Curt

Thanks for participating. I think your definition runs closer to my thought that the “best” 31 C’s in the league should be considered 1Cs. And I agree that it makes total sense that a team without an “elite” 1C may not consider it a team strength. Not every 1C is going to be someone that you actually WANT to be your best C. After a quick glance, one guy that I would add to your list is Hertl. I think he has met your criteria over the past couple years.

That’s what makes it funny.

I don’t know what others consider to be a 1C. And as of yet, no one has taken up my question. For example: IMPO, if Cozens hits near his ceiling, 60+ pt, 2-way C who can play in any situation, I think that is a 1C. It seems most disagree, and would call that a 2C. So I ask, what are people’s yardsticks for being a 1C?

I think that you could offer 1 million for 5 years and Lazar would agree. He hasn’t done anything to justify a $2M salary, or 5 years honestly. What do you see?

I get that having a player on the team already can help when trying to resign him as a UFA, but Johansson is going to be a UFA. Guerin probably would have a chance to sign him next offseason anyway. If he does resign, it looks like a case of both teams getting what they needed.

Just so everyone knows, it took great restraint for me to not be the one who did this.

I think you mean that the now is important, because the future is definitely the future. 🥴

Sure. But I never said that the draft pick would be a more useful player for a cup contender by 2022. You implied that by making a trade like that you were not actually losing any future value because the 25 year old player you are getting is still pretty young. I replied that it is not true and explained why you are losing longer term value in both years of team control and salary costs. I agree that it would be a trade for near term benefit, while incurring a longer term cost. I also think that there are often other ways to acquire a player that can help in the near term, while having less of a long term cost. Whether a trade like that is worth the long term cost also all depends on the specific player being acquired, of course.

Well what a thing for Adams to do to a “friend”. Hehe. That’s cold.

Where did Friedman report that the Sabres will have a $70M internal cap? I haven’t seen that anywhere. Also, Dahlin man.

Compare these two. 25 year old guy, on a $5M, 3 year contract, then is a UFA after 2022-23 season. 2020 1st, makes the league in 2021-22, is making only ~$1M until the 2024-25 season, is under team control until something like 2028-2029 The draft pick is literally an asset that you will control longer into the future and for a cheaper price point than that 25 year old. That’s all I said.

I agree. Really it all depends on the specific trade. It would need to be a good young player who is a really good long term fit. Monahan in particular, is not a good fit.

Yeah, sure, I would say most NHL coaches do deploy their lines in terms of matchups, or at least take matchups strongly into consideration. But Krueger isn’t going to deploy Lazar exactly the same as he would Larsson, just because they are both on a checking line. McCann could also be centering a line with defensive/checking utility, and replace some of those mins/matchups. And having an acceptable 2C changes how the 2nd best scoring line might be used. Krueger only had 2 lines that were fulfilling their role last season. If he had more, maybe he would have used them differently.

This made me laugh because it’s very professionally, sharply written with lots of professional businessy phrases. Then you ended it with more smartly. Lol Also, I disagree that the future is now, because although time is a construct, it’s one of the basic rules that we live by. Now is now, the future is the future. If you are taking assets from the future and using them now, it leaves less for the future.

I know I caused a major tangent. It wasn’t personal, but I acknowledge that it probably did take away a little from your thread. I do want to take a second to say thank you for bringing this to the board. We/I do value people who hear directly from interesting sources “on the inside” and take the time to share it here. I am glad that your scout friend thinks so highly of Cozens. It echoes what most scouting sources have been saying, so it’s encouraging. When he was drafted, I had some concerns about his ultimate upside as a playmaker, and even wondered if he may end up being better suited as a RW. He is more a straight ahead, direct player than creative playmaker. I think he has improved as a playmaker/passer a little, though he probably will always be a bit more of a direct, shoot first guy. Cozens is definitely big, very good skater, plays 200 ft game, high compete, very good shot. Passing/playmaking I still think are the question marks. Will they be just ok, good, or very good? Either way, the total package is looking good.

Got it. 1Cs are elite C’s, or very good C’s who are clutch for your favorite team. 😁 I challenge the board to tell me, who are the #1Cs in the league? And/Or, What makes a player qualify as a #1C? Because I guess I just don’t know.

Compared to Cirelli and Tierney? Would be very surprised if the puck at 8 OA is in the lineup

I’m actually going to say that high quality players who have a high work ethic and work to keep themselves in top shape into their 30’s very rarely have a dramatic drop off in ability, but rather that a slow decline is the norm.

Sure, but Larsson didn’t play normal 4C minutes. Lazar probably would. Stall/McCann would take up a lot of those mins that Larsson played.

Looks like a franchise starting QB or elite 1C to me. He can be whatever he wants to be looking like that.

Are Brees and Flacco still good, who is Keenum. I don’t know fooseball.

My opinion, McCann. Young, 200 ft player, upside for more offense. Could possibly be 2C/middle-C and take on a reduced 3C role if/when Cozens really gets going. Long term piece.

This isn’t what everyone keeps telling me though. I keep hearing that only the 10-12 elite C’s in the league are 1Cs. Let me ask this then, and I do it in the heart of friendly discussion, really, how can I tell if a player is 1C quality? How many 1Cs are there in the league right now?

Taro brought up the QB thing, so I just went with it. Its fine. It’s just a pet peeve of mine. I am sure that most scouts would dismiss my opinion. It’s the lexicon that they use and it works for them, but it’s also not at all intuitive or logical. I honestly think that it is just carryover from a much smaller league. They probably just kind of kept characterizing player quality using the same terms. I think it is out of date.

I’m not saying that elite C’s or Franchise QBs don’t exist. Im saying that it is silly to say that Trent Dilfer wasn’t a starting QB, because scouts say there are only 10 starter level QBs in the league. Would it make sense to call the 10 franchise QBs, starting QBs, and call the next 20 best QBs backups? Because that’s basically what’s happening with 1Cs here. Im saying that some of those very good, but not elite C’s are also 1C caliber players. Just not elite 1Cs. If you mean elite C, just say elite C. Not all good 1C qualify as elite (top 10-12), but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t 1Cs.