Pokey Jones

I took a break today. Watched the Hawks beat the Habs in Montreal's home opener. Decent hockey with good efforts. Saw the end of the Flyers playing the Preds. Flyers got screwed at the end by the refs but that was a high energy game in the 3rd. Flyers seem to be vastly improved from last year. Their draft picks looked good. Patrick (2nd overall) looks much better than Reinhart did at this stage of his career. The luck of placing well in the lottery, but also better drafting. Decent hockey, it was refreshing.

Yes, you can't just look back and blame the tank. We were not good before the tank. We have simply drafted poorly for years and now it shows. So no, nobody wants to tank again on purpose, but if you don't get rid of the crap and the quitters and change the culture, then you'll never get out of this. We simply have to accept that the last rebuild was crap and we need to start over and try it again. Get it right this time. Tweaks and half measures won't get us there.

Ok, as a "fan" don't hold them accountable. Go to the games. Buy a few jerseys (watch out if there's a name on the back, it might need replacing). Keep supporting them with your cash. It's worked so far, why change now.

But if you rid yourself of a bunch of slacker veterans who quit on you are you "tanking" or actually trying to change and get better, even if the immediate result might be a losing season?

Yup, unlike the old days, they spend money now, but they don't spend it wisely.

What's over the top? Asking for effort? I'll say it again, you've gotten too used to losing.

Well they tanked the right way, but they also won the lottery. So here's the question to ponder, if we'd won that lottery would we be a playoff team OR would Eichel be tearing up the league in Edmonton?

It's not that they lost that matters as much as the fact that after losing bad, they came out with a no effort stinker. It's the culture and the attitude that has to be changed. If these guys quit this easily, they need to go. The stupid expansion team is better than us right now - that's ridiculous. Eichel says its a "must win" and then has zero shots on goal and I watched him quit skating on the back check several times. So who was leading us to the must win Jack???? I know Housley is a new coach and he wants to win the room, but my own feeling is the law has to come down. JBot should publicly state that Housley is the boss and the players need to play and anyone who doesn't will not wear the jersey. After that, Housley has to sit every quitter on the team even if it means we play the Amerks. They still don't respond they get train tickets out of town and we start over. Not for a "tank" but for a new attitude. Sometimes, an early road trip turns the tide. So this is it. But if it doesn't turn with this trip, the season's over, it is always tough to make up for a bad start and this team will not do it. So in that case, purge it all.

It's not overblown or an overreaction. I think Sabres fans are getting too used to losing much like the players. When they get down they quit, when the fans get down they make excuses. Demand more.

Plus minus stats listed in this article are rather telling. http://buffalonews.com/2017/10/09/mike-harrington-sabres-big-names-coming-woefully-small/

Well if money is an issue for you personally I can see that, but personally I have enough so a tv package isn't a big deal. I like hockey, and if they suck really really bad I'll start watching other games with better teams and good match ups and whatever seems entertaining like I ended up doing last year. Not going to deprive myself of sports I love because my team sucks. (Can't speak to the Bills situation cause I'm not a fan of them - go Steelers :)) You're right though, people have to stop going to the games and the team has to know enough is enough. The excuse making has to stop.

I didn't realize ROR is making $9 million this season. That is ridiculous, even if he was playing decently. Murray really screwed up this team. And now Jack will have $10 million a year. Coaching isn't going to help, if these guys don't play to earn that money this team has zero chance of improving at all, and you wont' even be able to trade them if you wanted to.

Not true, there are always former coaches out there with huge egos who will think they can come in and be the messiah. The only thing that'll happen is they will demand 4-5 year deals, but they will come. You can blame the coach maybe for some disorganization or some bad line match ups, but you can't blame him for a lack of effort and quitting. This is not a new Housley problem, this has been the team identity for years. CallawaySabres has the right idea, but facebook posts aren't enough. You guys that live in Buffalo should organize a protest, get some media coverage. Demand better. Just demand effort! Until the fans stop going to games and demand more, this train of excuses will keep going off the rails.

Before you back the bank truck up to Kane's door note the stat that at the end of the 2nd period in the last game, despite his offensive efforts, his plus/minus was -4.

Don't agree but not going to keep arguing it. Bottom line problem for us is that the system don't work for us cause almost every shift 1 or 2 guys screw up or quit on the play and the whole thing consistently breaks down. It's a mess, but I don't blame Housley because I simply don't think he has enough to work with.

Not true. The way they call the penalties now and the way they enforce the rules doesn't allow much in the way of intimidation, there's nothing cyclical about it, it's been slowly going that way for quite a while like it or not. Sure, if you are fast enough you can try to shadow a star player and you can annoy him, maybe even throw him off his game, but the fast teams will win in the playoffs now.

Housley's transition game is more reliant on the D yes, but the Leafs are not playing a cycling game like you said. They are better at possession than us but again, that is because we aren't executing the system. If we were, it would look more similar.

We look like we will be so bad we will have to unload him because 1) you can't count on him being this good on a bad team AFTER he signs a big contract and 2) he won't want to sign with us long term anyway. Honestly, we are so bad any player who willingly wants to sign a long term deal with us is probably motivated more by money than by winning.............wait a minute......oh crap.

No, that isn't true. Watch closer. I can't be 100% sure what Housley wants since we really haven't seen it executed properly but from what he has said, and what I see the leafs doing, it isn't very different.

Leafs are basically playing Housley's system. It's not like he has invented something unique and new.

A state of the (dis)union type post seemed appropriate for post 200. You can put it in ALL the threads if you want, cause really, there is nothing else to say.

Talk and debate and argue, this guy's bad, that guy's bad, it's his fault, no it's not it's the other guy etc etc but the truth is simpler: they are just not any good. Just finished watching the Leafs Hawks game and it was very depressing. Everything you wished we were, everything you thought we'd be. Fast exciting game with teams that never quit. The centrepiece scores the winner in OT. We are SO FAR AWAY from even being close to these teams it is ridiculous. Another simple point of wtf's wrong with them. Look at most teams that are improving or trying to improve. How many rookies or young former farm guys on their rosters from last year? Boston has 4 I think, Flyers have 3 or 4. Go around the league and see. Now look at our roster, where the only new bodies are cast offs and guys from trades. Antipin is the only one. Years of squandered and bad draft picks along with the lost lotteries gives you this, whatever this is.

Mentioned this in another thread but worth saying again. Anyone who watched the Leafs Hawks game tonight will quickly realize that makes us look like amateur hour. We are nowhere near either of those two teams. Not even close.

Total disaster sounds about right.

I have to think his play is motivated by wanting a contract. Thus he is one of the only guys not quitting. This works for us either way so don't sign him until the deadline or trade him for a lot then (assuming he keeps it going).