek is a very talented athlete who has gotten by on his talent for his whole life, but has never had to bust his butt at both ends of the ice (like Crosby and Hossa do without being told), and now he's finally being made to do so, and losing ice time for failing to do so? Do you really see anywhere in this thread where I said Vanek was on par with Ovechkin and Crosby? I refuse to play the Straw Man game. Sorry, I didn't read the rest of your post. Well, I did, but I feel like being overly dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Do you really see anywhere in this thread where I said Vanek was on par with Ovechkin and Crosby? I refuse to play the Straw Man game. Sorry, I didn't read the rest of your post. Well, I did, but I feel like being overly dramatic. OK, pardon my inference. Good witticism at the end there. You do need to respond to those questions though if you want to make a good anti-Lindy case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 OK, pardon my inference. Good witticism at the end there. You do need to respond to those questions though if you want to make a good anti-Lindy case. We're sorry. All customer service agents are currently serving other customers. Please stay on the line, and your call will be answered in the order it was received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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