FrenchConnection44

Are you saying you agree with me that we need size and grit players, who are a few badass players? If so we are fine. The problem is—which you completely ignore—is every time someone brings up size (meaning size and toughness) you denigrate it. But no one is simply arguing for size. They are arguing for tough players with size. Are you saying you think that Zach Benson could put this kind of hit on McDavid as well? And be tough enough to handle himself when someone comes after him? That is grit and size. physicality. And they have the horses to put not only hits on players but if anyone starts something they aren’t going to get beat down so bad they take a year to get the little grit they had back (as with the “workhorse from whitehorse”). Benson doesn’t have the size or the level of nasty grit that is required for this. That is not to say Benson isn’t a nice player. But he is far from a first line player. He doesn’t have the grit they need to do the dirty work. And he is no Brad Marchand. Who is a rarity. Once in a generation. Benson is never going to be an 80-100 minute a year penalty player because he agitates guys Take Pat Maroon. He polices the ice for the Lightning when they were winning. And there isn’t anyone like that on this team and that is exactly what the Sabres need among other items. Nor is there a Victor Hedman who is so rugged no one is going to challenge him. My point all along, for a couple of years, (as well as others on here), has been that we need toughness of all sizes but also size and physicality to go with it. Not every player has to be big. Not every player has to be able to stand up to other teams’ tough guys. But the Sabres need several players with physicality and size to handle the likes of a Tkachuk. And to go into corners and have the strength to take the puck away or protect it. Or to physically dominate at times. If they want to be competitive for a Cup. They haven’t been physically dominant or had a player of that type since Evander Kane left.

2 former Sabres in the top 5. Fail. 🤦‍♂️ Speaking of coaches and coaching staffs (obviously has talent on the team, but still).

Barkov is a beast. So strong. There is no one on the Sabres who is close to having the strength, skill, and skating ability to be able to make that play.

I wouldn’t doubt that for several that is a crucial factor. Still, I suspect there are many who are choosing not to because of the absurd, political climate the orange megalomaniac despot has created.

Totally. He’s a dysfunctional owner. Seems like he’s got some sort of personality problem or something.

You are nothing if not an expert in employing the Straw Man fallacy. I’m not equating size with toughness, nor am I saying we need only 6’2, 220 players. Never have said that. So you’ve had enough practice with the straw man. What I am saying is that you still need tough guys with size to be able to handle the physicality in the NHL - in checking and enforcing — and to be able to take on other teams players when they go after one of our guys. you keep touting Zach Benson as though he’s the next Marchand or something. He’s not. He’s not a tough guy. There’s not a single player on the Sabres or in their farm system with both the size and toughness who’s gonna take on the likes of a Tkachuk or Reaves or Xhekaj. Or several other players in a similar mold. It’s not the only thing but it’s a factor. Just look at the history of hockey dude - instead of filling your constant need to stroke your ego with a contrarian mentality. It is also not just fighting but the willingness to go after guys, beat on them and not be afraid to handle their own business. To defend your teammates when someone goes after them. We need several of them. We have none. Even if Benson were a mean SOB, he’s not going to be able to handle a Tkachuk or other player who could pummel his 5’10, 170 lb frame— he’s not a physical player. You can have all the 5’9, 170 pound players you want — you still are going to need some bigger, mean guys so that you can get after others. And I’m not arguing as I’ve said many times before in multiple posts that every player has to be 6’4 240 who can punch like Mike Tyson. The fact that this has to be spelled out for you in detail only unveils the hubris. this team needs multiple physical, tough players that teammates will respect, to up their intensity and physicality. They need to trade some of the softer players, especially the big ones who are soft and don’t really bring any physicality to their game, like Power or Samuelsson. and certainly they can still utilize smaller players who are quick or who are pesky, no one is arguing. They don’t need those guys so stop exaggerating everybody’s argument out of context and employing straw man arguments about size. The very fact that this needs to be spelled out for you in so much detail just shows the lack of integrity in the argument you’re proffering. there is no problem with any number of 5’9 180 pound players. But a successful team needs players with length, strength, size, and physical toughness and nastiness. They don’t have to all be fighters. If they are great. But every GM in this league (aside from perhaps the Sabres GM) would kill to have a Zdeno Chara or Victor Hedman.

I mentioned Marchand in the post as a once in a generation exception because he is small. I don’t have to look it up. He is 5’9. Real slow, take some remedial reading lessons. 😝 But Marchand is less an enforcer and more of an agitator and instigator. Look up the difference. And he has played on teams with larger enforcers throughout his career, which helps. Like Chara or AJ Greer, or Trent Frederic, or Tkachuk. Bennett is a tough player whom any team could use including the Sabres but he’s not an enforcer. Though he is 6’1 and close to 200. But he is also playing on a team with other guys who will mix it up. Tkachuk, however is both agitator and enforcer. However, Buffalo has no one who is any of the above. Look at the entire roster. Not one. They have 1-2 pesky players like Benson or Krebs but neither are mean enough or strong enough or intimidating or dirty enoughto be a Marchand. Not one player on last year’s roster is anything like Marchand — who plays dirty and gets in cheap shots— nor anything close to a Tkachuk or even Greer. Benson plays with a smile on his face most the time. If you think he or Helenius are the next Marchand who are going to get multiple — what is it, 8-10?— suspensions for dirty play, good luck with that! And no one on this team is like an AJ Greer or a Tkachuk or even Bennett. Who is more of just a tough agitator than pure enforcer. A team needs both. They need 3-4 guys who are tough and get under the skin of opponents. A couple can be smaller. But a couple at least need to be physically capable of both intimidating and handling things should one of their players take a cheap shot. 1-2 5’10 guys who are mean SOBs are great. You still need 1-2 players that no one really wants to mess with — and you know if you take a shot at Thompson or Peterka — you better be ready cause you are going to get taken on. The problem with your argumentation on this is you create an exaggerated false dilemma (which turns into ad hominem) toward anyone who says the Sabres need an enforcer with size and power (which they do), by either pointing out an exception to the rule. Like Marchand (whom I noted as an a generational exception in terms of size). But a Marchand or Tiger Williams come along once ever 25-30 years. If that. And Marchand was never pure enforcer. Or that those who argue for an enforcer are saying we only need bigger players. They do need bigger, tougher players but that’s not the sole point being made. One could go down the line of tough physical players on the Panthers, whose identity really changed when Tkachuk arrived as an enforcer. But it’s Tkachuk, Greer, Mikkola, Bennett, and recently Marchand. The Sabres don’t have even one of those. 3 are big enough and willing to take on most anyone, four are 6’1 plus, and two (Tkachuk & Marchand) are nearly insane rabid maniacs when the set foot on the ice. Even the Oilers have a couple of those types on their team in Kane, Frederic, or Nurse. All big enough and mean enough to handle themselves in a scuffle. And willing to.

And this. Sorry for those who think size and toughness don’t matter. You have to have someone like Tkachuk on your team. And Marchands only comes around once ever quarter century or so. The Sabres need a couple of tough guys to deal with people like this and their players as a whole need to get tougher.

This Panthers team reminds me of a modern — present hockey culture — version of the Philadelphia Flyers at their peak in the mid 70s. Known as the broad street bullies that was not why they won. They were a tough team. Grind it out. Had scorers and could play 200 feet and annoy teams. That’s what the Panthers do. They have offensive talent but they have some really tough forward in Barkov, Tkachuk, etc.

It is probably a style of game that our group can’t play well without a lot of change imo. But I think we can move closer to that if we can get some rugged players. Who play hard nosed and create a tougher culture.

I’m fine with trading Power and/or Samuelsson and trying to bring in a physical defender with size and quality defensive metrics. We need a culture change there. I’d be good with keeping Byram over Power. If we can add a top 4 defender who actually defends I’d also like to see Novikov get a full chance to compete for a top 6 spot. If he works this off season like he did last - he should be improved even more and close to ready. I’d also like to see Komarov get a shot - another solid young defender. But I think he’s a year a way. Still I think he has Novikov could be two important defensive cogs for the future. Possibly one this next year.

But even without the losing that was the good old days as you say. Now with teams with tons of money in places like Tampa and Miami, and even Carolina, Dallas, etc., and with state of the art facilities, those are no longer vacation spots but where players are able to live. Add to that the fact that Florida (Texas is the same deal) has no state income tax and if you are signing a quality player he’s going to be in the 10% state tax range for NY. So at minimum you are going to have to beat an offer from teams in those states over 10% higher just to be even. To say nothing of the facilities and lifestyle. There is just no way to compete unless Pegula puts the kind of effort into the Sabres org that he has into the Bills org. Both facilities and management. As it is he treats the Sabres like a step child he has to tolerate.

And how about that play by Novikov? If we can get Novikov (+28 for the regular season) and Komarov to continue to develop we might actually have some quality defenders. With size and length. Add in Helenius and we can develop into a better all around and feistier team. But those guys have to come on fast. I still would be willing to trade Power & Samuelsson (feel like we need to for a culture change) and try to add a physical defenseman. Who plays strong defense.

We might still have not ended up doing well in the lottery, but I still think we would regret not giving ourselves the chance to draft in the top 4-5, especially with a kid like Martone. If the end of season success, when there was no pressure, doesn't translate to next season, just as it hasn't in the past, all the "this is great, we are winning games," Feels many were having will mean zero. Except more frustration. Personally, I take no solace in meaningless regular season wins. Btw, here's ESPN's take on Martone (some here were arguing he doesn't have physicality to go with his frame; I just don't agree with that). 4. Porter Martone RW, Brampton Steelheads (OHL) The 6-3 right winger projects as a high-end second-line player with a competitive streak reminiscent of Corey Perry and Tom Wilson. A big, physical forward, Martone is a dual-threat offensive player with ability to score on his own and facilitate. His competitive nature will make him an effective agitator, and he will physically impose himself on opponents. He needs to hone his competitiveness and physicality to increase his effectiveness, and adjust his skating posture to become a more efficient skater. His unique combination of scoring ability, size and hard skill make him a very attractive prospect. While his most confident projection is a top-six forward, Martone has a legitimate chance to become a top-line winger if his skating improves. If McQueen falls to us, which he could due to the injury, that will be a high risk / high reward player given his lack of playing time and the injury but that too could be a stroke of good fortune--though I suspect someone will take a shot before he gets to us. But, dang, picking 9th just sucks relative to how the team played most of the seasons (which was a bottom 4-5 squad).

I'm down with this hire. He was near his last legs on a flawed team with a minor league coach when he was here. I'd prefer Jordan Staal but I'll take him. He's been in many a playoff and won the Stanley Cup with Carolina. And he knows the league. Better than not hiring someone.

If he knows his stuff, this will be a good thing. Much of the team needs to get bigger, stronger, and develop more endurance and speed as a whole.

Do I want to search for that? No. Do fans who don’t have hours in the day to do that want to? No. Did I want to tune in and see the combos on ESPN ahead of time? Yes. They didn’t show that. I’m not laying around on my butt in my parents basement spending time looking up that. I work for a living, sometimes 60+ hours, and I have innumerable responsibilities with kids and grandkids. I want to tune in, see exactly what is going on with my team, explained clearly, and know what the numbers mean each time they’re drawn. they didn’t explain any of that. Until the fourth ball was drawn, and then, we have lower odds in the penguins! The NBA does the lottery without any problem. That was classic NHL nonsense.

Nonsense. It took a year out of Dylan Cozens and who knows if he will fully recover. And the fact is the entire Sabres team is intimidated and unwilling to take on tough guys who go after them because they are intimidated. If you don’t think they need a tough player who can take on anybody and protect the better players, then you’re either just being an *-**** contrarian, which is typical, or you are insanely naïve. Just watch the playoffs and how Florida manhandled Tampa Bay. That stuff matters. Both football and hockey are two sports where intimidation still does happen. It may not be to the same degree as in the past, nor are there pure goons like Dave Schulz , but it still matters.

WTH was that BS lottery? Nobody knew exactly what those numbers meant at the start and what the numbers we needed to get, until the fourth draw. And the rest of the way it made no sense either. It was just such a bizarro system. That had to be the most absurd lottery draw system I’ve ever seen. Come on. Of course we get screwed. Bettman should be sent to Gnome, Alaska to dig dirt. After he cuts through the ice.

I.e., he intimidates precisely zero players on the ice.

Watching the Panthers play the Lightning is a great example of why the Sabres need a lot more grit and toughness. That they just don’t have dudes like that. They need really three or four guys who play with an edge and can be intimidating. A guy like Tkachuk.

Agreed. Just being facetious

Benson is a fan favorite and really smart player with great instincts. I don’t see the comp to O’Reilly who is bigger and stronger. He can hang in front of the net. Nor the comp to Marchand who is much more physical and tougher. And has a real edge to his game with dirty play. He’s mean. And an agitator not afraid to rough it up. Marchand also probably really goes only 5’7 and still around 180. Dude is a small bowling ball. The challenges for Benson are multiple: he doesn’t skate really fast; he doesn’t have a powerful shot; doesn’t have really strong hands or handle or ability to rocket passes; and he doesn’t really have size or strength or power for the corners, or the mean / angry streak to match up. He’s got great hockey sense. Tricky good defensive stick skills (except for a shot and strong hands). Now, if he gained 10-15 pounds of muscle, developed his shot and stronger passing, improved his skating speed, or became more physical in the corners he could really become a very good player. But he has a lot of work to do to become a significant player imo. He’s a kid in a man’s game right now and it may take 3 more years and some adversity to get there. The fact is, most of our players play like Junior or college kids. Benson is the poster boy. They don’t play like men. Two or three of those on a team are fine. But it takes men to win in the NHL.

Eklund has to be the obvious pick, right? 5’11, 161. He’s the perfect finesse player to go with the other 18 finesse skaters on the team and the 15 finesse prospects we have in the system. No brainer. Especially if we want to hit 15 straight years.

Because the league prohibits that through the CBA. It is how it is in every team sport. Team facilities are open for players to train and trainers are allowed to interact with players at the player’s request during regular hours. But they cannot even make appointments with players and no team staff are allowed to contact and work with players during the off season except for the league specified conditioning camp and training camp.