JohnRobertEichel

I also notice that a lot of us are assuming we won't have the cap space to afford the market value for Kane + Eichel + Reinhart, but has anyone here actually crunched the numbers? Even supposing that we're stuck with Ennis + Gorges + Bogosian + Moulson for the entirety of their contracts, Gorges is coming off the books next year, Ennis and Moulson in 2, and Bogo in 3. Is Botterill a trained capologist?

So one more time now: we're going to be penny-pinchers with the team's leading goal scorer entering his prime years, hoping for maybe a middle-pair defenseman and/or a completely unproven 18-year old or two in return, while Ennis + Bogosian + Gorges + Moulson still exist on the payroll?

Ah yes, Buffalo sports....where rebuilding isn't a temporary phase but a geological epoch. I don't think the Bills have ZERO chance of making the playoffs. Assuming a healthy Brady, yes I'd agree that the Bills are really competing with 11 other teams for 2 wild card spots. But many of those 11 other teams are actually less talented than the Bills. A Watkins-Maclin-Jones-Holmes-Ross-Tate WR group would be among the very best in the league. I'd like to see more roster depth at DE and in the secondary, but otherwise I'm actually okay with the talent on the team. Taylor isn't elite, but he's probably the best we've had since Kelly. And McDermott is likely going to be a better coach than the Ryan idiots. Please tell me which specific guaranteed franchise QB's in the 2018 NFL draft we will get by tanking. And do consider that several other teams already have a major head start on the tanking process (NY Jets, for example).

Neither Reinhart nor Kane should be traded unless a definitive top-50 NHL defenseman is part of the return. And this is not very likely, even with the expansion draft complicating things. Just think about what we sacrificed for each of these guys: 1. Reinhart: the entire 2013-14 tank season. 2. Kane: essentially 4 1st round picks, a high 2nd round pick, and Bogosian's awful contract. Both have their flaws, but they are still major talents who have proven that they can produce at the pro level. Moreover, they are both very young and still have plenty of room to grow, especially with better coaching. I'm inclined to keep talent rather than get rid of it. Enough with the stupid trade proposals.

Meh. I'm hoping Pitt wins these next two now, just to get this over with as fast as possible.

What makes you say this? I'm not saying you're wrong, but this seems to be a definite minority opinion. I'm not familiar with the goaltending situations around the league. Which teams can offer better career prospects than Buffalo? The fact that our new GM has little emotional investment in Lehner probably helps our recruiting a lot.

I think your top 8 is the closest thing to a consensus top 8 out there. Not the particular order, but just the guys: 3 D and 5 C. Liljegren, Mittelstadt, and Glass are probably the only ones who have a realistic chance to fall to us at # 8.

While I sort of agree with this, threads on esoteric Sabres topics like this one are actually what make this message board interesting to me. If you aren't interested in the topic, simply avoid it. To be honest, the only reason I clicked here was because of the anticipation of a juicy Gloria Estefan joke. I leave here disappointed.

I was waiting for someone to post this. I sincerely believe that Bogosian is one of the players Eichel was calling out at the end of the season. He's a locker room cancer and needs to go. I don't care about his physical talents. I don't care about his draft pedigree. I don't care about the poor coaching excuses. I care about his effort and his on-ice performance, both of which were sub-standard. Throw in his penchant for injuries and his absurd contract, and I say let this big dumb horse run...right the out of Buffalo.

Aside from the Bylsma issue, how history will judge Murray depends a lot on the outcome of the O'Reilly, Lehner, and Kane trades. He gave up quite a large number of assets in a short amount of time. Some of those assets, if kept, could have gone toward quality defensemen that could have saved this season and his job. However, it should also be noted that no draft pick Murray traded ever ended up being higher than the 21st overall pick. O'Reilly, Lehner, and Kane are already proven starters in this league and still have lots of room to grow. None of Pysyk, McNabb, Zadorov, or Weber are likely to end up as top-2 defensemen at this point. And none of Grigorenko, Armia, Lemieux, Compher look to be top-6 NHL forwards. Was Murray the right man for the job at the right time? Maybe. His trade aggression was a breath of fresh air compared to the overly timid Regier. The winners of trades are usually the GM's who received the best player. O'Reilly, Lehner, and Kane all may end up as top-100 NHL players who play critical roles in future Cup-contending Sabres teams. Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here.... I still think Murray could have saved himself by firing Bylsma and having some coherent answer to Pegula's question of how he was going to fix the team. But I am ready to move on and look forward to Mr. Botterill, if some of the rumors are to be believed.

Ok, fair enough, but keep in mind my argument for top-5 potential was based on two conditions: 1. Important players stay reasonably healthy (Watkins, Clay, McCoy). 2. Rookies and second-year players are as good as projected when they were drafted (Williams, Jones, Dawkins). We may have already upgraded the top 4 WR positions. A healthy Watkins beats an injured Watkins. Many think Jones will be a better player than Robert Woods. Listenbee is a taller, sturdier, better route-running speed WR than Glass Goodwin. Holmes looks to be a more complete red-zone WR than Hunter. The way McCoy runs, he doesn't take as much wear and tear as some of the more north-south power backs do. And these power backs like Karlos Williams and Gillislee have been taking their fair share of the carries the past two years. And McCoy was a top-5 NFL RB last season. Clay has been a non-factor largely due to injuries. Even still, over the past two seasons he has managed to be one of the most productive TE's this franchise has ever had. Taylor has now had an extra season of experience. And hopefully the new coaching staff is more organized and competent than the previous. Last year's offense ranked 10th in points and 16th in yards. So top-5 seems plausible to me, even if unlikely.

Getting a bit away from the new GM talk, I was scanning the Bills roster and have come to the conclusion that - on paper at least - this might be the best offense the team has had since the early 90's. If vets like McCoy, Watkins, and Clay can stay healthy and new guys like Jonathan Williams, Zay Jones, and Dion Dawkins perform as expected, this could be a legitimate top 5 NFL offense. And such a feat would be all the more impressive without a Hall of Fame caliber QB. What's most notable is the quality of the offensive line. It took nearly 25 years, but the franchise finally addressed it (a late 1st rounder, three 2nd rounders, and three 3rd rounders among the top 8).

Hard to believe, but once upon a time the playoffs were more exciting than the draft.

Exactly. Well said. I don't even think a major trade is necessary. The 8th overall pick, two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders, Antipin, a couple other modest free agents, and a competent head coach who is the opposite of Bylsma will probably be enough to make the playoffs next season and set the franchise on a course to be a long-term perennial contender. Just off the top of my head, I can go 5 deep at each forward position plus goalie: LW: Kane, Ennis, Girgensons, Carrier, Foligno C: Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly, Asplund, Larsson RW: Nylander, Okposo, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching G: Lehner, Petersen, Nilsson, Ullmark, Johansson Defense is admittedly a little more difficult. This is the best I can do at the moment: Kulikov - Ristolainen McCabe - Bogosian Guhle - Borgen We will probably want to replace Kulikov, Bogosian, and Borgen with better players in addition to adding defensemen prospect depth. But I'm not at all convinced a major trade out of desperation is necessary. Especially if Heiskanen drops to us or if Liljegren or Valimaki project to top-pair LHD.

And don't forget the Buffalo Bills. Tom Donahoe (2001-2005) and Doug Whaley (2010-2017) came from the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise. FOURTH time's the charm!

Interesting. I'm warming up to Botterill. And it looks like the Penguins have a good shot at winning their 3rd Stanley Cup in 9 years.

So who are the top-8 worthy defensemen? Makar, Heiskanen, Liljegren...anyone else? And which of the 7 teams ahead of us are in danger of picking a defenseman?

I'm ok with this new draft philosophy. Since the 21st century began, we've seen the Bills waste 1st round picks on guys like Flowers, Losman, McCargo, Maybin, and Manuel....guys that no other sane NFL GM had graded as 1st round material.

Exactly. So much negativity around here lately. I COMPLETELY understand it and am guilty of a fair amount of it as well. However, also consider that we get the privilege of drafting a top-9 player for the 5th straight time. In a now 31-team league with a distribution of >620 professional players, that is some serious concentration of young hockey talent. Kane and Okposo make a total of 7 top 9 draft picks soon to be on the 20-man roster (not counting Bogosian for obvious reasons). Before 2013, the Sabres had only drafted top 9 10 times: 1970: Perreault (#1) 1971: Martin (#5) 1972: Schoenfeld (#5) 1982: Housley (#6) 1982: Cyr (#9) 1983: Barrasso (#5) 1986: Anderson (#5) 1987: Turgeon (#1) 1996: Rasmussen (#7) 2003: Vanek (#5) By my count, that's a 70% historical success rate for high-end top-9 hockey talent (88% for top-6), and I'd argue that we can expect an even higher probability of success at the top of the draft given modern scouting standards. Now I fully realize that a high draft pick doesn't necessarily equal high quality, a low draft pick doesn't necessarily equal lesser quality, etc... All I'm saying is that this is a unique time in Sabres franchise history in that we have never collected so much high-end physical hockey talent in such a short time span. And that's quite obviously because we have never truly bottomed out for any sustained period of time like we have during the past 5 seasons. I'm excited to see what a competent GM with a coherent vision - as well as a competent HC who coaches a team based on the talent and not on a rigid system - can do with all of this young talent. Apologies for the semi-coherent late-night rant. I was just disheartened to see so many fellow Sabres fans so indifferent to this year's draft. Even if there's no obvious McDavid/Eichel/Matthews/Laine this year, there's still a lot of high-quality talent for the taking at the top of the first round.

Point taken. I have been ambivalent about Tyrod's future as a starting NFL QB. However, I really liked what I saw in the final Miami home game with Watkins, Woods, and Clay all healthy (enough) and on the field. He definitely spread the ball around and attacked the middle portion of the field with some confidence. I want to give Tyrod one more year and give him another legitimate receiving weapon to complement Watkins and Clay before making a final judgment. I completely understand those who are ready to move on, but I'm not quite there yet. We've already been through 20 straight seasons of QB purgatory. I can handle one more year.

Update: I'm demoting Allen, dropping Foster, promoting Lattimore, and adding Derek Barnett. 1. Garrett 2. Adams 3. Hooker 4. Thomas 5. Allen 6. Lattimore 7. Barnett 8. Howard 9. Davis 10. Williams

I voted for Norm Maciver and am hoping for a Maciver/Housley ticket. What's really appealing about Maciver is that he has been there since the beginning of the great Kane/Toews Blackhawks dynasty that has made the playoffs 9 straight times, reached the Conference Finals for 5 of those times, and won 3 Stanley Cups. Looking back at Sabres history, you'll notice that we like to draw GM's from the great dynasties in NHL history (Imlach from the 60's Leafs, Bowman from the 70's Canadiens, Muckler from the 80's Oilers, Regier from Al Arbour's Islanders). I think this is the way to do it: promote guys who have first-hand experience building NHL franchises from the bottom to the very top and staying at the top for a sustained period of time. Pros for Housley: high character guy, has paid his dues coaching at all levels of hockey (high school, juniors, international, NHL), has knowledge and credentials to rebuild our defense and open up our style of offense, works well with young hockey players, Sabres connection doesn't hurt.

Agreed. When you move every Sabre to their most natural position, our projected RW franchise depth looks like this: 1. Okposo 2. Bailey 3. Baptiste 4. Fasching 5. minor leaguers and over-the-hill vets No one below Okposo projects to a top 6 NHL forward, and you also have to assume one of the #2-4 that I listed won't work out. So yes, RW is a need position too. I would rather use a top 9 pick on BPA rather than reach for a defenseman, and Owen Tippett happens to be a guy who could fit as both BPA and an area of need.

Gorges deserves to be in this category because he is a terrible professional hockey player at this stage of his career, and he will be making $4 million next season. It doesn't matter if he averages 20 minutes on the ice or 16 minutes. Any time greater than 0 minutes is too much time on the ice for him. His leadership skills are also vastly overrated. All he did this season was complain about how much it sucks being on a team that sucks. Wow. Great leadership. So inspirational. Kulikov doesn't make this list because he's an unrestricted free agent next season and is therefore no longer a salary cap concern.

Your opinion is suspect and lacks supporting evidence. You are going to have a difficult time defending a GM whose team is right up to the salary cap and yet finished 5th worst in the league standings. That is a very poor return-on-investment no matter how you slice it. I'll tell you what, though: this thread was really meant to get everyone's attention, not to run Murray out of town just yet. His resume with Anaheim and Ottawa justified a chance as an NHL GM. Get 2-3 of the guys I mentioned out of here this summer, re-sign Kane, have a good 2017 draft, trade for a good d-man, make the playoffs next season...I'll go back to defending him.