Trettioåtta

Bernier was traded months later for a 2nd and 3rd, the second become Torres and the 3rd became McNabb

We got Ennis, McNabb and 20 games of Torres for Campbell - that is about as good a return as you will ever get I think

Okay, let me put it another way. The year before their awful season they lost leadership - the players you mentioned barely played, you can't be part of the core by playing on the bench - if we bought out Leino this offseason, it wouldn't change the on ice team at all because he wasn't part of it. Furthermore, trading Foresberg wasn't reshaking the core, it was making the logical decision - he refused to commit to them long term, so they shipped him out before he was lost for nothing. Kukkonen was a place filler, he was as much a part of their core as Sulzer is to ours. I also think trading Sekera would not be a major shake up move. A shake up to me would be them trading Knuble, Gagne and Foresberg (even if he wanted to resign). Firing the GM and coach is standard on a failing team. We have done one so far, and I would expect us to do the other unless he makes some good moves at the deadline. I agree perhaps my minor tweeks comment was going too far, it would be fairer to say they recovered without making a major shake up. They didn't have to blow the team up to recover form it

People really only use stats to determine value. They forget Howard's stats are mediocre despite playing behind a 4 time winning Selke player and the greatest D-man of all time for half the game

Haha - I missed that :P

Are you an architect? Random find otherwise?

18-6-4 gives us 55 points and a 93% chance of the playoffs 16-8-4 gives us 51 points and a 18% chance of the playoffs

Out 06 Primeau - He only played 9 games for them and he retired (but he was team captain) Desjardins - He only played 45 games for them and he retired (and only 90ish over the last 4 years for them) Handzus - In theory he was traded for a similar player in Calder - not too different to the recent Cole for Ryder trade Johnsson - He was lost to FA but he only played 47 games for them and only played there for one year, not a major piece of the puzzle This gave them a lack of leadership, admittedly, but they also signed Foresberg. Side note, this team lost basically nothing but leadership and a year later they sucked - yet our fans want to trade both our leadership and best players. This way we can create a positive mental attitude in our prospects when they come to the NHL and lose for 3 years In 06 Calder - Again, I don't really see this as a shake up (however, he was younger and riskier than Handzus) In 07 Zhitnik - Gained in a trade and selled him for more when things didn't turn around in their season Coburn - Good piece of the puzzle to get, young and able to build around Kukkonen - Nothing worth talking about Biron - Traded for a second rounder, nothing all that special for a back-up who can carry the team a bit if he has to Out 07 Meyer - He is a sort of Brennan character, drafted and only really played when he was 24/25 Forsberg - He was a pending UFA and the season was lost it obviously made sense to trade him, not a major shake up as it didn't shake the core Zhitnik - Was there for 2 months, not a major piece of the puzzle and never was, they basically traded Meyer for Coburn and a 3rd - very good trade Calder - Went back to Chicago, clearly didn't work out - not a major piece to lose Offseason 07 This is when the more import moves came, I would argue literally the only roster shaking move they made was Foresberg, and that was lucky that they had him on their roster - we dont have anyone like him on ours. He was a UFA piece not a core piece. Similar to Marrian Hossa on the wings 09 team. They Meyer for Coburn was a good trade, but nothing major, it would be similar to us indirectly trading Brennan for someone like Josi from the preds - this is a really good move, but i'm a little confused how they managed it - maybe it was like the trading a paper clip for something marginally better then trading that for something even better until you get to a car So far, they lost their leadership who didn't really play anymore, then they tanked, they tried to right the ship by trading a spare part for a vet, that didn't work so then they traded their star player they got through FA 1.5 years ago (who wasn't going to resign) and then they traded the vet for a promising rookie. Really they didn't do much in my mind - nothing shook the old gore (Knuble, Gagne etc) or the new core (Richards, Carter etc.) However, in the offseason they signed (basically through FA) Briere, Timonen, Hartnell - this was very big, it reshaped their offence but it was really good because they were pieces of the puzzle that were lacking. They also traded a young offensively gifted, defensively lacking D man and an over the hill LW for an old vet D-man to address their lack of leadership and a promising young winger. So yes they had a lot of turn over, but it was often with real spare parts. Moreover, it was through FA that they made the real changes to the roster. B, T and H became leaders in the room and made them better. However, it was the offseason when all this happened, it wasn't like they decided to tear down what they had and start from scratch

Myers - 3 goals, 1 assist, 2 game-winning-goals, -6

I watched the last couple of minutes of this game. I have to admit, the Pens fire wagon brand of hockey is exciting to watch

Solid win. Their legs moved and they killed the penalties. Maybe this helps Myers confidence - he was a lot better in the third. Grigo and Hecht both had about 5mins of ice. But I thought they both made some nice plays - but I can see what they mean about Grigo watching the game

Stamkos has 8 shots tonight

So Vanek's too lazy to even take his own penalties now?

Myers gave the puck to him and then broke the play up nicely. He hasn't been great, but I don't think he's been that bad to be honest. Couple stupid mistakes (the 2 penalties and the stupid shot), but nothing too bad

Cheer up sunshine! Well we might escape this period...

Boston - A hated division rival. I think you talk both Subban and Hamilton for him - do they have the cap space for it? That would be a large chunk of change for Vanek. Hamilton is meant to be pretty damn promising Chicago - I'm not sure you get Kane unless we over pay a lot. They need a goalie, but there are easier ways to get one than give up your most offensive weapon. Not mention cap space problem again Vancouver - I'd be shocked if they traded Schnieder, he is their future in goal and I think Vanek/Enroth is a lot to pay for him. If Schnieder nets Vanek/Enroth, Miller nets a huge sum Columbus - They will get another face of the franchise soon. They have sucked for so long, no point changing it up now - if you are going through hell, keep going Florida - Again, I just don't see the incentive to do it. Markstrom is learning well and would give them a goalie for 15 years rather than 5 Edmonton - This could work, they have a lot of players, they loved Vanek and they could use a good goalie Minny - Again, could work, they have paid to become players and they have a stacked cupboard. Bu again, in my mind it all depends on what we get back

I think they are very similar to Lecavalier - so behind Stamkos and St Louis. But a debate could be have for what order those three (P, V and L) would be in Are you high? Myers made a couple of mistakes, but it also made some nice plays. Brennan is just flat out awful

haha classic

Same. Last time i swore i wouldn't do it..

Just because someone can get you a younger asset doesn't mean you trade them. It is about what is better for the team now and in the future. We already have a lot of young guys, we need some veteran presence in the top 6. I don't see why it matters how good a skater he is? He nets 68 points on average and kills penalties? I know which two of those 3 skills i'd pick. Miller won't bounce back from what exactly? He has played amazingly over the last 50ish games. What is it he is meant to be bouncing back from? Vanek is a year younger than Pommers, not exactly night and day is it. Not to mention Vanek's style of play probably means he has less time at being effective than Pommers (he takes a lot of hits and is injured a lot of the time, conversely, Pommers is an ironman. We have no goalie prospects and there are few properly decent young goalies who aren't already spoken for (Schneider and Bernier are the only two that come to mind - maybe Subban as well). I really don't get this logic of we have players who have hit their prime let's trade them now for young players. Having a top 6 that consisted of Vanek, Coho, Armia, Ennis, Foligno and another young guy isn't a recipe for success. Furthermore, when our issue is defense, it makes even less sense to trade a defensively responsibly player. I have no problem with trading Miller, Vanek or Pommers - but i say to teams, you want them, give me a king's ransom. Also one other point - who exactly are we trading them to? Everyone jsut yells trade them for picks and prospects, never specifics. Why would a struggling team want to trade their future for some vets and what top tier talent would a long-time contender have to trade? Trading Roy made this team drop from a bubble team to a bottom feeder; i fail to see how trading the other players truely helps us. The Flyers went from 56 to 95 points in one season without really making any major changes, just retooling a little. I think we can do the same

Montreal Canadiens have traded forward Erik Cole to the Dallas Stars in exchange for forward Michael Ryder and a 2013 third round pick. Weird deal. The Stars get older and an under performing player, whilst Ryder is performing well, and they gave up a draft pick. The stars best hope they win the cup this year, half their top 6 is 35+

Can I be there for delivery/ride shotgun? clauses can only cover what would have otherwise been unrestricted free agency years

I don't know if you know this, but they have done studies that showed people remember where to get the information rather than what the information was. They attribute this to the internt and the fact that it is easier to remember the steps you took to get the information than the detail of the information. At what point does PDO stop becoming luck? e.g. vancouver has been top of the PDO last 5 years, which isn't surprising because they have good goaltending and good shooters

Good idea. I wouldn't mind doing the leg work for it, but i'm not sure it is possible to score it objectively. It is obvious you would need 3 different scales for goalie, defense and offence - but how do you compare a two way forward to an offensive player. i'd much rather have a 50 point scorer who was +20 than a 70 point scorer who was -20, but the system would only allow classification one way. Also goalies royally screw the system, as I have the view stats are very untelling for a goalie's performance (e.g. Miller vs Howard)

Yup. Also the fact that they said we need to get bigger and tougher and now we are a slow team