Pokey Jones

and here I thought this thread was going to be about what you do if you are stuck watching a Dan Bylsma coached hockey team......... :rolleyes:

I simply think he was a better center than a winger. Give him a clearly defined role as a third line center with 2-way responsibility and i think you will see him put up good solid numbers.

Ok fair enough. I'm not as meticulous or detailed on these things as some of you so it's not all on Murray. I just think he did a piss poor job but it doesn't matter he's gone. I guess I just center my thought on the team when he arrived was called a bad team with huge potential and a stocked draft cupboard. 3 Years later a bad team and the cupboard is called bare by NHL insiders and experts. Go figure. I hope Housley can make Guhle great.

Housley's system. Fast aggressive hockey that attacks the opposition. A mobile D. Might not happen right away, but I at least hope to sees glimpses of what is to come.

Which ones am I thinking of? Pretty much every call up over the past 2 seasons. Fasching, Rodrigues, Baptiste, Bailey, and so on. All of them in the 20-25 age group or thereabouts.

It is true that there could be a surprise and some of the young guys could still develop. 3-5 years is not wrong BUT what I base my comment on is not seeing much upside in those guys at this point. Usually you see a guy who has moments of brilliance or he has this strength and that weakness but you see this moment or two when he's up that gives you hope. I didn't see many of those. Most of those guys showed a lot less than I'd have expected at this stage. Rodriguez has the wheels so I have hope for him, but overall I see mediocre at best with most of them. I am, as I said, a pessimist on the current roster. I don't think it was all Bylsma's fault. I think he was forced to play that way cause so few of our guys can actually put the puck in the net. If I saw more guys that had a weakness but ALSO a strength I might not be so hard on my evaluation of Murray.

Totally agree, especially with North Buffalo. Guy was way too young to have to log the kind of minutes they made him play. Housley will turn him into a superstar, I am sure of it.

I can't accept this idea that "oh well, nobody in the later rounds is likely to make it" . Success in later rounds is what separates good teams from bad. Why were the Oilers so bad despite first overall picks for years before they lucked into McDavid? By picking rubbish in all the later rounds. Why did Detroit have such a long run of playoff teams? Cause they found Zetterberg in the 7th and Datsyuk in the 6th. Murray couldn't even find us a new Paul Gaustad (7th rounder) and even the 2nd rounders who were high picks haven't amounted to much yet alone the 3rd or 4th. While you obviously won't find a Hornqvist in the 7th round every year to help you win a cup finding even a few diamonds in the rough now and again will make all the difference in the world to a team's development. Murray just gave away our wealth of picks in poor trades and drafted poorly with the picks he kept. The O'Reilly deal is the only thing I can think of that Murray did right. I was so happy when they finally axed him.

I would trade him while we still can. One trick pony, injury prone, inconsistent effort and all that other off ice stuff that may be a bad influence on the kids.

Murray didn't do a lousy job drafting in later rounds? Give me the names of the players drafted by him after round 1 that have put up numbers and are considered solid NHL starters? I count..............none.

Not convinced Jack wants to be a Sabre for his career. The way this team has been run why would he?

If it was a multi player deal centered on Reinhart for Duchene I would be all for it. Definitely not going to give them any promising D men as we are thin at best in that department already or McCabe. They can have a bunch of the never gonna be more than average guys we have going up and down from Rochester though. Not the kids. I would have to think he has a relationship with O'Reilly though and he might be involved in convincing him to sign a contract extension if they make a deal at all.

At this point Nylander looks soft and lazy. Not as good as his brother in Toronto who also looks pretty soft. But he is still young and he has the wheels so I won't give up on him just yet. The dream is Kane gets his head screwed on right and Alex develops desire and a scoring touch and then Jack can center those two guys into a solid top line.

I totally get that idea but I don't think the theory and the reality add up. Some players are just better at one forward position over another. Sure. in theory, a center can be a winger but most of the guys we have just haven't looked as good on the wing. I won't get into Middlestadt cause he is simply an unknown until he plays at the pro level but Girgensens, Larson, even Reinhart are all better at center. The only solid and proven true wingers we have are Okposo and Kane (although I have issues with him for different reasons). Pomminstein now too I guess but it remains to be seen how much he can still bring at this stage. To my mind if you want this team to be competitive you want these 4 true centers in order: Eichel, O'Reilly, Girgensens and Larrson. (I am taking cap, style and role into that not just the 4 most talented guys). Eichel has to assume the number one scoring line obviously, then O'Reilly can step back his ice time and be what he actually is: the best SECOND line center in the league. They both need solid wingers to play with them. Speedier and more skilled with Eichel and fast but grittier and more 2-way with O'Reilly. Those two lines can then go up against the best from the other team. The third line should be fast but scrappy. 2-way players who can be a threat. Girgensens is made for that. The 4th line grit and heart. I just don't see Reinhart fitting into that and some of the other centers haven't shown me enough on the wing to fit in either. So I would have already traded Reinhart for more D, while he is still young, before the rest of the league realizes he is never gonna get where he was expected to be. The true measure of JBot will be how they draft in later rounds. This is where they have failed miserably under Murray. A few years back this team had "the most prospects", the "cupboard was full" and now the opposite is true. Can't think of a single later round guy who has come in and impressed. Pittsburgh, on the other hand, had several so if he had a hand in any of those picks maybe we will be ok in time. lol - not sure what sort of typo that was on Pomminstein. Maybe it can be a new nickname :)

Don't worry about Edmonton long term, their GM screwed up the Bruins' cap numbers and he's well on the way to doing it again in Edmonton. I honestly don't think the issue with Jack will be the money but rather the term.

Guess I'm a pessimist but no way does this team make the playoffs as is. It's going to take time to change the culture, change the style. Nylander didn't look even close to ready last year so unless he makes huge leaps don't count on him stepping into a starring role just yet. The D is much better but that doesn't say much. It'll take time to learn Housley's system as it's a complete 180 from what they've been doing. Big time growing pains. I still expect MANY moves before we get fully going in the right direction. Too many guys who are basically the same mediocre guy. Too many centers. Time to stop just sticking centers on the wing and move a few of them for actual wingers.

Reinhart is cheap comparatively but I just don't see the potential. I see him as a second line player at best. Just my opinion. Risto is very underrated. Only D man on the team other teams would covet. Girgensons imo has been ruined by Bylsma. He should have been and still could be a solid 3rd line center, not a winger.

The thing about Jack that gives me hope is I remember watching so many games last year of dull uninspired hockey, almost always behind and no remote scoring chances outside of that power play (that was pretty good) and then suddenly he'd just make an odd move or take an impossible shot and score and I'd think "holy crap, how'd he do that?" If we don't sign him long term and build a real team around him we might as well blow it all up now and start yet again.

I don't know what he's actually worth as the team around him was so bad we have no real sense of how good he can be. All I know is they have to lock him down for the long term and hope it works. Myself, I expect his numbers to go way up if Housley can get this team playing with the kind of speed and quick puck movement I know in theory, he wants them to do. Can't count the number of times last year Jack was alone with no one to pass to, no one moving at his deceptive pace. Have to get Reinhart off his wing and find someone who can skate with him and develop chemistry at a higher tempo.

Inconsistent is the word that comes to mind with Lehner. He can have a great game or part of a game but he is not the kind of guy you can rely on to make the key save in a 2-2 3rd period tie. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Also feel he is moody and temperamental. (or maybe just "mental" :))